Talk:HIM (Finnish band)/Archive 1

Psychadelic Rock?
Under the genre list it claims HIM has been called Psychadelic Rock, with no citation. Being a fan of HIM I know that none of their songs even slightly resemble that style of genre. It's like calling N'Sync heavy metal.
 * HIM songs are psychedelic they are a little mixture of everything.

It's been deleted. Iwhaiwnfi 23:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

What is this?
'Despite a common misconception perpetuated by their sign, HIM is a satanic band. Valo claims the band is a "love metal band."'

What kind of writing is this? I'm assuming that this part of the article is supposed to be saying that people often misinterpret the symbol and assume it is a satanic band but, in actuality, Valo says it isn't.

But instead it technically says that because of their sign they DON'T seem like a satanic band, but actually are.

Wow.

Saying that HIM is a satanic band was most likely a typo on the editor's part.

On the band's name
The fact is the band's original name was (His Infernal Majesty). This is actualy fairly wellknown fact among Finnish music circles. Of course the most authorative and primary sources are Finnish, but that can't be helped. First, a festival performer list from 1997 which show the band's name asHis Infernal Majesty (HIM), and here's an article from one of Finland's biggest magazines on popular music - Rumba. Here's the relevant text in Finnish:
 * HIM eli entiseltä nimeltään His Infernal Majesty näki päivänvalon melko tarkalleen neljä vuotta sitten, mutta...
 * ...siinä oli ihan eri jätkät mukana silloin, Ville kertoo. Bändin nimi syntyi silloin ja silloin mä aloin myös tekemään biisejä. Ja laulamaan. Se oli kyllä ihan eri bändi, musiikillisesti ja muutenkin.

This is my translation (to my best ability):
 * HIM, formelly His Infernal Majesty saw sunligh roughly four years ago, but...
 * ...there were different gyus back then, Ville tells. Band's name was born then and I started to write songs. And to sing. It was a different band musically and othervise, tough.

As for the quote from the official site - it didn't prove or disprove anything. The current situation was restated, which is that currently the name is just HIM. - The Merciful 19:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, someone should merge this page with His Infernal Majesty and move the discography from Ville Valo's page to the band bage... I'm too tired now. --Iceager 03:14, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Come on! HIM doesn't mean "His Infernal Majesty"...

Correct. Taken from HIM's website: What does HIM stand for? ''"- Ville's comments on this issue (from Soundi 6-7/2001):

Well, sometimes I wish that we’d picked other name for the band than HIM. The name constantly pisses me off. It’s utterly terrible! HIM! The upside is that it doesn’t actually mean anything, there are just three letters which are pronounced similarily in basically every language. It’s practical.

In almost every interview someone asks what does HIM stand for. I can’t even remember our latest lie about that. When Hanson was hot, we said it means Hanson Is Murder. The name doesn’t have a particular history. His Infernal Majesty was a totally different band. I think HIM derives from some death metal joke. And it was our protest to Haile Selassie’s rastafarian religion, he used to be called His Imperial Majesty. But nowadays because of Linde’s hair, we actually might be supporting him."''

Wrong.
That is an interview. Ville jokes a lot during interviews. H.I.M NO LONGER stands for his infernal majesty. But it once did. It is even printed as their name on the 666waystolove prologue. That interview was in 2001. He's fed up of the same question. Come on!!!@ that.

Not that any of this matters, real fans know what it's all about. Surely if someone is so bothered to actually quote from text on the webpage they could figure out that their first ever CD had "his infernal majesty" printed on it. Also it should NOT be merged..people should be redirected from his infernal majesty to here. :)

Why were albums merged to the band page?
WikiProject Albums actively defends following statements:
 * Separating album articles from band articles
 * Not adding dab tags if there is no other encyclopedic use of the album title

For this reason and accomplishing WikiProject Albums' recomendations, a structural revert of Samuel J. Howard's changes to HIM (band) and all albums will take place in less than 48 hours if no counter-argument is posted below. KeyStorm 14:16, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I admit to having been ignorant of the dab policy. I didn't delete the other uses, just made them redirects. You can put the redirects with unneccesary dab extensions "(album)" up on redirects for deletion and I won't object.

