Talk:HMS Engadine (1911)

Sons of Our Empire film - HMS Engadine
How do we determine what the film is about?

Sons of Our Empire: Film of the Royal Naval Air Service including HMS Engadine on the Firth of Forth about August 1916.

A significant chunk is devoted to the vessel and it's seaplane activities (09:28 - 12:59), and the last 5 mins are devoted to submarine E23 - the link can't go under Harwich as the film of Engadine is taken on the Forth.80.229.34.113 (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I was going by the official description in the link you gave:

"Object description The British battle-cruiser squadron base at Rosyth, July-August 1916.

Full description

I. (Reel 3) The Royal Naval Air Service at Felixstowe. First their marching band. Then aircrew running a Curtiss H.2 flying boat, possibly one of the first two purchased from the Curtiss company, out of its hangar for launch. Note that the Anzani engines are running. This is followed by the prototype Porte F.1. These and other seaplanes in the air, including a Sopwith Baby. The Felixstowe (?) practises bomb runs"


 * From this, the main subject of the film - or at least of this reel - appears to be aeroplanes. Your claim that it is "devoted to the vessel and..." appears to be incorrect, in that it is officially said to be devoted to a marching band and some aeroplanes. On that basis the ship is incidental to the film. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Appears is not enough to persuaded me, neither is the volume of the text in the IWM description - what do the captions on the film state? The film is not entirely devoted to aircraft.80.229.34.113 (talk) 17:06, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The burden is on you to persuade the rest of us that the material adds significantly to the subject, not the other way round. If you can gain consensus that the film content is as relevant as you claim and is not as officially described, then you have a case. Until then, you don't. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Lets start by basing debate on the full facts rather that a distortion by quoting the Full description in full:


 * Full description


 * I. (Reel 3) The Royal Naval Air Service at Felixstowe. First their marching band. Then aircrew running a Curtiss H.2 flying boat, possibly one of the first two purchased from the Curtiss company, out of its hangar for launch. Note that the Anzani engines are running. This is followed by the prototype Porte F.1. These and other seaplanes in the air, including a Sopwith Baby. The Felixstowe (?) practises bomb runs against a partly sunken wreck. The Porte F.1 and a Short 184 are brought in by tugs. Commodore Caley and Flight-Commander Porte pose in a group with Commander Lynes. The seaplane carrier HMS Engadine launches a Short 184, which flies on patrol and returns to the ship. Some of the seaplanes stunt flying. II. The submarine service. E.23 is loaded with torpedoes, and moves off surfaced, submerges, surfaces and fires her 12-pounder, before returning to the base and being dry docked.81.149.141.199 (talk) 19:31, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for posting the whole thing. I expect the shortened version I saw was a consequence of my restricting JavaScript in my web browser. But it doesn't change my case: the mention of HMS Engadine is not central enough to the description to warrant a link here. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:09, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Followed by the captions of the time from the Film, in full:


 * SONS OF OUR EMPIRE Part 3
 * GLIMPSES OF THE BRITISH NAVY IN WAR-TIME
 * These pictures were taken after the Jutland Battle.
 * With the Royal Naval Air Service.
 * The R.N.A.S. on Parade
 * Planning patrol - reconnaissance Duty.
 * The Alarm - Getting out a Seaplane.
 * Arming Seaplane
 * Seaplane leaving on Patrol Duty.
 * In the Air.
 * Bomb dropping.
 * Returning to Airsheds.
 * Commodore Caley, RN., and Flight Commander Porte, R.N.A.S. returning from a flight.
 * Commodore Caley, RN., and Flight Commander Porte, R.N.A.S and Commander Lynes, RN.
 * Mascot of the R.N.A.S.
 * H.M.S. "Engadine" the Seaplane Ship from which a Pilot left and first sighted the German Fleet before the Battle of Jutland.
 * Flying over Destoyers.
 * Seaplane returning to H.M.S. "Engadine".
 * Pictures taken 6,000ft. up.
 * Looping the Loop.
 * The Submarine Service.
 * Lowering Torpedo into Submarine E23. (10 days after this picture was taken she torpedoed and sunk German Dreadnought of the Nassau Class.)
 * Leaving the Base.
 * Under Way.
 * Submerging.
 * Emerging and firing 12-pounder.
 * Returning to Base.
 * In Dry Dock.81.149.141.199 (talk) 21:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Based solely on the captions, in my view some distinct themes emerge:
 * Empire
 * The British Navy
 * The Submarine Service, The Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS)
 * The Battle of Jutland
 * Submarine E23, Seaplanes, HMS Engadine, Caley and Porte


 * The IWM summary is a helpful museum guide to the contents of the film, but in my opinion should not be relied on for editorial decisions as it's written about 100 years after the event. The original material is paramount, the nearest to an official description of the film is the captions and those should be seen as part of the whole. I would recommend scrutinising the contents (as if you were an officer of the Imperial German Navy!).81.149.141.199 (talk) 12:49, 17 February 2018 (UTC)