Talk:Gyroscopic exercise tool/Archive 1

Stuff below from Dynabee
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rracecarr (talk • contribs) 02:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Aviod self-references
Removing "Since this page is explicitly for Dynabees, it should only address the original design and not later derivatives." again. See Avoid self-references.

Some science behind the thing:

Journal of Applied Mechanics -- June 2000 -- Volume 67, Issue 2, pp. 321-325 On the Dynamics of the Dynabee D. W. Gulick, Graduate Researcher and O. M. O'Reilly, Assoc. Mem. ASME, Associate Professor Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-1740

Other questions:

Despite claims to the contrary, many on the market seem to be identical. Just rebranded versions from the same source in Taiwan? No USA! See this ! Here but in German some reality from a German Uni So please don't keep saying and asking wich was first and real and so on, you can all read this or translate it if you care.! The first device for commercial use was the Brand Dynabee. The pictures they changed into that of a Nanosecond powerball wich is not correct?!

Who/what is behind recent surge in interest?

What real improvements have been made to these things (not just the LEDs and other gimics introduced in patents like 5800311)?

Are there any studies on the putative benefits of these things (I doubt it)?

80.0.181.93 23:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC) -


 * Hi. As it was said in the article, Dynabee was the first powerball on the market. It wasn't that good as the current powerballs but that doesn't matter for now. Let's say for example it could achieve only 6000rpm. After some time passed, the NanoSecond company started producing their NSD Powerballs, usually reffered as the "Powerball". They are the successors for the DynaBee project, since it's the only company, which produce powerball under original patent and with the latest improvements, created by NanoSecond itself. If you like to split the articles for the DynaBee product and Powerball - do so, since after your change the patent information, the rpm record, and many other options are not right. -Dmitrek 09:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The Dynabee Turbo Pro still on the market is the most powerfull from durable plastic and last ( also proven) for years. ( and reaches rpm above 8000 and yes it can much higher also but around the 8000 is the common speed for training!!) Somewhat bigger and more weight so more power ( see the formulas for this) then any other plastic powerball. Also there are Ironpower powerballs with a German steel rotor wich have more weight and therefore more power.

So the thing said above is not true at all. Only that Dynabee models don't have counters yes that is. Nanosecond powerballs are not reffered as "the powerball" because of legal terms and said by a judge also. ( the first on the market was yes that's true the Brand Dynabee and therefore you can say that the dynabee is "the powerball" but they don't because of respect for the description term "powerball" that is free to use for any other brand and gyro device on the market)

Most of it you can read in some articles on websites and lawsuites that has been in the last 2 years.


 * Dynabee Turbo Pro could reach over 8000 RPM, while NSD Powerball (even the regular models) can exceed 14000 RPM, and the current world record is set on the NSD Powerball. Ironpower is again - just a copy. Why? It doesn't have a metal finish, it copies an NSD Powerball 350Hz, and it still (again!) doesn't have a counter. So, I want you to stop changing the article to older information - there must be a cooperation, not a counter-operation in Wiki. I and the other editors added lots of information to this article, and I want this article to be expanded, not shrinked for some egocentric reasons. If you have read everything I've wrote before, you'll see, that current information about NSD Powerballs is real and up-to-date. Thanks for reading! Dmitrek 23:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Why telling that others are copy's from nsd and so on when dynabee is the first gyro and ironpower is the first metal gyro? . If you look up the real patents and dates you see that NSD has copied the most important parts from dynabee. ( the principe of gyro effects the shapes and so on ) And ironpower is not a copy of nsd ( yes because of the counter that is not on the ironpower!) wich is the only real part nad has the patent!! Look in the patents for that.

If you explain dynabee its not ok to make en say things that are not through because the turbo pro last much longer than nsd and also can reach more rPM that only depends of the user. Yes the marketing of nsd make it more beautiful to mention a higher RPM ( turbo pro is talking about the RPM that is for average user and healty because the higher RPM's can "damage" your wrists muscles if not trained well and this warning you can see in manuals and so on!) The turbo pro is also bigger ad therefore more powerfull and so on. But anyway this as you told yourself is not the place to compare so why from the start you do that with lies that in articles ( from universatity's and lawsuites) and in court are proven to be lies!

So the talking is over dynabee wich are powerballs is not ok to make marketing here for other brands with lies about very much. Dynaflex is not the manufacturer of dynabee that is variety plastics they started in the 1970's with production and again in the early 90's. ( the orginal owner/licensehoder of the old patents from mishler also with generator! nr 5353655 from 1994 before Nanosecond even was there and the other patent is from 1973 mishler / dynabee patent nr 3726146) So the numbers patents and dates speech for themselves. The extra Nanosecond has done is the patent with the counter but that is no successor from dynabee only an extra option!!) Variety is now a part of Dynaflex but dynaflex has there own models powerballs that Nanosecond has copied to Ironpower is from metal ( the outershell is allu/metal and thats metal to!) The steel rotor is from very high quality RVS ( German Edelstahl) so what you are talking about?