However, the first note about seperating album articles from band articles I can't find the relevant section of WikiProject Albums. What I did, making the album names redirect to the relevant section of HIM (band) and then filling out the content in accord with WikiProject Albums seems like a perfectly good solution to me. The overriding thing to keep in mind as well is that not every album is inherently notable and should have its own article. They may be a reasonable part of the article on the band though this solution serves both purposes.--Samuel J. Howard 18:26, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

I posted a counterargument and you reverted anyways w/o further discussion! Furthermore in rather bad faith you labeled it a minor edit. RVed back. Please respond before doing anything else.--Samuel J. Howard 03:20, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC) It seems my browser cached this talk site and I did not see your partly reasonable counter-argument, for which I apologise (I obviously offered you some time to react for a very wiki reason). Wikiproject: Albums mention the creation of articles for albums/singles, etc as of names of articles (which do dot need to include an additional (album) tag if it is not needed). As most of HIM's albums are stubs (and should be btw marked as such, but that is another story) or do not even exist at all, it could be ok to append them to the band's page. But if the album articles grow we will have an endless article while I don't honestly see the reason why not to split it into several pages. <br/ I have to reckon I am rather new to this, and I am concentrating on Albums (albumboxing articles and so forth), but I have always seen albums separated from the bands page, except in very short discographies or in stubs. I do not see this as a big edit, since it doesn't strictly affect to the content of the articles and only a mere structural issue. If this was wrongly labeled, it wasn't meant to hide anything. So, how can we solve this controversy in the best-willing? Just sorry again for unintentionally ignoring your comment. -KeyStorm 17:38, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) Reverting again to accomplish WikiProject: Albums' guidelines

Statistics section removal
I removed the startistics section for two reasons: --KeyStorm 20:40, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) It tells dupliacate information that can be already found in the first lines of the article.
 * 2) It presented several inconsistencies with the real facts and the facts written above.

Pro noun?
Is HIM is or are? We have "As of 2005, HIM are currently..." and at the top "HIM is an alternative rock band" Which one is it? 213.106.80.27 19:52, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

HIM = Dido = Dent

HIM = molehills = Dido humps

<3: It is well known in some parts of South West England that HIM is actually a tribute band towards a guy who grew too tall and formed a tragic indentation in his chest which caused many problems. He was also covered in a strange hair-like substance which prevented him from joining in regular activites and suffered from failing to kick a ball in a straight (pun) line. Nevertheless he found happiness from this 'Metal' band and returned his respects by having HIM tattooed inside his 'dent'.

Ville jokes a lot during interviews. H.I.M NO LONGER stands for his infernal majesty. But it once did.

Singles
I corrected the US chart position for Wings of a Butterfly. It never reached #5 on any Billboard chart; it peaked at #21. Check here:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=396033&model.vnuAlbumId=733726


 * and now it says the song is at number 20 - Bagel7

Similar Bands
I'm sorry, but Type O Negative is NOTHING similar to HIM, so I took them off the Similar Bands list. Ladysway1985 00:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Type O Negative is nothing like HIM. I don't believe 69 Eyes is though either. HIM is one of a kind. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The 69 Eyes has been removed from the similar bands list.

Who the hell put Cradle of Filth on the similiar bands list? Since when has HIM ever been like Cradle of Filth. Yes I love HIM, but that is jsut an insult to Cradle of Filth right there. They are nothing alike. Cradle of Filth has been removed. 208.63.114.185 16:13, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The Sisters Of Mercy? How are they anything like the monstrosity that is HIM? 88.104.216.213 23:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The Mission UK sound similar to HIM especially on the album "God's Own Medicine" Deathrocker 12:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't heard of any of those two bands mention so I can't answer that question. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 16:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

"Since when has HIM ever been like Cradle of Filth." You are absolutlly right they are nothing alike!!!Dazel 06:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Wrong Again :)
"In 2003, the band released their fourth full-length album titled Love Metal, which was well received by the United States media, in particular Kerrang magazine and also the Rolling Stone magazine."

