Talk:HCJB

Untitled
It's nice to see someone do a article on HCJB. I have friends that used to work down there their retired now though. BJK 17:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Notibility
HCJB is notable in several respects and is well known in the ShortWave Listening (SWL) community as well as the Amateur radio community. The popular ham radio antenna, the Cubical Quad, was developed to meet it's needs. It has pioneered several shortwave broadcasting engineering challenges in antenna and amplifier design. This is in addition to it's community service and missionary activities. It is not a "radio program" but a collection of radio stations and hospitals transmiting on WM, SW, FM, television, internet and sat and in many languages. For this reason, I am removing the notability tag. Rearden9 17:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Probable copyright violation
The section "Broadcasting milestones and achievements" appears to be directly copied from this site. --Blainster 23:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Reworking article for a more NPOV
I would like to work on this article for a more Wikipedia-like NPOV. HCJB is notable, for sure, and deserves an article in Wikipedia. I am one who has been touched by HCJB's ministry for nearly 35 years and have a soft-spot for the station. That said, I do believe the article can be better, less of an advertisement, and still get what needs to be said, said - but in a NPOV manner. I ask other editors and/or administrators to be patient while I work on it over the summer. Thanks! SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 05:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Moved extended WRMF/HCJB Global information
I have moved the extended information on World Radio Missionary Fellowship, Inc. and HCJB Global to a new article. The HCJB article is about the radio station and should be more about radio-related and shortwave-related topics. I think this is an improvement and helps the article to appear less as an advertisement for HCJB Global. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 22:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

this really has to stop
The HCJB Page really needs to tell about HCJB Global, who it is, and what it does as an organization as a whole.

This page cannot be purely about just one part of it.... historical English language shortwave broadcasts...  especially when the organization has really changed focus in the last 20 years and since the English department and broadcasts over HCJB in Ecuador actually ended several years ago.

The major problem is that HCJB is both the name of the organization and the radio station's call letters. There is no easy way to differentiate the two... People that want to read about what HCJB is on Wikipedia are going to search for HCJB. They deserve to read about what it is, not just what it was.

And it needs to be accurate.... there are just too many historical errors in the previous version.

Hcjbhistorian (talk) 05:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * FYI: The majority of info in the article has been taken from the HCJB Global webpage (not by me, someone else) and from Clarence Jones' book "Come Up To This Mountain".  You are trying to make this article into an advertisement for HCJB and HCJB Global - that's not what Wikipedia is for.  Your edits have been VERY POV, and that's not what Wikipedia is for, either.  I have been nice, been a little more firm, given you a 3RR warning, and now, I have had to report your reverts and virtual page blanking to the Admin Noticeboard for Edit Warring.  The HCJB article is about a radio station, not HCJB Global - that's why the WRMF page was created.  You are obviously very new to Wikipedia, but please - you need to learn how it works and why it works the way it does before making these types of edits.  I am letting Admin deal with you from now on.  I'm done with this for tonight. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 06:04, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

HCJB vs. HCJB Global
Once again, hcjbhistorian, the article is about HCJB the radio station, not HCJB Global, the corporate entity as a whole. All of the stuff not related to radio should go on the World Radio Missionary Fellowship, Inc./HCJB Global page. Just look at the categories listed at the bottom of the HCJB page - all of them are for radio. Look at the categories listed at the bottom of the WRMF/HCJB Global page, they are not all related to radio. I can put a disambiguation link at the top of the HCJB page to indicate that if there's more information needed about the corporate entity, then that's where the reader should go. There are redirect links already in the article that take the reader to WRMF/HCJB Global article. If someone wants more, it's there. But the fact remains that Wikipedia is not meant to be an advertising service for anyone or anything that is the subject of an article in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia - period. Most of what you included in the HCJB article is considered advertisement and it was NOT NPOV. Flowery words and phrases that are "Christianese" in nature have no place in a secular, NPOV encyclopedia. Also, the majority what you included can be considered original research. If it's not verifiable from a referenced source, it stays out. This is another Wikipedia standard. Articles can always be improved, but if you don't stay within Wikipedia's guidelines, it gets removed.

