Talk:HDMS Det Store Bælt (1782)

In which Year was this ship condemned?
Discussion transferred from Talk page of User:Acad Ronin

May I ask you to check the date on the reference you supplied to HDMS Det Store Bælt as this ship was apparently condemned already in 1805. Viking1808 (talk) 14:58, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Viking1808: - the dates are the ones I used. I figured she may have made a fourth voyage to India in 1806, and been damaged on the way, with info taking time to reach Madras and then Britain. Do you have solid info that she was condemned at Copenhagen in 1805? If so, I will remove it. The problem is, the Madras report does not refer to her as the late '"Warren Hastings", and is too early for the second Holsten. What do you think? Acad Ronin (talk) 15:07, 12 October 2020 (UTC) The Danish website (J Marcussen) gives the record card for Holsten (I) which clearly states (in Danish) "Condemned in 1805 at Isle de France" and "Last year recorded -1805". I cannot vouch for its accuracy - perhaps we should add a caveat in note form regarding the questionable dates - another editor may be able to resolve the discrepancy. If no edit corrects us, I will add such a note in a few weeks. OK? Viking1808 (talk) 15:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Viking1808: Please go ahead and put in the caveat. My concern is that we have data showing her returning to Copenhagen in June-July 1805. That would mean that she would have had to be going back to Mauritius in 1805 from Copenhagen for her to be condemned there in 1805. Not impossible, but would imply a quick turn around in Copenhagen. And then, what vessel is the Holstein mentioned in the Madras newspaper? All very interesting and I think we should acknowledge the uncertainty at this stage rather than suppressing either take on the issue. I am beginning to draft the caveat at User:Viking1808/sandbox which you are welcome to read any time. 1805? 1806? 1807? Then to transfer relevant arguments from here to there for the talk page of Holsten (I) Viking1808 (talk) 21:01, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Of the references quoted as sources for the Danish Website (Marcussen) for this ship THUS: Viking1808 is unable to substantiate Marcussen's website regarding Holsten (I) that she was condemned in 1805 at Isle de France.
 * J.H. Deuntzer, 1908: Af Det asiatiske Kompagnis Historie is not fully available online due to copyright restrictions and therefore cannot be checked by Viking1808
 * Garde, 1852: Den Dansk-Norske Somagts Historie, 1700-1814 (1852) not available online
 * Klem	Skibsbyggeriet i Danmark og hertugdømmerne i 1700-årene (page 82 mentions replacement with Warren Hastings, but limited searching does not give a date)
 * Other searches via google do not yield anything useful.

From the Journals of Thomas Addison (Vol20 page 367 - 369) which is quoted as a reference in the article on Warren Hastings (1802 EIC ship) as Publications of the Navy Records Society, (1902) Vol. 20 (accessed initially by a google search) comes the following story: In April  a transfer of French prisoners from Madras to Isle de France under cartel was decided on. The ship was EIC Marquis Wellesley which in January 1807 had sailed from Penang to Madras to Bengal and back to Madras on 7 April. The ship was to be captained by Le Blanc and was stripped of most of its guns. Preparations continued throughout May and on 8 June  received on board 205 French prisoners. Set sail for Isle de France on 11 June. 18 July  arrived at The Brothers (?? _ where) Mauritius. Warped in to port to sit alongside the French frigate Pietmontaise (Captain Epron and First lieutenant Charles Moreau) who had just captured - 21 June 1806 - the old Warren Hastings. On 21 July  the Holstein Danish Indiaman came in, was condemned and the Warren Hastings (purchased in the name of the Danish Company) taken in her place.

SO! 1807! perhaps. Or at least after Warren Hastings was captured in June 1806. Can anyone confirm the release date for the 205 prisoners from Madras? As the references supplied by Acad Ronin have this ship (spelling in the English way "Holstein") sailing past Dover on 12 June 1805 towards the end of her third voyage, it would appear that she undertook a fourth voyage to the East Indies during which (Madras news article referenced) she became dismasted and hence condemned on arrival at Mauritius in 1807.

HENCE we plump for 1807 as Holsten's final year, subject only to further reliable references being found. Viking1808 (talk) 20:28, 13 October 2020 (UTC)