Looking particularly at "the United States media, in particular Kerrang magazine" To the best of my knowledge, Kerrang! is published solely in the UK. I don't know whether this is incorrect information or simply a badly written sentence. It's also always written with the exclamation mark (or point) in the name. Liss

Headline text
So yea, thats it, the bands name is simply H.I.M., no meaning, just there, so deal, out


 * Amanda

Incorrect U.S. release info?
If I'm not mistaken, none of HIM's albums were widely available in the U.S. until after the Euro release of Love Metal. Razorblade Romance was the first HIM album widely issued in the U.S. (in late 2003 or early 2004, if my memory serves), and the remaining albums followed soon after.

I recall this because I spent the summer of 2003 in Germany and made a point to purchase all four HIM albums because they weren't available in the U.S. at that time.

Love Metal?
Even though Ville calls HIM love metal, a legimitimate genre of music would make more sense than a genre made up by the band itself. unless there is a big genre that i am totally unaware of, change it to something with a genre that has more than HIM (i recommend goth rock). if u give me a few more bands proving that this is a real genre -panasonicyouth99 12:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I am much gratified to see that the page lists HIM's genre as "alternative rock." A song that is depressing or deals with death, pain, or the like is not automatically "gothic." --Magnes 151.196.47.172 20:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

HIM is most associated with Alternative Rock and Gothic Rock. But, truly, they can't fit either genre. Valo calls their band a "Love Metal" band, so that must be their genre. It's not impossible for a 1 band genre to exist.

Just because a band claims to be a genre doesn't mean they're automatically in it. For example, Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park could try to claim they're thrash metal or something, but the fact is that they would barely qualify for nu-metal. Underwhelmed


 * HIM claims to be "love metal", but thier actual genre is alternative metal, not alternative rock. D G  X  13:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

They have no elements of metal in their sound, so they're clearly an alternative rock band.

Harvested Sorrow 16:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Just because you say it has "no elements" of metal in it doesn't automatically place it under the alternative rock genre. Alternative metal is a mixture of both alternative rock and heavy metal. And the lead singer for HIM describes themselves as a "love metal" band. Although that doesn't exist, they use the word metal which solidifies my statement. D G  X  17:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ville Valo said he had invented the term Love Metal, which is nonsense for two reasons:
 * 1) The band is not metal
 * 2) Other bands that are metal have been playing songs with love themes in them before HIM (like Nightwish). In Flames 11:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Can we please get rid of Emo in the genre controversy. HIM is anything but Emo. The closest thing on that list is Gothic Metal. They are, however, Love Metal. If the fans call them Love Metal, then its their genre. Fans make the genres, and the HIM fans have made Love Metal. Deal with it.

Fans make the genres eh lol. then Slipknot is for sure heavy metal by those standards? no, it is the critics that make it what it is, everyone else. not the fans, if it was up to the members of the band or the fans, they would be anything. they are goth rock in my eyes and im staying that way. and going with the comment if it deals with death does not equal gothic rock. i agree with in flames commenti do quite understand this, but im going by sound, im age, lyrics and they all qualify for it. ugh... this problem does not exist on Katatonia... -panasonicyouth99 10:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

We shouldn't even be having this controversy. Wikipedia is based on Verifiability, not what its random editors' thoughts. If you have a good and reliable source that says HIM is a gothic band, then we put HIM as gothic (with proper references). If another source says HIM is love metal or alternative metal, than we put HIM as both (again with proper sourcing). The main point is that YOUR's and MY opinions on this issue do not matter (unless either one of us is a music expert). They are moot, and not worth crap in Wikipedia. However, reputable critics' and the band's opinions do matter, and that is what this genre controversy should be based off of. Copysan 01:00, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

is something is obvious here is that HIM is nothing close to EMO! i would considered HIM a Mix between Gothic, alternative rock and a bit of metal --Ace vic

