Talk:Haile Selassie/Archive 4

GA Nominee
If any body can help me add more descendants in the "Issue" Section it will be greatly and very much appreciated! After this i think deleting the descendants section is upcoming CtasACT (talk) 01:38, 16 December 2023 (UTC)


 * All of his children are already listed there. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:24, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thats not the problem, im just suggesting putting his children/grandchildren in a template box in this new section called "Issue" is better than the text. featured articles like Elizabeth II and George VI and exc have the template box. The descendants section will most likely be deleted after the box is finished laying out the descendants. CtasACT (talk) 04:35, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

So as you can read from the Title, the major parts of the Article are finished, the only parts which are really needed is getting more citations, citations of high quality sources directed at the problem, there are a couple of missing citations, and second we must make it as neutral as possible, opinion pieces are not what you can call "high quality" unless of course its directed at "Legacy" section which i added, or public/media opinions about Selassie I. So i hope other editors can help me add sources, since it seems i am the only one editing here CtasACT (talk) 03:37, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so the article is not as I thought, it needs major fixing, i had initially thought it was virtually finished, but no, the Legacy part will need to be expanded well more with at least over 500 words. With multiple citations. The Article in simple words is not "perfect" and i want to make it as perfect as possible to, yes: and i don't want to be seriously the only one contributing, since the effects aren't being felt yet, so join in! CtasACT (talk) 07:21, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Sections
What is supposed to be the difference between "sources" and " bibliography"? Uncle G (talk) 02:02, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for notifying me, the sources should be deleted and inputted in the bibliography section only, this can be seen in Elizabeth II article where only references, notes, and the bibliography appear and not a source, thanks very much! CtasACT (talk) 18:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Removing the Sources breaks existing references. You must stop doing it. DuncanHill (talk) 02:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * as far as I can see everything in "Bibliography" should really be in "Further reading". "Sources" contains the sources called by short-form references in the text. DuncanHill (talk) 03:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I was fairly sure that one of them was superfluous to one or both of the other two, just not which way their contents should be migrated. &#9786;  Uncle G (talk) 06:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Bad Faith Editing
I'm confident that this page has been extensively edited by one Petar Vukotic, a Serbian-American Rastafarian convert internet personality, to undermine accounts of human rights abuses and misrule by Haile Selassie's regime. User:Czar_Petar_I's contributions (such as changing a mention of "Harari people" to "Harari criminals") are consistently skewed against opponents of Selassie and cite, in several places, an article by Petar Vukotic on the apparently defunct website Rastafari Coalition.

