Talk:Habonim Dror

Former Habos
Look, no more former habos added until someone can cite a source. Otherwise we're just going to get all kinds of rumored former habos and no one will be able to tell who's real and who's fake. Golda Meir and Sascha Baron Cohen are common knowledge, but Matt Drudge? I don't believe that at all. Redzuny 16:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC) Matt Dudge was a camper at Moshava. It is hard to believe but it is unfortunately true.

The situation is not so bad as it appears from this comment. I have improved much of the history both in content and writing quality. My source is the archives of the kibbutz ha-meuchad vemushtaf combined movement at Yad Tabenkin, near Tel Aviv Israel. Historical data is now corrected. May 2011.

Clean-up
The page is in the most desperate need of a clean-up. I am knowlegeable in Habonim Dror North America, but I don't want to dominate the entire thing with HDNA and would love to see other countries...

Error Note I can not fix
Go to Famous Graduates. Howard Bernstein links to the wrong Howie, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Bernstein instead of the correct Howie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_B. Thanks for correcting this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.32.4.235 (talk) 14:42, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Advertisement
Lets not put in advertisements and phone numbers, wikipedia is an encylopedia, not a glorified flyer. Perhaps add an external link at the bottom of the page?

Advertisement
Well, we're a youth movement, not a historical entry in an encyclopedia! I'll relent on the phone number, but external links I think should be there.

Machanot
I go to Moshava outside of Maryland. I know that HDNA runs 8 summer camps throughout the US and Canada, and I think they are an important part of the youth movement. Perhaps another section dealing with the machanot, or another article completely? --Simon 01:27, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

THere are 7 camps in North America: Gilboa, Miriam, Gesher, Tavor, Naaleh, Galil and Moshava. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.191.211 (talk) 04:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Split up this page
this page will work a lot better if each country had their own wikipedia article where they could talk about their ideology and other specific features. This page should only talk about what we have in common, such as hagshama and kibbutz etc. and should also talk about the history of habo and the merger etc.

Someone else do it. I don't really know how -- from 60.225.9.28 (talk contribs)


 * Nonsense. You say we, implying that this is Habonim's ad to the world. That's not the case. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and thus--while Habonim Dror is a significant organisation in the world, having affected at least a few thousand lives--the individual world organisations cannot surely deserve their own articles. Not even an organisation like the World Trade Center gives pages for each of its branches; other organisations, for example the Australian Stock Exchange have much less detail than Habonim... why should Habonim feature so prominently on Wikipedia?
 * In my opinion, the material here is just unnecessary overload. It is written for a Jewish/Zionist/Habonim audience, rather than the general encyclopaedia-browsing population, and is written wholly from Habonim's perspectives. I think that it would be most worthwhile to cut the page down to a few paragraphs on history, ideology, and modern organisational structure / operation. In each of these, where relevant, notes can be left highlighting some of the international differences, without reprinting entire constitutions. --jnothman talk 08:19, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

There are 14 countries on the list where HaboDror is viable. You will find them on the 90 years of Habonim Celebration video Macrocompassion (talk) 11:18, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

"Semel"
Hi,

What's so special about the Semel, that it must be mentioned in its Hebrew name? "Semel" is just a Hebrew word for emblem. The page for Israel doesn't mention that the Menorah is a "Semel", it simply calls it "Coat of Arms". So is it any more special than the symbol if Israeli Boy Scouts or Bney-Akiva?--Amir E. Aharoni 07:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Not at all... I think the reason it's in there is that members of Habonim, although speaking languages other than Hebrew refer to the semel as a semel and not an emblem... I'm pretty apathetic as to whether it stays semel or just emblem. jnothman talk 08:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

what about something to do with Miller 18 and Dror since Dror redirects here?

The semel or "coat of arms" shown is that for Dror and there is also one for Habonim. There is not one for both together and I suggest that both should be shown insted of only one. Macrocompassion (talk) 07:35, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

South Africa Membership
To help resolve a petty edit war on the Bnei Akiva page, it would be helpful if someone could post a reliable figure for the number of members Habonim Dror has in South Africa.

