Talk:HMS Powerful (1895)

Laid up in 1904 or flagship of Australia Station in 1908
The article suggests this ship was laid up but I have found a couple of sources suggesting she was active in 1908 and in fact "flagship of the of the Royal Navy squadron on the Australian station" - eg  and. Have I the same ship?--Matilda talk 05:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * copied from talk page of User:Matilda Most likely the same ship, but unfortunately there's little I can offer to shed light on her Australian career. What the sources seem to agree on is that she was reduced to the reserve in 1904 and was a training ship by 1912.  It's quite possible that in this gap she was reactivated to serve as the Australian station's flagship, but unfortunately my sources don't mention this, nor do the on-line ones I can find.  But this shouldn't rule out the likelihood that this is in fact what happened, but rather a gap in the sources.  Kind regards, Benea (talk) 16:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

From various sources - work in progress to fill in the details

 * BOER WAR
 * 1899 25-Nov 	The Naval Brigade from HMS Powerful, flagship of the Australia Station, fought in the Battle of Graspan against the Boers in South Africa.
 * 1900 6-Jan The Naval Brigade from HMS Powerful repulsed a strong Boer attack at Ladysmith, South Africa.
 * 1900 30-Oct The Naval Brigade of HMS Powerful attacked Boer positions at Lombards Kop, Ladysmith, South Africa.
 * from http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~ausnavy/Military%20Action.htm


 * Australian Naval History on 31 December 1907
 * VADM Sir Richard Poore, Bt, KCB, CVO, was appointed Flag Officer Commanding Australia Station. His flagship was HMS POWERFUL.
 * from http://www.navyhistory.org.au/tag/australia-station/


 * Australian Naval History on 31 December 1910
 * VADM Sir George F. King-Hall, KCB, CVO, was appointed Flag Officer Commanding Australia Station. His flagships were HM Ships POWERFUL, DRAKE, and CAMBRIAN.
 * from http://www.navyhistory.org.au/tag/hms-powerful-aust-station/


 * Australia Station as at 1905
 * The Australian Squadron commanded by Sir Arthur D. Fanshawe KCB, then comprised HMS POWERFUL (Flagship – 14,200 tons)
 * from http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/pioneer.html


 * Amongst the 114 documents found for Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies - Halsey family papers re ships served on:
 * Lionel Halsey, HMS Agincourt, Mediterranean Station, 1887, HMS Triumph, Cape Station, 1888-9, HMS Raleigh, Cape Station, 1889-91, HMS Mercury, China Station, 1892-3, HMS Ramillies, Mediterranean Station, 1893-4, HMS Crescent, North America and West Indies Station, 1895-6, HMS Crescent, North America and West Indies Station, 1896-7, HMS Powerful, North America and West Indies Station, 1897-1900, HMS Diana, Mediterranean Station, 1901-2, HMS Good Hope, Cruiser Squadron, 1902-4, HMS Powerful, Australia Station, 1905-8, HMS New Zealand, a Commonwealth & Empire tour and Baltic patrol, 1913-15, HMS Iron Duke, Baltic patrol, 1915-16, HMAS Australia, Baltic patrol, 1918, HMS Renown, on world tours with the Prince of Wales, 1920, 1921-2, 1925;
 * from http://www.centres.ex.ac.uk/cmhs/ELMAP/location.php?loc_id=39


 * Image held by Australian War memorial
 * SYDNEY, NSW. 1905-1910. THE FIRST CLASS PROTECTED CRUISER HMS POWERFUL (LEFT) AND THE SECOND CLASS PROTECTED CRUISERS HMS ENCOUNTER (CENTRE) AND HMS CAMBRIAN, ALL OF THE IMPERIAL SQUADRON ON THE AUSTRALIA STATION. (NAVAL HISTORICAL COLLECTION)
 * http://nla.gov.au/nla.cs-pa-http%25253A%25252F%25252Fcas.awm.gov.au%25252Fphotograph%25252F304248


 * Image (State Library NSW) good image of ship
 * Sailors on deck of four-funnel cruiser HMS Powerful, Australian Squadron, Sydney Harbour
 * from http://nla.gov.au/nla.cs-pa-HTTP%253A%252F%252FLIBAPP.SL.NSW.GOV.AU%252FCGI-BIN%252FSPYDUS%252FENQ%252FPM%252FFULL1%253F152671%252CI

HMS Powerful 1st class protected cruiser Flagship of the Australian Squadron Complement 894 Launched: 1895 Length: 500 feet Beam: 71 feet Draught: 27 feet Displacement: 14,200 tons Speed: 22 knots (design speed) Machinery 4 cylinder VTE multiple expansion Horsepower 25,000 hp forced draught Armament: 2 x 9.2-inch guns 12 x 6-inch guns 16 x 12-pounder QF guns 12 x 3-pounder QF guns 4 x 18-inch torpedo tubes Armour: 2-6 in deck 6 in barbettes
 * Discussion on postcards of Sydney
 * I am quite confident that the heavy ship (4 funnels) is the 1st class protected cruiser HMS Powerful.

HMS Powerful protected cruiser 1st class Launched 1895 Served China Station Served in Boer War 1899 Refit 1902 - 1904 Australia Squadron 1905-1911 (flagship for unknown part of that time, but carrying the pennant of Sir Arthur D. Fanshawe KCB in 1905). Some sources list the vessel as in reserve during this period, but from the photographic evidence and service histories here in Australia, there is no doubt that the vessel was in Australian waters. It was the case during this period that warships not considered to be of the first rank were sent to serve on quiet stations like Australia Returned UK, partially disarmed and used for harbour service from 1912 Served as accommodation and training ship in WWI Renamed HMS Impregnable 1919 and continued as training ship (Plymouth) Disposed 1929

Relying solely on the names of vessels in the historical record is an unreliable technique. Both merchant and naval vessels change their names. I think there have been at least four or five HMS Powerfuls (the last an aircraft carrier?). I would, however, be very surprised if HMS Powerful the protected cruiser 1st class, or a vessel carrying the same name, was at Jutland. By 1904, HMS Powerful (and sister ship HMS Terrible) was considered to be of limited fighting quality and assigned to secondary duties. I can find no listing of a ship of that name in the order of battle at Jutland.

Regarding RN ship lists. Perhaps what you seek is in the National Maritime Museum Research Guide for the Royal Navy: ‘Ship lists and movements Navy List 1782–present The official Navy List shows Royal Navy ships, their commanders and officers, coastguard vessels, hired vessels and packet ships. Early-19th century volumes also list French, Spanish and American ships taken during the Napoleonic Wars and British ships lost, captured or destroyed.’ http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.584


 * from http://oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/forum_topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=7626&FORUM_ID=94&CAT_ID=15&Forum_Title=Royal+Navy&Topic_Title=Warships

Work in progress to fill in the gaps of the ship's career--Matilda talk 20:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

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