Please stop this nonsens.

Because of the outdating old dynabee/mishler patents its free to produce powerballs for others with that principe thats why nanaoseond startet but not only nanosecond a lot of others. Therefore all copy's from dynabee principe if you read the patent info's. Thats OK but then only saying nanosecond is .... and so on is not the complete latest info look f.a. the Ironpower thats on the market for a few years now the first real metal powerball on the market! And Gyrotwister and so on. You Dimitri likes to bring this as marketing for the nsd and not with real facts only degrees others and with marketing talk about nsd to have them be better and so on. They are not better but yes they are good ( as you do here to in marketing and saying bad things about competitors) The isssue is here dynabee and the principes of powerball gyro's As you see the link that's in german to ( http://www.powerballeu.com/powerballdynabeeuitvinding.pdf ) and this one on page 5 from houston horizon ( this part is abused throug people that are saying nasa has developed the dynabee) http://www.aiaa-houston.org/newsletter/feb01/feb01.pdf proves what i said about al this, so also not correct to made these dissapear for the readers

There are a lot of brands and models from a lot of other manufacturers! not only nsd! Prove that you are trying to damage others is in the top of this txt you say first that it reaches only 6000 RPM after that you say 8000 and so on. So for editors clean this mess up to real info and not this marketing from a nsd person!! Lawsuites have also proven that other nsd persons which where talking bad about dynabee had to place a rectification because they where so wrong!


 * You know, there is no nonsense in here. As I've mentioned in the article, dynaflex and nanosecond holds all the major patents for powerballs. There is a workaround of these patents by the other companies and people, but I am not talking about it - I am talking facts to you. Check the patent information provided in the article and see for yourself. Your "prove" that I am damaging something is nothing - I told you information from the official internet sites of these products. When you've told me about "turbo" model, I saw that it can achieve 8000RPM. For example, I can almost achieve 13000RPM with my powerball, and I am just a normal and regular person without any special training or skills. And again, the lifetime warranty for powerball talks for itself, isn't it? The article from "houston horizon" says the same thing - about the first inventor of Powerball. Speak facts, and stop harming the article with your imagination. Thank you. Also, you can try to reach me via ICQ - 499117, and try to argue there. Dmitrek 13:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes you say achieve 8000 rpm it also say that that is not the maximum. Also the German prof tell the speeds could reach far beyond 10000RPM in the article Why 8000 its a 'kind of common training speed not trying to get max speed, the purpose training your arms and wrists not hurting them! ( that why also on nanosecond powerballs manuals the warning if you feel pain stop stop !) ( we have an medical expert (therapist) report of this that say's not to get that max speeds for a longer time because its not giving you the power that you can reach by training short periods with less speed, only for fun and competetion yes max speed but as in top sport it can damage your muscles for a short period ( i don't know the English term for it) Overdone is overdone and not good at all. Lifetime warranty is for all of these products? You say also that ironpower is copy that is not true because it was the first metal on the market in 2004. Dynaflex is not the holder of the patents, the original patents of the gyro principe's are outdated yes and therefore some changes as nanosecond has done with the counter but thats it. Please stop saying nanosecond and dynaflex are the only real ones and manufacturers as told the first was variety plastics. There is also a old model patent out of holland 1994 and so on believe me that was the date that i started to practice with dynabee models that are all still alive now so more then 12 years and still working. More power also because the turbo pro has larger measurements and weight as you can see in the Houston formulas that means simple more powerful! All people testing these two the nsd and turbo pro agrees with me. A judge did to so why keep on trying to make some stories that are not that important to the facts of the principe explaining in wiki of the powerball gyro exercisers concept. And stories about succesors and so on thats only marketing commercial bullshit ( sorry for that word) and has nothing to do with the prinicipe and explanation of the gyro power effects. Thats also why the links of these explanations though German and English should be staying in the article, because they are neutral and real! ( from university people and profs) Scratch all the names of brands or name them all, not giving credit to brands that have copied the principe from the gyro because patents outdated and they used it to make only little changes as you can read in the university article so they can keep on saying we have the only patented gyro wich is not through because if so there was no possibility for others at all. That also where on the Market before Nanosecond was. Yes there are others saying we are the succesors as for example the manual powerball says.