Thanks, --Dweller 08:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Dweller, please assume good faith. It was not an edit war; just a couple of reverts by an inexperienced editor. Anyway, how about calling both of the "one of the largest" and leaving it at that? I don't think anyone would disagree. Ayinyud 12:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * OK. Will do. --Dweller 12:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello everyone, i´m a madrij in Habonim Dror Agerntina, and all i have to say is that the writter forgot that Habonim Dror EXISTS in Argentina (we have 300-400 members in the country) as well in Uruguay. Ale ve Hagshem--Alanch90 19:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible deletion
There could be a legitimate place for an article on this organisation in an encyclopedia, but as it stands this article doesn't contain a single reference, is edited almost entirely by members of the organisation or affiliated organisations, is used as a soapbox (wp:SOAP), is written in rhetorical language, and probably qualifies for what wikipedia is not (wp:NOT) Denito (talk) 00:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

This page should not be removed as the movement exists in 17 country and has a major influence on the lifes on it's members. Therefore it is important for members of Habonim Dror, as well for others to be able to read about the history of Habonim Dror and what the movement entails at the moment. May i only note that 'Holland' and 'The Netherlands', as proud as i am to be noted twice they are the same country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.137.57 (talk) 13:35, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Southern Africa section
Section edited and referenced. Information now updated and accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.139.111 (talk) 20:57, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Correction to Habonim Starting Date and Details
Unlike what has been written in many places including the book about Wellesley Aron, Habonim was founded by him with Norman Lourie and Chaim Lipshitz. In 1928 Wellesley's contribution was in writing memoranda to the Zionist Federation and existing Jewish Youth organizations. Although he claims it as November 1928, actually the first meetings were early 1929. Before Habonim was named in spring 1929, Chaim (actual name Hyman S.) Lipshitz, as founder had regular organized meetings of boys at his father's Cheder (school room) where Modern Hebrew was taught along with songs and dances of the Jewish settlers in Palestine, Jewish history and various games.

The first meeting Wellesley reported, in a letter to Dr. S. Brodetsky on 11th January 1929 mentioned that only 5 people attended but that Norman Lourie (the third foumder) called a larger meeting for the following week (10th January) where representatives from at least 7 Jewish youth organizations were present at a meeting that he called in London at 77 Great Russel Street EC1. England was the center of political Zionism at that time, after the Balfour Declaration in 1917 had with "His Majesty's Government favourably viewed the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine" (under British mandate at this time).

However the new youth movement Habonim (or the Builders) was deliberately made non-Zionist. In 1929 the first Gedud (group)Trumpeldor was begun in Stepney, which was a poverty-struck part of London's East End. Chaim Lipshitz was its Rosh (head or leader), with assistance from Norman and advise and termonolgy being developed through a committee run by Wellesley. In May 1929 the first 27 page hand-booklet detailing how Habonim was to function was published by Wellesley with help in the mimeographing of 150 copies during one night (unofficially at the Zionist Headquarters), from Norman (Nachum) Lourie and his lady friend Nadia, whom he later married. They both went to Norman's home country South Africa in 1930 to establish Habonim branches in various towns and countries in that continent. a group of youngsters and taught them Modern Hebrew, songs and dances of the Jewish settlers in Palestine.

This information was gleaned by David Chester from the Habomim Archives in Yad Tabenkin, Ramat Efal, near Tel-Aviv. There is lots more and the website associated with Habonim and Wellesley both need up-dating. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.65.139.173 (talk) 11:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Comprehensive History of Habonim
Unfortunately the current page does not convey the amazing contribution made by Habonim to both Israel and the home countries of the various branches of the movement. This is partially due to the fact that the contributors seem to be for the most part younger (under 50) veterans. So they are not familiar with the events pre-1960 when the movement was at its peak.