Did you look at the articles on how to appropriately edit in Wikipedia? If not, you really should consider doing so before you start editing again. I'm more than willing to work peaceably with you on editing this article, but I will be looking at everything you include to make sure it falls within the guidlines Wikipedia has set up. The rules are there for a reason - as you have learned, it's not prudent to just ignore what other, very seasoned editors have to say and the advice they give. I've been around the Wikipedia block more than a few times, and I tried very hard to work with you - you chose to ignore me. I gave you guidelines to follow, you chose to ignore them. Wikipedia is not here for you to do with as you will - please remember that we all have to follow the rules here. I look forward to helping to improve this article with you. And an FYI: I have a soft-spot in my heart for the entire ministry - I was saved through the ministry of HCJB in 1975 when I was 13 years old. I have supported the ministry for a number of years in both prayer and cash donations. I can't, however, allow the sentimental feelings I have for HCJB to creep in to how I edit the article(s) - that would be against Wikipedia's Conflict of Interest policy. It's important you remember to do the same - be sure to do that (and the other things I have stated above), and we will get along fine editing this article together. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 00:28, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation and redirects
Disambiguations and redirects have been placed on both the HCJB page and the HCJB Global/World Radio Missionary Fellowship, Inc. page. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 06:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

what doesn't make sense
(moved from my talk page to here, where it's more appropriate)

Could you be more specific as to what doesn't make sense...

I don't think you understand that the era of shortwave on radio station HCJB from Quito has been ending for nearly 15 years.... and that all non-regional latin america broadcasts ended at least 6 or 7 years ago...   including the ones I listed.... the only ones left were Spanish, Quichua, Portuguese and several local dialects spoken in South America...   The English broadcasts and the English Language service... which most of the article focuses on.... ended a long time ago on HCJB....   HCJB Global Australia is actually a whole different seperate legal entity.

Part of this was a change in focus... part of it was the fact that out entire transmitter site.... including the ground and trees is actually in the approved flight path of the new airport because of the change in elevation...  The site is being dismantled to comply with the government's order to take it down...

"In the mid 1990's, HCJB began moving staff and broadcasts closer to the target audiences. In the following decade most of the traditional broadcasts from Ecuador were transfered elsewhere, including Arabic, English, French, Japanese, Russian and Swedish."

Hcjbhistorian (talk) 01:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * What didn't make sense was the sentence you created...you stated that the "traditional broadcasts from Ecuador were transferred elsewhere" and then listed a bunch of languages. There's no connection between the "traditional broadcast" statement and the list of languages.  You're missing something to pull the two thoughts together - and since I have no idea what you're trying to convey here, I can't fix it, ergo, you have to.  As it is, it makes no sense.


 * As far as HCJB phasing out SW for 15 years - I get it. But as far as HCJB Global Australia being another legal entity - that's fine.  Go ahead and make that distinction either in the HCJB article or the WRMF article or both, if you'd like.  Just keep it concise, NPOV, and your COI in check.  I note that your IP address is in the Colorado Springs area - therefore I am forced to conclude that you are currently with HCJB Global - am I correct?  If that's the case (and hopefully you have read what was suggested to you regarding Conflict of Interest in Wikipedia), then you must be very, very careful how you edit.  Apparently, I am not the only one who is watching your edits in the two articles.


 * So...if you fix the sentence so it makes sense, great - include it. I think it would be an appropriate addition to the article.  Take care. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 01:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I actually am the HCJB Historian.... I was based in Quito from 1993 to 2007.  And I have read thousands of pages of original documents and correspondence both in our own archives and the Billy Graham Center Archives.


 * I don't have a conflict of interest... I have a vested interest... and my purpose in working on this article and others about HCJBis seeing that the content is factually and conceptually accurate and of value to the reader....


 * There is a lot I could add to the page as far as photos and content etc. that would be to the interst of DXers and shortwave enthusiasts....  but it is really discouraging to invest time in it and have repeated and immediate undo's of whatever I text or information I enter.