The band started as a Black Sabbath tribute act, thus making them far more metal related than most so called "metal" bands since the 1970s. - Deathrocker 13:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

allmusicguide states they are gothic metal, and for deathrocker, metal has evolved over time so has many genres. if we just go by what the bands are today, no band is true. Jazz, R & B, Classical Music, and Rock has changed. We dont say rock bands arent true because they dont sound like Elvis Presley or Chuck Berry. Stravinsky isnt classical music because he doesnt sound Mozart. If we go with the original definitions would never change, so stick with what metal is now, and not in the past. panasonicyouth99 19:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Possible Lawsuit
Some rumors i came across. Apparently HIM and Bam Margera are quietly in court over use of the heartagram. Anyone shed anymore light to this


 * i highly doubt that. HIM and Bam have always been pretty close together. just look at CKY (videos), Bam's tv show(s) (in which he frequently features the band), and the tony hawk games, where i believe he states his affection for the band. Furthermore, should we add this information to the page? I believe we should say somewhere that bam margera and HIM have worked together/are close, or something along those lines - Bagel7

Their not in court. Ville agreed to let Bam use the heartagram because they're such good friends. Ville created it, and now HIM and Bam both use it. But its always will be the symbol of HIM.

Yeah, there where some kids at my school that had the heatagram on the back of their shirt and on the front it said " BAM ". I thought it was sort of funny.

Why would they be in court. Bam can't claim the heartagram as his, he didn't make it. The only reason he uses it is because Ville's a good friend and let him. - The Bickel

I saw a Interview on Youtube.com were ville and bam had gotten into a fight. Ville called Bam a little cockaroach who always follows us around and yeah he uhh does bug us alot. And supposely their sources say that bam made HIM what they are today in America.

Adding random people
Someone keeps adding a "first ever duo vocalist Jeremy Earliwine" to the list of members. I googled "Jeremy Earliwine" and got nothing involving HIM (other than mirror sites for Wikipedia with the same text I've edited), nor have I heard anything in regards to this on any media, so I'm removing the name until such a time that someone can produce factual evidence in support of this. Blackball135 22:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed yet another reference to Jeremy Earliwine. This time, Mr. Earliwine came up with the heartagram when he and Ville were writing lyrics for the band's songs. Nice try, Mr. Earliwine. Blackball135 15:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

First off, this is false, due to the fact that there have been dual vocalists in HIM, in songs like "Don't Fear the Reaper". However, HIM has never had a permanent dual vocalist, and I doubt they will. It is possible, though, that they have one in their next album, though nobody can know for sure, and I highly doubt it.

I was actually referring to Jeremy Earliwine being a duo vocalist (since 1998, according to one version). I realize that HIM has had guest vocalists from time to time. I've never heard any mention of a Jeremy Earliwine though, and believe that to be vandalism.

picture of the heartagram
its been replaced by a picture of superman petting a dog.... why?el sand bag 20:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

12 June 2006 edit (Helfaery)
Not adding much information; mostly cleaning up the article by reorganizing the existing information and rewording things for clarity. This is the first significant edit of an article I've done, and if any of the changes I made need to be changed back, I understand.

I didn't verify any existing information, and some of it could use citations. Regarding the final sentence in the fourth paragraph ("...Ville Valo has stated that HIM is not a Satanic band"), I think it might be helpful to cite a direct quote, especially since that tends to be the subject of much of the vandalism to this article. The quote earlier in the same paragraph, about what the heartagram stands for, could use a citation as well. I'll look into both of those if no one gets to it before I do.

I did check the cross-references to make sure the links go to the right articles, but I may have missed a few.