Its simple every little change are extra options and not doing things with the real first gyro powerball principe of a rotor in a shell that is turning arround his two axis
And the first on the market with that patents was dynabee and still is, dynabee give others space to produce after outdating the patents, and then people as you are saying that some options as counters are that important that they can be called succesors? Then every new automobile from wich brand does not matter? is a succesor of the one before also if it's from another brand and therefore better. You know yourself that that is not correct, only small things are changing in the cars to, between models and brands, but they still are cars. To call a new porsche the succesor of the mercedes car before that is the same false statement. Yes the porsche can have some options the mercedes don't have, but doesn't make it the better car. Only for some purposes yes it could be! But not for all try to do a lot of shopping or have some passengers in it? Yes for the same models from the same brands they can call them succesors so new audi a4 for the new audi a4 but that is also no succesor in the way of new invention of the principe of the car itself only in design and options it could be. ( and we all know newer doesn't always means better!)

I hope you understand now why calling brand or/with models, succesors can be so wrong, if the basis prinipe is still being used only with some extra's and for the principe of working though minor options.

Please try to read the complete german part and also the patents themselves from 1973 and 1994 then you read the newer ones and you see yourself! What is major patent? a counter as option no it is not dynamo with leds no because it was there in 1994 before Nanosecond did patented this in 2001 and so on. The only major patent is the principe of the rotor in the shell and so on because thats the part that give the working power to these products and these patents are whoever names are on it outdated. Therefore calling brands after the first real inventor and commercial use dynabee is ok as you name them all and not talking bad of them or others or make a lot of marketing stuff, because wiki is not for this reason!!!!!!!! ;)

Also read the above 2000 sience of Gullick that the explanation of it then saying that others as nanosecond has made some extra options as counter for it yes ofcourse that is through and OK Others as Ironpower has made the first metal version on the market yes thats through. Others as manual power has made a model with a kind of powerplant for mobile phones yes thats through.

I hope because your english is much better you can review and change your part a bit so that it will be respectfull for every brand and the real first inventors. Without marketing or commercials in it Then ofcourse i wil not change it, and the result a good complete Wikki about Dynabee is for every one there ;) Dynaflex was not there in 1973 and 1994 that was variety plastics, later a former employee of variety grounded dynaflex made som copies of the dynabee and now is working together with variety So also the part that the original dynabee inventor is dynaflex is not through you can see the websites in wayback machine on internet that Dynabee and Dynaflex where compatitors in the past. Dynaflex was about the first that made coppies of the dynabee in taiwan/china where also then the cooperation with Nanosecond started. as for your information. We had good connections and contact with Ken Pravitz the owner of Variety plastics and Dynabee before he died, out of respect for him the wiki info should be correct and that also why i  place this reaction. ( he brought this invention in the 1970's and 1990 to the world)

Most of it you can read in some articles on websites and lawsuites that has been in the last 2 years

Powerball safety and VWF
Does anybody have any information on the Powerball as a source of harm from vibration white finger - a condition developed from excess contact with oscillating machinery?

Seems like it might not be a wise thing to spend too much time using. Are there any health warnings to this effect? Shouldn't there be? I sense a future class action here...
 * I agree. Any serious medical information about the Powerball should be referred to here. 87.64.8.165 (talk) 14:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Stuff below from Powerball
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rracecarr (talk • contribs) 02:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Assumed to not previously been in a section
I've created this page to avoid wiki-wars in Dynabee section - there is someone trying to break this page all the time.

Added lot of information on the powerball subject, new metal powerballs, new world records and so on. Johnthenerd 00:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 25 kg of torque can't be correct - the SI unit for torque is N·m

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_derived_unit Johnthenerd 00:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)johnthenerd

World Records
Maybe this could be cleared up in the article - How is the "world record" 16,000RPM, when there's a video (of the same guy no less) going over 20,000RPM? Fruitbatnt 19:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

This is another mode of counting. First mode (16000 rpm) is "highest speed", second mode is "total revs in 90 seconds", so it's not RPM but just 20000 revs. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

dmitrek You are wrong above, the record is 20k, here is logic: 20k revs in 90 seconds ? the record 16000rpm would be as much as 1440000 revs in 90 seconds. 20k revs in 90 seconds is — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.116.89 (talk) 12:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Some questions from the Dutch owner of some powerball Brands
''Its not legal to name others fake. Also if talking about powerball there are more brands so not only the nanosecond powerball. This subject is about Powerball in Common!''