For instance in Habonim UK there is hardly any mention of the various educational institutions run by Habonim such as the Hachsharot, The Institute, The war-time hostels, the camps and others. If anything is mentioned it is is a just a passing note. Yet it is these activities that made Habonim great. The activities of young teenagers in the UK in the 30's, 40's and 50's left a heritage that is of core importance not only to Israel also to Jewish communities around the world. Ex-Habonimniks are to be found everywhere as active members of their communities.

There already exists a book "History of Habonim in Great Britain 1929-1951" It does not mention the other 2 founders Chaim and Nachum and misses out other important matters too. But it does contain some more facts including the name of the Habonim doctor who served on the "Exodus". There are also some interesting details and photographs about the 3 different training farms in the UK over this period. We need to convey to future generations the incredible educational value that derived from the phenomenon of youth movements run by young people for young people. Regardless of where we ended up, there is little doubt that for most of us, Habonim was critical to building the ideals and values that have lasted a lifetime.

I am attempting to build a history of Habonim UK covering the highlights. Others will have to do it with their movements. Originally I thought it should be done on a separate article called "Habonim UK" with links to this Habonin Dror page. Now I am not sure. So for the moment I will add it to this page.

Any comments will be welcome. Ahadbenami (talk) 15:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Habonim Dror and it′s sister movement in Israel
Habonim Dror′s sister movement in Israel is HaNoar HaOved VeHaLomed. This should be updated on the main info of the page.

Any comments will be welcome. User:anonymous 9:54, 13 December 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.138.96.52 (talk)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170706063204/http://habonimdror.org.il/About.aspx?ProdID=2 to http://www.habonimdror.org.il/About.aspx?ProdID=2

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Proposed merge with Haboniem-Dror beHolland
Proposing merger. There is a huge overlap. The article is about the country section but the movement is covered in what looks like a fork. gidonb (talk) 03:13, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I want to disagree with Gidonb, however, I do understand why a merge could be in order. I had to write the page for a school project and I need it to be a standalone page because the teacher won't grade it if it isn't. Furthermore, the page is quite extensive with Haboniem-Dror beholland specific information. Instead of a merge, I propose that the page remains on itself and a resume is added to the habonim Dror page. I hope to have informed you enough. Thank you in advance for any comments. Ykarman (talk) 18:11, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Ykarman, what do you mean with resume? Also did you see the chapter section at the youth movement page? Aside from your school year that has ended, why would this be the wrong solution for the Wikipedia article you created under the name "Haboniem-Dror beHolland"? gidonb (talk) 13:26, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment. See precedent for merger. gidonb (talk) 13:34, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge - definitely agree with Gidonb's analysis.  Onel 5969  TT me 11:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge as per Gidonb. Catrìona (talk) 04:00, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge as per Gidonb. I am in favor as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.138.96.52 (talk) 09:23, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 13:35, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Builders of freedom?
It could be translation of בוני הדרור but here are two words which don't come together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.116.89.165 (talk) 22:21, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

big picture?
hi, i went to jewish summer camp, but we just went kayaking and sang songs! some stories about israel, but nothing about socialism or labour movents or the woes of western society, afaicr!

so...are these camps rarities, in that sense? is it like 5% or 10% or w/e of jewish camps that are politically motivated? are there equiv camps on the other side -- preaching capitalism and freewill and all that?

or is the "socialism" here historical, even at HD? are they basically just kayaking and archery nowadays, same as every other camp, jewish or not? 66.30.47.138 (talk) 16:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Correction to songs name
Under "Socialism" there are mentioned two songs. The first Od Lo Gamarnu (עוד לא גמרנו) is incorrect. These Hebrew words are part of the second song Hatikva. The first song actually was and is "Shir Techazakna", which is about being strong and filled with a good spirit for success. Macrocompassion (talk) 09:31, 28 April 2023 (UTC)