Helfaery 08:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Edit controversies
It seems like we need to have some kind of organized discussion about some of the things that keep getting edited back and forth, such as what genre the band belongs to and whether to include that the band was once called His Infernal Majesty (assuming it's to be considered the same band as the current HIM). I'm not saying we have to reach a consensus on what the answer is, but it might be a good idea to agree on what information to use in the article and how to word it to acknowledge the debate, rather than making the same edits over and over.

I realize Wikipedia articles are always changing, a group effort, etc., but there are more constructive things that can be done with this article than changing the genre classification every two days. But that's just my opinion; what does everyone else think?

Helfaery 13:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Helfaery. I agree that it is a pester that the genre is changed on a daily basis. But thats because there is a genre controversey. See the genre controversy section on the page. I would prefer the infobox say unclassifiable and direct it to the genre controversey section, than specifically choose one genre that not everyone will agree on. Definantly, the band should be noted formerly known as His Infernal Majesty, its a part of being an encyclopedia. ;-) — The King of Kings  05:58 June 28 '06


 * That (unclassifiable & ref. to controversy section in the infobox) is what I was thinking, too; at least it's less likely to be changed every other day if someone looks at it and sees that the controversy is prominently acknowledged in the article. Of course, the other HIM-related articles list the genre as four different things, but as you said, that's the controversy. It would look better if they were consistent, but it's not a big deal. Helfaery 10:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the other articles prominently say HIM is a love-metal band. Actually, I think love-metal would be more suited in the other articles since thats, self-proclaimed, what they are. But people will change it no matter what. — The King of Kings  22:45 June 28 '06


 * As an aside, remember that Wikipedia is supposed to be verifiable, so no matter what you think, find a reputable and reliable source to back up any genre claims. Personally, I would use multiple genres in the infobox. Copysan 02:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Copysan that we should find sources for the genres, so it's not based on editors' personal opinions. I suppose reviews that mention their genre are acceptable sources for that. Perhaps online music stores that classify by genre?
 * I assume that whomever replaced several of the genres with "Emo" in the last edit was trying to be helpful; however, the point of that section as I understand it is to list all the genres that have been applied to HIM. If someone would like to add "Emo" to the list, I think it would be most constructive to also link to an external source that defines HIM as "Emo", since we're also going to be finding sources for the other genres on the list. Helfaery 12:46, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * i think all the genres in the section can be posible since i consider HIM as a mix up of genres particulary metal, gothic and alternative rock... but EMO... i dont think so since the emo as a genre seems a bit ambiguos! and HIM does noy sound similar to bands usually considered emo such as avenged sevenfold or From first to last --Ace vic 04:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC) also i dont think POP, pop rock, and psicodelic rock fits at all

I understand every single genre in the world. BUT THE ONLY ONE THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS WHAT THE HELL IS EMO EXACTLY?

There's nothing ambiguous about emo. Have you tried looking it up on this site? It stands for emotional hardcore, as in hardcore punk, which it grew out of. HIM has no relation to either, so emo doesn't belong in this article. The only reason someone would put emo is because some emo fans listen to HIM, but that doesn't make them emo any more than it makes Metallica emo.

Genre
I don't see why there should be a problem listing the band's genre as Rock music if the particular subgenre cannot be decided on. Also, check out what Allmusic.com has to say about the subject. WesleyDodds 21:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Redirects
I removed the looping redirects from the main article—those that link from band members' names, to an article with that name, which redirects back to the main article. It seemed like the sensible thing to do, but I can change it back if necessary. The redirect pages still exist; they are: It makes sense to have the redirect pages for search purposes, I suppose, and in case other articles link to them; but I don't think it's necessary to link them from the article to which they ultimately redirect. —Helfaery 19:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Migé Amour
 * Emerson Burton
 * Gas Lipstick
 * Zoltan Pluto

STOP THE VIOLENCE!!!
Okay from what i can tell everyone is bitching about trival stuff like the genre af the band. I think we can all agree HIM is kick ass so why is it we are woried about the genre? I mean the critics ALLWAYS get that kind of stuff wrong (if you dont belive me go to the against me page. FOLK PUNK!!! WTF!!!!) any ways why waste time bitching when we could be rocking out to some kick ass music!!