 * No that is not a fake. Nanosecond is the biggest world producer ( but not the only) for Powerballs and holds some of the patents for it - check their page. If, by the mistakes of international copyright laws some other companies were able to produce their "powerballs" (actually, Nanosecond invented this name), they should be considered as the pirate versions. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * '''From the Dutch I warned you before this statement is illegal/ unlawful.
 * Oh please, no legal treats here. It's not unlawful until you can't proof otherwise. There is no proof of Gyro Exerciser called Powerball before the Nanosecond. Point. Dmitrek 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

''No Nanosecond was more then 20 years later then the originals in 1973 that is proven by patents and lawsuites. We have for example a patent ourselves in Benelux out of 1994 that was also years before Nanosecond exists with powerballs! So your remark of pirate is damaging our name!''
 * When do you think NanoSecond has appeared to market? ( in Europe official not before 1998)

''Some importers have to pay by lawsuites a large amount of money because they did this before. Advertisement about extra's as pod...is not allowed by wiki rules''
 * Powerpod is not an advertisement, as you can see, this is an enhancement for the Powerball itself. Please, read the rules, and if you think that I'm wrong with something - call for the editors. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Also illigal statements about fake for HIGH COURT lawsuites proven that they aren't can cost a lot of money for also wiki if this statement stay's
 * High court? Which country, can you please tell me? And the links for that, of course. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

''See the links its in Europe where we had powerballs before Nanosecond existed. The others as Ironpower, Dynabee, Gyrotwister are all legal powerballs and no fake. Some better some not but that is not what this is about''
 * At least, Dynabee, Gyrotwister are not referring to themselves as to "Powerball" Which are better? For example, Dynaflex is the same Nanosecond Powerball, it's been produced by Nanosecond factory and it was clearly stated. Just a rebranded powerball. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * So her you see yourself there are more Brands of powerballs ;)'''
 * There is a single brand for "Powerball"; it's NSD Powerball. Few other powerballs are being produced on the NSD factories, and the others are knock-offs. Dmitrek 02:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Again courtlaws have proven that this is not correct for Europe Benelux court for that is counting for Europe by a EUROPEAN LAW! ( maybe Asia as the powerball word patent is there and not here!!!) ANd Nanosecond did not get the Brand powerball here at all so powerball for the gyro's is in Europe no Brand, As "Nanosecond powerball" "powerballl the orginal" "powerball 250 Hz" "Dynabee powerball "Ironpower powerball" and so on are. Also in Europe other Ball sport and subjects has the name Powerball. ( in Belgian a heavy ballsport i  don't know exactly and powerball as brand for somthing to do with paintball and so on, so the word powerball is not invented by Nanosecond att all.) Look for the word "powerball" as brand in Europe and you see its not a brand for powerballs! But other sports and other things have the Brand word "powerball" inhere

Its not about better because this is only commercial crap also!
 * Yes it is. If you dare to compare, take any no-named gyro exerciser and try for yourself. My own record is 13500rpm, which is impossible for the most gyros on the market. Moreover, there is no counters to counter-proof it. Dmitrek 02:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I not agree but thats the difference of the nanaosecond they have counters but therefore you cant say nanosecond is better yoy yourself can't proof this with the speed you reach because that the patented part that nanoseond have.

''This subject should not be a advertising for one brand! But to explain with examples of brands and so on how people can say thats a powerball to. And the working of powerball Gyro's in common.''
 * And, once again. Powerball is not "one brand" it was the brand created by NanoSecond for their wrist exerciser. Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

''Powerball is no brand at all proven at high court Links in Dutch for prove from that lawsuit http://www.testt.eu/rechtspraak.pdf that we where selling powerballs at the start of 1994 Nanosecond did not existed then at all. And the rectification of a nanosecond importer that buy powerballs before from us http://www.powerball.cc/rectificatie-mill-products.htm The injury warning for practising at high speeds is a University research so also important information.
 * What does it mean "belgian university"? Where is the link for these odd warnings? Dmitrek 19:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * ''Prove link here with some text out of the official independed research You have to pay for the research itself!
 * And so on? First link you gave leads us to some forum without any information. Second link gives us no hint again - it's just some belgium site without any relation to Powerball, requiring registration. Dmitrek 01:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And so on so please cut with the crap as doing only commercial things with this subject!We did prove al the said with independed links, researches, and lawsuites IN that forum is a part out of that research that is copied so there is the info, and for the newspaper to read register then if you like to read it all. The most important part copied with prove is prove enough, so please don't be that.
 * Sorry, but the forum could not be taken as a lead for correct information. Dmitrek 02:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The forum is correct its a short part out of the research that was printed in the paper you have to register that paper for reading, but a direct copy from that part is in the forum, the printing in the paper is the official result of the research.

