Talk:Hârn

untitled
I think this page needs some expansion. It doesn't even mention anything on the actual island at all. Not sure what direction I want to take it, so I figured I'd solicit some input first. FrozenPurpleCube 20:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

two Harn or just one?
It would be good if this page detailed the differences in vision for Hârn between Kelestia and Columbia Games. In other words, what separates the offerings from the respective publishers? CapnZapp (talk) 13:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, myself, being interested in Harn I have no idea what the difference is between HarnMaster Gold by Kelestia and HarnMaster 3rd edition by Columbia. I think it is important for this article to distinguish the major differences, because I think that was a major reason that created the split although I'm not 100% sure.  I think the main Harn wikipedia article should have a section about the split, a section detailing the route Kelestia has gone with the franchise, and another section detailing the route Columbia has gone. --Justin (talk) 03:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

N. Robin Crossby / Kelestia Productions vs. Tom Dalgliesh / Columbia Games, Inc
Regarding the conflict between N. Robin Crossby and Tom Dalgliesh / Columbia Games, Inc, Tom put it like this in his obituary at http://www.columbiagames.com/ :

"Towards the end of Robin's life, a rift developed between us that originated with CGI's desire to maintain the status quo and Robin's desire to introduce new elements into Hârn. This rift grew too wide and deep to be bridged. In 2003 we went our separate ways, Robin publishing materials under the name Kelestia Publications. His new work reflected the direction he wished to go with Hârn."

My impression, as a fan and customer for more than 20 years who had email conversations with both of them when they split, is that Robin's frustration with CGI was not that they wanted to "maintain the status quo", but that they were dumbing down his works. For instance, the HarnMaster Core rules were basically a simplified version of the 1st ed. HarnMaster rules, while Robin's own HarnMaster Gold went the other way. Another example was the Harn calendar, with almost exactly 360 days in a year, almost exactly 30 days in a month and ten day "weeks". That's not the Harnic year as Robin conceived it, it's Tom's simplified solution which ended up in the published material.

Robin was a visionary and a perfectionist, while Tom is a pragmatic game publisher who hoped that an "easier" Harn would reach a wider audience.

To some extent, this is reflected in the offerings from the two companies.

Please note that most material from CGI is (at least partly) written by Robin while he was still working with them. Some CGI material is not at all living up to his standards though. E.g. the map in the Menglana Kingdom Module had many village names etc found in maps of Scandinavia. Of course, it's impossible for Scandinavians to maintain the illusion of this fantasy world, if the villages have names that are really the names of towns and cities in their neighborhood. Despite a few glitches, the CGI Harn material is generally of very high standards.

After the split, little new material about Hârn has emerged from CGI. Earlier publications have been reedited or repackaged, and some more sites on the island of Hârn have been described. Kelestia Publications on the other hand, has produced material about areas on the mainland east of Hârn. Not very much though. As always, quality comes before quantity...


 * Thank you! Could I ask one favour though? Please abstain from using words like "dumbing down" - it might be viewed as judgemental, and if your summary comes across as biased, its perceived value will be lowered. I would have suggested "simplified" if you weren't using it already. CapnZapp (talk) 16:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The information about the copyright dispute does not belong in the opening paragraph/section. the opening section should contain an outline of introductory, salient points. If the dispute is deemed noteworthy it should be included in its own section after the body of the article telling us about harn (rather than its publishers) entitled "copyright dispute." Just ny 2d. D-Man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.191.74 (talk) 13:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolution
A quick look at the Kelestia.com and columbiagames.com websites will show that the feud is mostly over. Colombia reprints the old works but points you over to Kelestia if you want to look at expanded materials or ask about new details. I suggest the bit about a continuing dispute be cut as unverified. --71.65.122.122 (talk) 20:40, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Bias Showing
The preceding comments are factually in error. By my count, there are 42 new products from CGI since the split, not counting maps. Six of those are rewrites of old material expanding them in each case by a factor of three to five. Of the remaining 36 new products, Robin Crossby wrote not a word. There are at least four more that will come out in the next quarter, and an expansion of the Kingdom of Rethem is in edit. There have been straight reprints of old material in new layouts, but I haven't counted them above. They would add about ten more products.

There are twelve new products on the Kelestia page. That hardly amounts to CGI is reprinting old stuff and KP is producing new stuff. It seems fair to say that both are producing new products, though KP at a slower rate. Discussions of quality are very much subjective, and should have no place.

The discussion here comes across as very biased. Menglana, the only example cited, was published in 1987, well before any split had occurred, and a mere four years after Harn itself. That there was a difference of opinion over where to take the HarnMaster rules is well known, and Crossby ended up publishing his own version in the late 90s. That time was the genesis of the split which became de facto with his statement in 2003. However, inasmuch as Robin Crossby died nearly two years ago, he is obviously no longer a party to the dispute. However, the split between the two publishers is also obviously still going on, the prima facie evidence being there are still two companies.

Lastly, I see no link on the CGI page indicating that customers desirous of new products should visit the KP site. Factually incorrect. 72.70.73.182 (talk) 18:11, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Harshlands an Online game based in the HarnWorld Universe
My recent introduction to Harn has been through a MUD called Harshlands. I believe this is important to any wikipedia article related to Harn for two reasons. 1. It seems to be the only online game, pc game, or form of interactive entertainment related to Harn. There was a project at a company called Auran to develop a Harn based PC game but I believe it was cancelled. 2. It also seems to have a following in the Harn community as can be evidenced here: http://www.lythia.com/about/harnfaq/ It is discussed in question #22.

However, I've never edited or contributed to wikipedia articles before and this talk page is actually my first attempt at editing anything on wikipedia.

So, I am wondering should there be a section in the main Harn article related to Harshlands, should it appear as an external link, or should there be a seperate Article solely related to Harshlands that is linked to the Main Harn article - or should a combination of 2 or all 3 of those options be used. Thanks for the input and you will have to excuse by wikipedia newbie-ness. Also information about Harshlands can be found on their website: http://www.harshlands.net/default.aspx --Justin (talk) 03:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Rìdíçùlóûš Nàmëš
What's up with every other vowel being accented in place names? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piedmont Bilford (talk • contribs) 19:07, 14 April 2019 (UTC)


 * That is the Kelestia Publications style. 2601:19B:8300:FB30:21E3:C006:B4A9:2D5D (talk) 00:00, 8 March 2020 (UTC)