--Razor romance 16:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason that there is debate and not praise is: We are an encyclopedia, not a fansite. Also folk punk is a fusion genre of Punk Rock and Folk Music much like Folk Metal is a fusion genre of Heavy Metal and Folk Music. --Wildnox 16:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Razor Romance for saying that. Lets just all stop worrying about the genre and just start trying to get more people enjoying the wonderful musical styling that is HIM.The Bickel 23:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Heavy metal?
HEAVY METAL DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON WITH HIM!!!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PEOPLE?! --Aeternus 13:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please provide a reliable source and then put that in the genre controversy section. Copysan 20:25, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

HIM is not heavy metal, they are Love Metal. But, if you do think they are heavy metal, then go listen to some Demon Hunter, Iced Earth, Cradle of Filth, or some other bands they're like. Trust me, after that, you won't think that HIM is heavy metal. Heavy metal kicks-ass, HIM kicks more though.The Bickel 04:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia doesnt care what you or I think about HIM. It cares what reliable sources think. Copysan 07:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think they are heavy metal! And those bands like Demon Hunter, Iced Earth, Cradle of Filth aren't heavy metal! They are gothic metal, for God's sake! --Aeternus 09:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Love metal isn't a real genre Bickel, it's one made up by Valo. From the article: Ville Valo has stated that the band started as a "Black Sabbath tribute band of sorts", which further solidifies the band's heavy metal leanings. Thus I added the heavy metal genre into the group of genre's they have. No one is sure of HIM's genre since Valo or any other group member hasn't verified what genre they really are. Thats why that section is called a "genre controversy". — Moe Epsilon  16:16 August 19 '0

Ville has classified HIM as a Love Metal band. That is what they are. I understand if you don't believe it to be a real genre because its not widely popular, but bands have made up their own genres to fit their music. Give Love Metal time, it will soon be its own genre, if you don't consider it one yet.The Bickel 01:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Demon Hunter is christian metal, not gothic metal. Cradle of Filth is Symphonic black metal, and Iced Earth is Thrash/Power Metal. Besides, heavy metal is nothing but a blanket genre holding all the forms of metal music. Very very few bands are actually considered "Heavy Metal". They're some kind of metal that has branched off.The Bickel 19:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter if the lead singer makes up a genre for a band. I could say "my band is a post-pop metal band", (made that genre up) but does that make it a genre? No, even Valo claiming the band is love metal isn't good enough to be a single genre of it's own. Besides the only band that qualifies as "love metal" would be HIM. Usually there are more than one band per genre. It's not a matter if I consider it a genre or not, it's not a genre. — Moe Epsilon  20:43 August 21 '06


 * Damn you all sound like little kids fighting over something with no Importance black metal, gothic metal, heavy metal. Who the hell cares. No wonder ville disses his own fans I don't blame him.

THANK YOU WHO EVER SAID THE LIL KIDS STATMENT!!!!! i said it before in my last post and ill say it again... THE GENRE DOSE NOT MATTER!!!!! while this might not be a fan site, un my own opponion only someone who knows about HIM wouls come to the HIM page. so with that said VILLE CALLS IT LOVE METAL ITS FUCKING LOVE METAL!!!!!!!HOW MUCH TIME WILL WE WASTE FIGHTING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT DOSE NOT MATTER IN THE LONG RUN!!!ITS NOT LIKE THE GENRE DETRACTS ANYTHING AWAY FROM THE BAND!!! STOP FUCKING FIGHTRING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!Razor romance 13:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thats what i've been saying since the very beginning.The Bickel 04:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The "true goth" section really reeks of POV, it's just disguised as nonPOV by weasel words. Also, the only place where HIM would be called "heavy metal" is in the stupid and restrictive genre field on some CD ripping programs. NOBODY uses the term "heavy metal" anymore, especially not professional critics. It's either a term that old people use to refer to all loud rock music, or in a more specific context, a euphemism for hair metal like Poison, Cinderella, etc. Either way, absolutely nothing to do with this band. It makes about as much sense as calling them thrash metal. I'm gonna change it to hard rock, and please don't change it back unless you find an example of a critic calling them (or for that matter, any critic within the last decade calling ANYTHING) "heavy metal". "Alternative metal" does make sense though. Finally, trying to put "Love metal" down as the genre is just ridiculous. What the hell is the point of even having genres if every band tries to come up with their own? There are no other "love metal" bands, so it's not a genre!