You only have to read dutch yes but wiki is in more languages so ask a collegae editor to translate because they are no party in this. I did a partly translation but you are saying that i'm lieing?
 * What am I telling, is that THIS wikipedia is english. There are other wiki's you might be interested with your "proofs", German for example. Check [de.wikipedia.org]. Dmitrek 10:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Can't we just have this powerball wikipedia on the product and not it's patents and owners etc?

don't ask stupid questions. everything that is needed, it will be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.166.96 (talk) 01:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Note for editors
There is someone trying to change this page for the commercial purposes. He is using ip addresses of this provider: dialin.kamp-dsl.de or dip.t-dialin.net. Dmitrek 19:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''So yes i do because we won all these lawsuites concerning fake and who is real also readers should see all powerballs if one brand is named the others should to and the real history and information not the so called only one and commercial nonsens about one that was much later then others. The links are and where alsmost al commercial but also with information in the languages for that country's. And yes some from us but also from competitors to have a honest compare. I do not delete links and let only one commercial party stay. As Dmitrek did! I let them all stay til a wiki admin/mod has seen what this is all about, so or all links should be there for info in the native language for the readers and also to give info about other Brands. Or all should be deleted!
 * Look, Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, there are no admins or moderators. All the links you gave are some kind of commercial links,

No i give links with extra information and proof of the statements i make You give links from only one commercial brand and that is really involvement and very commercial abuse to put one brand and keep others from it !?
 * Your "extra" links are leading users to the shops or sites in other languages. As you can see, this wikipedia is English, so the links from here must lead to resources, sites and information in english. That's important. Dmitrek 01:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

''' For proof to be right for wiki editors owners admins and claims other languages are OK because Wiki is in more languages to! ( and there are editors for and in that languages that they can read and translate this if you want ask them, and wiki information should be the through complete and can't have ilegal statements as for example "fake and pirate" that kind of you did more times. Also with the links of independed official proofs wiki editors can check that what you're saying is not correct. Yes we did proved al this in three lawsuites that we won. So please don't cry or that kind of stuff.

''So editors please learn or ask Dutch and German speaking editors to read the links of proof that a lot of nonsens is said by and about only one Brand. That Brand has some minor patents with extra's as the counter if you take the time to read the complete official patents then in the same patents from Nanosecond the are saying wich older patents they used for powerball gyro's principe. ''Only then you can come to the real conclusion that Nanosecond has made some extra features for the powerball Gyro. ''As the name say its a Ball that give Power and this was also before Nanosecond. 


 * Look, "Ball that give Power" is not "Powerball" at all. Don't you see it? Dmitrek 01:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * IS only a example but here in Europe proven by judges and court that powerball is a common name and not a brand. I did place links of that lawsuites so!?!
 * Not in Europe, buy in Benelux, as I guess. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

IN Benulux proven court are also counting for a lot of things in Europe as we are in Germany and Benelux from the start of 1994 so this is Europe and we did proof the things.

''And the proof of not invented by or for NASA only the equation of motion in about 1992 to explain some of the physics see this link for prove of that and one Importer has changed this original ( talking about dynabee) in powerball was invented for Nasa so read it and laugh as we do

''Dynaflex also existed before Nanosecond yes Dynaflex manufacturer is now nanosecond how come do you think? ( because production in Asia is Cheaper then in the USA) ''Because before that Variety Plastics in 1973 had the Powerball Gyro on the Market with Brands as Dynabee, theragrip eezbee and so on and they made them in the USA. ''It was cheaper to produce in Taiwan so therefore Nanosecond.


 * I don't mind if some company existed before - Dynaflex mentioned as original creator for the first powerballs in the article. Dmitrek 01:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Dynaflex owner Tom Smit was a employee of VAriety Plastics ( owner Ken Pravtiz) that has The dynabee powerball from 1973 after he started for himslef in the 90's with Dynaflex made in Asia, so the first orginal is still Dynabee then from Variety!

'So you don't mind this is proof that you also agree that the real powerball gyro principe was there before Nanosecond made some extra features on it with the patents!'''Because a patent could only have parts in it that are complete new, if the product was complete on the market before from other manufactures then they can't patented these products again and thats why nano have only patent for extra's.O yes we did send an email to vandalism@wiki with the proof and they can contact us for more if ..
 * So did I. Dmitrek 01:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Thanks for that

''Because we don't like to be called fake / pirates at all this is done before and they have to pay a claim. ''We where on the Market before Nano exists we don't say Nano is fake or bad Quality they have a good quality also, and yes we are selling Nanosecond Powerballs and other Brands. ''So we have for more then 13 years powerball experience and now a large collection of different powerballs and Brands maybe the biggest in Europe out of the past 14 years.
 * I can't care less as for your collection. Your information, information that you provide, is wrong. Dmitrek 01:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

'''no it CAn't be wrong because we where there ourselves and three/four lawsuites the judges find this is through. So independed research and also official documents with the Stamp in the name of the Queen on can't be Lies!'''
 * I said that because "old" powerball producers now make their Powerballs at NSD factory. Other, relatively new producers are using different holes which helps them to produce and sell powerballs for the local markets. Dmitrek 10:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

