Talk:HO scale/Archive 2

As a stopgap measure I'm reverting Erik Baas's edits. The "correct" name for HO scale, as defined by the experts, is H alpha-O in the US and Canada (per NMRA) and H number-0 in Europe (per the NEM). Common usage in the U.S. is entirely HO, while in Europe it varies by manufacturer and location.

Since this is the English Wikipedia, English conventions take precedence; this presents a problem wherever British and American conventions conflict. This has lead to more than a few transatlantic edit wars, of which the HO/H0 differentiation is but one. It helps to look at the numbers; Canada and the US share a common model railroad market of 340 million inhabitants, with standards outlined by the NMRA. The UK market is about 1/4 this size, at 85 million.

Including English-speaking Commonwealth countries outside the US significantly effects this ratio, so it is useful to look at these countries' individual practices. A cursory look at Australian manufacturers (link: http://www.modeltrainsnthings.com/australian-model-train-links/ho-gauge.html) reveals that they almost all use the term HO scale. Data for South Africa is more scarce, but the website for the Pretoria Model Train Club likewise spells it H-alpha-O (http://www.railserve.com/jump/jump.cgi?ID=13537).

Additionally, a cursory review of Google search results shows that modelers in these countries prefer US and Canadian prototypes over British ones, a fact compounded by the fact that most British outline models are in OO gauge.

Finally, while the "H0" and "0" nomenclature is compatible with the mostly obsolete 1, 2, and 3 scales, "HO" and "O" are more appropriate when one considers that almost all model railroad gauges in common use use alpha characters (i.e. Z, N, TT, S, G, etc)

Thus while H0 is technically correct in Britain, HO is correct in the much-larger North American market and predominates throughout the rest of the English-speaking world.

I'm going to continue updating/adding content to this page based on comments made on the "H0 Scale" discussion page, which was originally here until Erik Baas moved it there six months ago. First up: someone asked about HO/OO compatibility? First paragraph.

Also changing "most of the world" line. The most popular scales in Japan and many non-anglo countries (i.e., France, Switzerland) are N and Z, and Germany is about evenly split between HO and TT. In truth, HO's predominance only extends to the rest of the English-speaking world.


 * "The name is derived from the fact that its 1:87 scale is approximately half that of 0 (zero) scale, hence H0. 0 scale in turn was named following the older and larger 1, 2, and 3 scales." - Erik Baas (talk) 12:09, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Erik, interesting historical tidbits do not take precedence over the authority of standards-bodies like the NMRA and overwhelming common usage by both manufacturers and modelers across the English-speaking world. Bolding them doesn't change that fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.90.45.10 (talk) 12:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "Interesting historical tidbits" ? Do you even know what the word fact means ? - Erik Baas (talk) 14:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Why yes, as a matter of fact I do, and it's a fact that the NMRA and the overwhelming majority of modelers agree that it's "HO Scale." Hence my continued undoing of your undoings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.90.45.10 (talk) 03:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with 68.90.45.10 here. If the NMRA says that it's HO, it's HO. It may have once been correct to refer to it as H0, but currently, the majority use HO, and Wikipedia should go with that. --clpo13(talk) 04:24, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You can't change a name just because a lot of people pronounce it the wrong way: the scale is called "H0", the only problem is that this "0" is pronounced "O" by some English speakers (and nobody else !); also see de:Nenngröße_H0 ! - Erik Baas (talk) 13:16, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Erik, this is the English Wikipedia. It exists by and for English speakers. How the German Wikipedia spells it is immaterial; I'm not going on there and changing their article title to "HO" just because that's what's correct in the US/Canada/Australia. Cultural differences are GOOD. Diversity is GOOD. And in the US, Canada, and a majority of the English-speaking world, it's H-alpha-O, as defined by both common usage *and* the rulemakers (i.e. NMRA). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.90.45.10 (talk) 13:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So, according to you, we now have scales 3, 2, 1, 0 and HO ? Rediculous... - Erik Baas (talk) 14:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC) P.S.: Please sign your somments wirh four tildes ( ~ ); thank you.
 * Well, no, actually, per NMRA standards O scale is also spelled with an alpha O. So you've got HO, O, OO, and 1 gauge. 2 and 3 are defunct.68.90.45.10 (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC) See — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.90.45.10 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 30 January 2009

[Outdent]: Erik Baas is clearly correct on historical facts, but 68.90.45.10 is correct on Wikipedia policies and guidelines; per WP:COMMONNAME, the article should favor "HO", with "H0" given as an alternative name, and the text of the article should explain the matter. There is really nothing to argue about. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 04:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)