LAYOUT
I think we should have more pics of the band. N-E one else think so. we sshold talk about thisRazor romance 13:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Possible Genre Dispute Solution
Hey, Im a casual listener of HIM, but that really doesnt matter because, like previously stated, this is an encyclopedia cite based on sources and referencds and not opinions. An idea I propose to solve the genre dispute would be to say that HIM's music contains various elements from various types of music, much like how the genre is described in The Smashing Pumpkins article.

HIM contains elements of Romanticism, Nihilism and Existentialism found in Goth Rock. They definitely have at least SOME metal influence because it is noticable. I personally dont listen to Goth Metal much and the only Goth Metal bands that Ive listened to more than rarely are Lacuna Coil and Type O Negative. I looked at the List of gothic metal bands and didnt know any of the others really. Theyre definitely somewhat similar to the two aforementioned bands, the trouble is finding a good source(every one I find has notable flaws, namely comparisons to bands that do not sound at all similar; Chief among them being Aiden) They also contain influences of Heavy Metal and/or Doom Metal. Valo has said that HIM started out as a Black Sabbath cover band if I recall and Sabbath is definitely a metal band, so there is at least partial influence. Also, HIM had more Metal influence in their earlier albums whereas it is not as apparent(but clearly still there) in their latter two releases. Love Metal isnt a REAL genre of music, or at least it isnt yet. Perhaps in a decade or so it could become one like so many other genres developed. Thats how Goth Rock came about...

Generally HIM's music contains low toned down verse and generally louder explosive choruses. This is somewhat characteristic of Alt rock.

Ok my proposition to solving this would be to put in something like this:


 * HIM's sound can be described as a combination of melodic romantic lyrics, downtoned verse and explosive choruses containing elements of Goth Rock, Goth Metal, and Alternative Metal.

Or something similar. Feel free to aid me with the wording seeing as Im not exactly the best at expressing my meanings and conceptions into words. Lamentingvampire09 11:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

HIM is love metal. Its a genre made to perfectly fit HIM. I don't understand why people cant except this.
 * Love metal does not exist as a genre, one lone band does not a genre make. --Wildnox 01:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You cant say that it is a mix of various genres without having a source to back that up. Copysan 03:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, we can find several sources if need be. Im not in the mood to look right now, but I will look later over the weekend. Lamentingvampire09 06:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Still Fighting?WHY NOT A SOLUTION?
Everyone has had some verry intersting points about the genre dispute but no one (including myself)) has offerd a well-thought out solution to the problem....until recently by Lementingvampire09. i whole heartedley agree with him. i think yhat under the "genre controvsey"section it should read HIM's genre is widely debated in that it contains manny elements of goth rock, heavy metal,(insert any outher genres i missed here)Ville, the lead singer has proposed that this unique sound that is HIM is something he calls LOVE METAL, I would have gone ahead and done it myself but for something this important to the page ang the people i felt it needed sugesting.Razor romance 13:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't think the other stuff if needed, but I do think that Valo calls the band's genre Love Metal is worth a mention in that section. --Wildnox 13:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

hi
hi fans this is vallo thanks for suporting are band i am on this site a lot so let me know eny ideas that u have for the band thanks.

valo