We are not selling for local market but for Europe for over 13 years now thats is not local the holes you're talking about were used by Nanosecond themselves because of the olderness of the original patents to change some and for the changes they did become a new Patent
 * I think that you're a little bit over-involved by yourself. If you'll see your own link, I think that you'll realize what do I mean. There were no mention of Powerballs before the NSD. It was called gyro exerciser, gyrotwister - anything but the Powerball. As for the manufacturer, if you'll check most gyro-excersiers available by that time, you'll realize again that Dynaflex or ezbee were not nearly as good as the any NSD Powerball.
 * ( they where also called in the market powerball but then later if its a common name it doesn't matter and nanosecond is a brand as ironpower is as dynabee is as gyrotwister is and so on) Yes involed while you're trying to damage other powerball brands that should not! Others did before, we are protecting our name and products for that also by Law that is complete normal!''' ( and only for this reason i am placing the right info on wike, so if you or editors translate and or place / made all the info true and really complete i have no complains at all.)

I don't agree we had dynabee powerball made in USA working out of 1994. And Ironpower Steel rotor is made in Germany.
 * And again, as for the "minor" patents NSD does have - check this link . What will you say? Dmitrek 01:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Read the reference cited in that Nanosecond patent from the other patents on your own example ;) ( which if you read the other patents did this with more early patents out of 70's and so on to. On that examples from other patents then you see powerball was complete on the market before Nanosecond! Also we have a patent out of 1994 so with the complete shell and Ball in the Benelux in 1994 that proves that Nanosecond was not her at all the picture is a foto of that what do you want more!? You can't ignore that the gyro was complete invented and patented before nanosecond did. ( Nanosecond made some extra's and these things are in that patent)
 * These patents are only describing Powerball. NanoSecond first made computer-balanced powerballs, which became a bestseller for the market. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No that patent if you have the complte one is also saying that others patents are used for this nanosecond powerball and say realy only something of the Nansocond changes to that older patents. These are all in English and you can ask for the patents nr that are cited in the nanosecond patents in the USA.

And see again this prove of a drawing on it from 1993 http://www.testt.eu/powerball-houston-nasa.jpg of a dynabee powerball rotor, there you see then this was so good you don't need a starting cord and so on this was USA so not as you say " a European country in other language he "
 * You can start almost every gyro exerciser with a thumb. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes agree but for then it was new.

As I can see, you don't get my point. I know of other gyro-wrist-exercising devices. I know what was on the market before. But this article is about Powerball, moreover, this article was moved from NSDPowerball article, so please, stop posting your cheap knock-offs here. Without Nanosecond inventions there will be not that Powerball that we know and admire today. No counters (so no Powerball competitions), no metal powerballs, no new constructions, no bluetooth counters - nothing. All you show here to me is some unproven information without factual reference. Dmitrek 10:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

From the Dutch so if "powerball top 100" is so important then it should be a new subject "powerball top 100" ?. It is no legal reason to exlude others and other Brands out of the powerball topic and not at all to call others fake and pirates. read this for other wiki editors only a lot of brand names from powerballs were for Nanosecond on the Market Dmitrek agreed also, thats proving that the invention and odler official patents are from other persons then Nanosecond company.
 * What's the Powerball top 100 you're mentioning? Counters made Powerballs competitive and involves other people. Older Patents, and everything you tell me about does not prove, that Powerball word wasn't invented by NanoSecond. Also, other gyro exercisers (as you can see from your own references) can run only up to 8000RPM, which is two times slower than a Powerball from NSD. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No the refence is saying about agin that no maximum speed, its about 8000 is recomended to practice for the usaul users, not the power users, but if you practice to long at to high speeds you can get injury's 

And metall powerball ( ironpower) was about 2 years on the market before the NANOSECOND version.But you're right Nanosecond is ofcourse an important powerball manufacturer with good extra's as counter. I agree. But this is no reaseon to call others that where before on the Market or has there own inventions fake / pirates or cheap. ( dynabee, theragrip, gyrotwister, manual power, ironpower, turbo pro, supergyro, and so on are all legal original powerballs )
 * I don't think that these are "illegal". What am I trying to say, is that for today, NanoSecond produces better powerballs than any other competitor, have lots of inventions over others, and, actually, this article was about NSD Powerball, until you came to erase big part of this article. If you want to write something about Dynabee or other exercisers - create a new article. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

This is going about powerballs so the other powerball brands should be here if you want a article of a brand then do "mercedes" nd so on

'''Why do you think it was a moveover from nsd powerball because powerball is commonname and there are more Brands! You say yourself that there are before and more, while powerball is a proven common name is one brand misleading for wiki readers, Also i have send you prove of the research and warning in English so don't be that.
 * I can get this as a proof of something. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Yes you can't but its a coppy printed of a official research you have to pay to get the complete, but newspapers with a copy of the parts out of the research did place a rectification because teh print the correct text.