If Czar Petar and Petar Vukotic are the same person, this is a clear violation of the policy against original research-and if they somehow aren't, this article is buttressing bold claims about the culpability of the Ethiopian state with religious apologia. Kolonokavi (talk) 17:06, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Have no idea if those two are the same person, but could you reference the exact section of the article that needs to be fixed, will sure be willful, but clearly won't add words as "regime" a more neutral world would be "administration" unless used from a quoted source which repeats the same thing. Other than that, a two side of the story would be better than Haile Selassie was a 'dictator' or was a 'good' person rather a neutral article is needed for that specific section which highlights both sides CtasACT (talk) 00:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The section of the article affected by the specious Vukotic article spans from the 1970s subheading to the Revolution subheading. Kolonokavi (talk) 02:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As for the descriptions of Selassie's Ethiopia as a regime, I apologize, I throw that around as a pretty neutral descriptor but I see the connotation. Kolonokavi (talk) 02:11, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, sorry for the late response, i have deeply read which parts you referred to and they seem to be fine, so i simply just will request humbly of you to edit the parts you feel to violate Wikipedia's neutral standpoint policy, and i have good belief (if you choose to edit) that they would be of good faith: As i said i do not know who these two or one for all i know individual(s) are, so i will try to say it will be better if you remove or add context in the 1970s section, than it is for me, because i haven't clearly been able to identify any rule breaking. So add or remove anything you believe violates Wikipedia's policies CtasACT (talk) 02:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No worries will try to fix any propaganda problems, by tomorrow should be all fixed CtasACT (talk) 02:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Kolonokavi, its most likely them since they posted the same "1957 penal code" from this articles talk page on their instagram. . I've edited out the parts in the 1970s onwards section that you were concerned about. Magherbin (talk) 03:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Remove contradicting statement
User:CtasACT, Languages were indeed banned, why did you restore the content? I've discussed this already in the talk page. see here. What does the reference state? Post the quote because I cant see any of the three references. The regime used underhanded policies hence using the constitution to refute this is not appropriate as I explained to the other user. For ex: "Emperor Haile Selassie followed a secret policy of controlling and limiting the promotion of high ranking officers of Oromo origin". Magherbin (talk) 02:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Again that is highly debated, legally speaking as the Sources have stated no laws were published through Parliament or Imperial Decree which "officially" banned languages, the Wiki pages highlights that those two must be differed. You are going in the realm of allege, we must differ that, and find the middle ground, the middle ground is that de-facto there maybe a case of banning any languages, but at an official level no laws were passed during the Emperor's administration which did such a thing. CtasACT (talk) 03:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * So per Wikipedia's neutral policy the original Wiki seems fine highlighting both sides of the alleged side and official legal aspect CtasACT (talk) 03:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not going in the "realm of allege" when Oxford published articles state so. Why did you remove the oxford source that I added in? . Can you quote one of the references that you restored? Would like to know the context. Magherbin (talk) 03:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, please give your side, we are trying to get to the bottom of this, i did not add any of those top references they simply where there before i even edited the Haile Selassie article, to my understanding three sources which other users added claim to suggest no laws officially banned languages, again please clarify if those sources published by previous users is legally accurate CtasACT (talk) 03:42, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In my understanding citation #20-22 claim " there was never an official law or government policy that criminalised any language" any sources which legally contraindicate them or the sources never state such a thing? CtasACT (talk) 03:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Citation errors
The SFNs link to sources titled "Safire 1997", "Selassie 1999", and "Clarke 1986", but return Harv errors; none of these sources are listed in the bibliography. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:44, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I fixed Safire and Selassie. Fixing Clarke et al involves copying over sources from Rastafari, and making all that work puts me a bit over my skis. I don't have much editing experience with these kinds of references. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 23:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
 * This just passed a GA review? Was this done properly? 204.237.51.5 (talk) 00:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There are these issues plus a number of other citation errors to clean up, for sure. Perhaps the article could be GA with all of these not perfectly tidied up, but it definitely couldn't be a Featured article at this point. At any rate, all citations should be cleaned up as soon as possible. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 00:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think we should module the citations as Jomo Kenyatta, or Liz Truss which are featured articles. I thank you for fixing the citations i would also join when i have time ad fix the formatting! It passed the GA by the quality per WP:RS of the sources not necessarily the formatting which i guess distinguishes a GA from a FA. But i will help and clean it up with the format, and i believe even the news sources should be added in the sources section so that it can be properly linked up as the featured articles like Kenyatta, and Truss! CtasACT (talk) 15:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * and CtasACT (talk) 15:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

"Defender of the Faith" infobox
Is there a source for this? I admittedly don't know much about this subject, but I do know we need a source if one isn't yet provided. Stefen Towers among the rest!  Gab • Gruntwerk 02:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Sure, He was acknowledged by the Oriental Churches in their first conference as the "Defender of the Faith" due to his contributions in the unity in the Orthodox churches in 1965. I linked the first source in the Infobox, you could add the Guardian if you want so CtasACT (talk) 04:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Others sources by Academic Article The New York Times reports "The King of Kings, Elect of God, Defender of the Faith and Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia" Source: The World so 4 sources in total agree of the Title CtasACT (talk) 04:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, from the parts I can readily access, this clearly was seen as one of his titles. Thank you. It probably would be useful to explain how and when this title was conferred to him in the prose. And more cites that are easier to access than a book can't hurt. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 05:21, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Name "Haile Selassie", proper usage?
From the way his name is used in much of the article, it seems clear to me that calling him simply "Selassie" is incorrect regardless of circumstances, and that "Haile Selassie" is already the shortest possible form of this name. Is that true?

(I see that my question has interrupted someone else's footnotes; unfortunately I don't know how to fix it.) TooManyFingers (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Fixed above. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 17:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)