 * I can provide sources for everything I've written.... Most of which are original documents. But there is no point if it is going to be immediately undone. Hcjbhistorian (talk) 01:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Below is my point-by-point response:


 * I actually am the HCJB Historian.... I was based in Quito from 1993 to 2007.  And I have read thousands of pages of original documents and correspondence both in our own archives and the Billy Graham Center Archives.


 * I don't have a conflict of interest... I have a vested interest... and my purpose in working on this article and others about HCJBis seeing that the content is factually and conceptually accurate and of value to the reader.... 


 * Because you have been with HCJB and are still with HCJB, you do have what Wikipedia considers a conflict of interest. Once again, have you read the page regarding COI in Wikipedia and what you can and cannot do? If you haven't, you need to.  If your conflict of interest becomes an issue once again, POV edits will have to be reported to the COI Administrators.  You may have a "vested interest" in HCJB, but HCJB hasn't bought page space to advertise in Wikipedia (not possible, anyway) and, therefore, you don't have a vested interest in Wikipedia.  Your edits must be for the good of Wikipedia - period.  NOT for the good of HCJB.  Anything edited for the good of the subject of the article is considered COI and POV.


 * There is a lot I could add to the page as far as photos and content etc. that would be to the interst of DXers and shortwave enthusiasts....  but it is really discouraging to invest time in it and have repeated and immediate undo's of whatever I text or information I enter.


 * I'm sure there is a lot you *could* contribute - as long as it remains NPOV and there is no indication of COI. As far as having your edits changed...yes, that can be frustrating, but that is the nature of Wikipedia.  It's also part of learning how to work with other Wikipedia editors.


 * I can provide sources for everything I've written.... Most of which are original documents. But there is no point if it is going to be immediately undone.


 * As long as those sources can be proven - online or published with an ISBN is best - then you are welcome to include referenced information. If it can't be proven by anyone other than you, it is considered original research and is not allowed in Wikipedia.  Violating the No Original Research rule will also get you reported to Wiki administrators and possibly lead to you being banned again.


 * I know it seems like a lot of rules, and I understand your frustration - but the rules are there for a reason. Follow them, relax, try to not take other people's comments and reversions of your edits so seriously and personally, and your time on Wikipedia will be much more enjoyable.  Thanks for your comments and expressing your concerns. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 02:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality and COI
Because I have contributed heavily to this article, I am interested in understanding what the COI template means in the long run. And, of course, to whom the template refers. Is the template there just to have the article checked for its neutrality or...? Any positive and constructive input would be appreciated here. Thanks! SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 06:23, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I refer to User:Hcjbhistorian . After the page is checked for its neutrality, the tag can be removed. Thank you. Sole Soul (talk) 18:14, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Some references to HCJB in Ecuador
Mightier than the Waves by Geoff Roberts mentions that the 500kW transmitter was inaugurated by the President of Ecuador in 1981. Out of print but available here: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk/mightier.pdf 81.178.205.166 (talk) 00:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120127180727/http://www.aktuellum.com/circuits/antenna-patent/patents/2537191.pdf to http://www.aktuellum.com/circuits/antenna-patent/patents/2537191.pdf

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on HCJB. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090922093415/http://www.hcjb.org/HCJB-Global-News/ to http://www.hcjb.org/HCJB-Global-News/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070316095153/http://www.itu.int/ITU-R/terrestrial/broadcast/hf/refdata/ant/antcode.pdf to http://www.itu.int/ITU-R/terrestrial/broadcast/hf/refdata/ant/antcode.pdf

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Spotted on shortwave, not on Wikipedia?
I am from the Netherlands and checked a radio signal on 3995 kHz. It turned out to be HCJB in English, which after some investigations is only revealed on DX categorisation pages and on http://www.hcjb.de/431.html, the European website (in German) of the radio network. It may better be considered by one wanting to correct this awful Wikipedia entry. 62.140.132.17 (talk) 02:54, 28 August 2019 (UTC)