Hello Dmitrek: What you know is one brand thats your fault if you are some kind of blind for the others ? not ours. Prove independed and official have we given more then a dozen pages so!
 * Please, tell me what other brands do have what the NSD Powerball doesn't have covered by it's patents. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Nanosecond has only partly patent on powerballs some parts as the counter, Double dynamite powerball is for example a double powerball that was before nanaosecond powerball was on the market,

Ironpower the first metal has its own disclosu and german made precision steel rotors ans so on also on the market before the iron of nano did Manuel power has a generator to load cell phones and a flash light build in and so on.

ANd the first metal powerball on the market was ironpower and so on in 2004.
 * I can not agree again - check for the patents of NSD. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In that patent nothing from metal is there and the Ironpower is also a different powerball then the patended parts from Nanosecond, Ironpower is bases on the dynabee patents that where to old and made their own improvements to open the ironpowerball and to change the rotor from alu to steel uprade a UEFA verson that is also proof of the very good quality and so on.

Proofs are from university so independend research also from lawsuites with official stamps on it in the name of the Queen! So that is no real proof?! sorry you're realy talking nonsens
 * You've told me about your queen already, sorry. Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * She is a nice Queen ;)
 * May be a best ever. If some documents are stamped with in the name of Queen it doesn't mean that this is a last instance. Dmitrek 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

?? aaa

If there is a wiki subject about bicycle or auto then also not one brand should be there and commercial links to that only one that you do. Also others make extra inventions as ironpower powerball, dynabee double dynamite powerball, manual powerball, and so on
 * Powerball is the word, invented by NanoSecond. You can actually give me any reference of the Powerballs before the NanoSecond. In all your links it was called "gyro exerciser" or in some other ways, but not a Powerball. Like if I was editing an article of "Mercedes" and you get there stating that "there are a lot of other cars on the market!" Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No its auto or automobile and not Mercedes you have to compare the powerball as common name, if the inventor of bicycle or auto was then bicycle or auto as brand but they are also not a brand because of the common use of the words for that products.
 * As you see, the common word is "Gyro Exerciser". Powerball as the name was invented by the Nanosecond. Dmitrek 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes gyro, guro exerciser, wristball, gyroball are as common describing as powerball is

Nanosecond themselves have not taken the powerball as brand because they can't in Europe as said before they have the brand "nsd power" That is so for if you can read no powerball it has only the word power and no powerball at all in the European brand of Nanosecond so if Nano can get that this proofs enough ANother prove is that NANOSECOND did not get the European brand powerball but only "NSD POWER" so they know to that it is a common name. And ofcourse you are right that the Nanosecond powerball is a good powerball but some others are to.

Can you please point me to the other Powerballs that are nearly as good as NSD? Dmitrek 02:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Ironpower Dynabe products ( has a more powerfulle bal the Turbopro this is bigger and therefore gives more power, manual power as the Netherland importer "Mill and pow... europe" says is the "new powerball" with the same quality and so on.

You opinion is OK its yours if everyone can and should have about a product and so on but the subject is powerball and not to lower down some Brands and to praise an other brand that no independed wiki statement wich should.
 * It's not about the brands. Powerball describes a product, which is being produced by Nanosecond. All it's models are called just "Powerballs". Powerball 250hz, Powerball Neon, Powerball 350hz and so on. Without this weasel language. Dmitrek 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

'''ON Wiki you and Wiki can't give a Quality statement compared to others because no real research and compare by any official institute is done so far!! It is only and only a opinion as others prefer ironpower and or and so on.'''
 * Well, you wasn't able to provide me with information on why do you think that word Powerball wasn't invented by NanoSecond. Dmitrek 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

'''Well i don't have to convince you if you are believing things that are not through ist your problem. I have give proof enough for all the other wiki readers that also Nanosecond in Europe can't get the Brand powerball at all is the most simple proof that you can search yourself in the database of the european common brands its is ther in English to so take a look and see ;), also that there are a lot of other Brands and lawsuites, if you did not take the time to learn and read that languages or ask other editors to to  its your problem.

Bur for now you have to wait till they do so!'''

About links: which to allow?
Hello,

As you can see, the link section is constantly growing or modified again and again. This discussion should help to find a final agreement about which links to keep and which to dump.

I really think links to shop websites are not useful for most of people who read the powerball article. They don't yield more information, it's only advertisement. Priority should be given to informative links, as implied by the wikipedia rules. Hope some people will come to support me on this idea.

I will keep the Dynabee website as a link because there are some informations and it's in english, but there is no sense to keep a link to a dutch site(or any other language) on the english version of the Powerball wiki.


 * As for me, I would like to delete dynabee.de - it's not informative, and contains lots of information not in english. And the site - it also looks so outdated! -Dmitrek 14:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

http://www.dynabee.de ( most in English) is the oldest powerball "website" and powerball in Europe so therefore yes old looking but info over powerballs is still actual because only minor changes and metal powerballs like the first full metal http://www.ironpowerball.com ( English language sections on that site to) are made after dynabee has started in the markt to produce powerballs! Therefore as a kind of encyclopedia information the most important to this subject also because of more models and so on.

The links with the proofs of all of this i will post if needed. ( we have a lot of info ) Patents, model patents, lawsuits and so on.

Obiw4n: I think what we need is information about the product itself ( in english only of course) speed max, training methods etc... something which can't already be found on the Powerball article. Forums being the perfect bonuses in links because they bring a lot of answers and interactivity.

Im okay to check any link and discuss with Dmitrek about adding them or not,if Dmitrek is okay with that too... ;)


 * Yes, it seems fine to me - Dmitrek 12:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

trademark is the issue here
Powerball is trademarked (actively) in the US by DynaFlex

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=rm96bi.2.17 http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=rm96bi.2.34

Serial Number: 78103659 Registration Number: 2666631

If there is a different trademark anywhere else in the world, it should also be mentioned. However, legally, it is not a "common name" for a gyroscopic exercise tool. A "hacky-sack" can also be considered a common name, yet it's a trademarked name for a "footbag". "Frisbee" is also a trademark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spikesagal (talk • contribs) 15:25, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This depends how it's used, powerball in the rest of the World is used for many Brands as common name.


 * The trademark in US is not tested on the legal part in lawsuites, as in Europe it is.


 * There is a trademark in Europe for some but there are actions taken against them, and only the term "powerball" is not a legal ::brand in this case. ( it is even forbidden to use this brand as a thread against other "powerballs" by law)


 * With some other brands / name as "nsd power" and so on that could be one because of its uniqueness, "powerball" itself isn't. <--sign your comment!

Everything you just said is baseless, as in not based on any facts. That makes it misinformation, or gossip. Facts should be backed up by legal documents. I'm not sure what you mean by the "...in US is not tested on the legal part...", but if any trademark in the US loses a lawsuit, its status will change to "DEAD" on USPTO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spikesagal (talk • contribs) 21:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

This page reads like a commercial
Shouldn't that be cleaned up? Removing "See dynaflexpro.com for information on how to purchase these items." from the models and manufacturers section would be a pretty good start.Geemer (talk) 04:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it certainly should. And with 3+ year experience with NSD ball * I should have contributed to this article a long time ago.

RPM Sports (a company selling NSD balls under their own brands, e.g. "250 Hz Pro" etc.) and their partners/agents use very aggressive marketing and not just on their site -- for example, check contributions to this page signed "Dmitrek" (an alias of Dmitry Kirillov, working for Gross-Snab -- RPM Sports' Russian reseller).

And it should be cleaned up in several other important aspects as well. One can find a few enlightening discussions on RPM Sports' forum, but they are a very small fraction of total content. Besides, this company has nearly zero tolerance for fact-based discussions ** so let's see what happens here. Watch out for trolls to arrive, as I'm going to let them know I'm going to add some stuff here (good for anyone who seeks unbiased information, but not necessarily good for people who sell them (and I must say I really wonder if they actually use them***)).

-
 * the only one I used, therefore stuff I'm going to add is related to this product, but not necessarily to others.

http://powerballs.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57918&postcount=18 http://powerballs.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66389&postcount=15 And I had one more account banned silently, with several threads of discussion deleted completely.
 * http://powerballs.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38323&postcount=14

Andy Monakov (talk) 09:57, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * in 3+ years of following RPM Sports' forum, I never came across a video of anyone from RPM Sports spinning the ball, never saw it discussed. And yes, I asked: http://powerballs.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66388&postcount=14

Does anyone have any idea whether this thing is any use or just a silly toy? is it genuinely recommended for physiotherapy? I think the article should say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.138 (talk) 12:01, 16 November 2008 (UTC) I made this page from Dynabee and Powerball. I will copy and paste the talk pages from those articles here. Rracecarr (talk) 02:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

commercial
This article focus's only on one product, and overall the tone of the article (gyroscopic exercise tool) seems to have been written by the manufacturer.

Actual evidence on the (none existent) topic is scarce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.191.225.65 (talk) 08:06, 17 April 2012 (UTC)