Talk:Hal Jordan/Archive 1

Introduction "Controversy"
"Controversy erupted among comic book readers in 1994 when Hal Jordan became supervillain Parallax and Kyle Rayner replaced him as the Green Lantern"

Not sure that this line about the "controversy" surrounding the creation Kyle Rayner even belongs in the introduction about Hal Jordan, a character that's been around for some 50 years. This one "event" hardly sums up or helps establishes what the character is about. Which is what you would want in an intro statement.

In lieu of moving it right away though, since some may disagree, for now I'm going to at least change it so it more accurately conveys what the "controversy" was actually about. Although I think it really should be moved to the more appropriate "Modern Ere" category that's was added bellow.
 * I reworked this bit to make it more NPOV. -Armaced (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Need help with publication history
NEED HELP! I've just about completed my publication history for 1959-1974 & 1990-2005 and will be posting it soon. If anyone has relevent information regarding editorial, writing, artistic, and other publication events between the years of 1974-1990, your imput would be greatly appreciated. You would be saving me a great deal of research.

Categories
User Spookyadler insists on adding categories -- Green Lantern villains, Fictional mass murderers and Heroes Who Turned Evil -- which IMHO, after Rebirth, are no longer valid. Jordan's reasons in turning to villany were explained as he was possessed. period. Lesfer 16:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

-sinestro is listed as Category:Green Lantern Corps yet that hasn't been "current" for years. The fact is the character was a Green Lantern villain for several years, and was a "fictional mass murderer" (still is. it was his hands that killed no matter the reason). Therefore the categories are as valid as you putting "fictional aviators" and "fictional americans." The article itself explains why Jordan is listed under those categories. Spookyadler 17:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If we start going this way it's going to be a mess. Following this line, Jay Garrick is supposed to be listed as a JSA villain once he was the who who killed the original Mr. Terrific (Terry Sloane). He was possessed by the Spirit King, but it was his hands that killed Sloane. And this is only one example. There are many others for sure. Lesfer 18:35, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That's not the same thing as with Hal. Jay was written to be taken over in that story. Hal was changed to a villain by an editorial mandate and remained that way for several years until new editors decided to issue a new mandate.

Therefore Hal Jordan should be listed as a villain for Green Lantern, he should also be listed as a Corps Member and a Green Lantern hero (if such a category exists). Spookyadler 19:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It is exactly the same thing. It doesn't matter who was written to what purpose. The Publication History has to be told in the article itself, and not through categories. The character's history is: Some years ago he became a villain and recently was revealed he was actually possessed. Therefore he's not responsible. Simple as that. Lesfer 20:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No, not quite that simple actually. The "fear" entity which became Parallax was only allowed to exert more influence over Jordan has he allowed his guard to drop.  He was implicitly responsible on some level for allowing the entity to exert control over him, Johns is quite clear on this point in the narrative.  In addition, the earlier Jordan actually battled Parallax when he jumped into the present day, so technically he is both a Rayner and Jordan villain. Netkinetic 04:49, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Guys, I applaude the fact that you are working this out on the talk page, that's great. But I'd like to insist that you refrain from reverting the article while you are at it. As we say, very few things on Wikipedia are truly that urgent that they can't wait for a discussion on the topic to be concluded. I know how easy it is for us to get invested on something on Wikipedia, but we must keep perspective, since it will usually save us time and the aggravation. Right now, you are both half way from a 3RR violation on this article. There's no need for that: if the article stays in/out of a category for a couple of days, there's no real harm done. Thanks, Redux 23:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to alter the page to make him appear as a villain. I'm not moving the Parallax picture to the main one at the top. I'm just making sure there are accurate categories listed at the bottom. For several years, when Hal showed up, he was a villain. Therefore its relevant to list him as one. Anyone who is confused by that listing can read the article to understand Hal's history.

Spookyadler 05:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * aff... whatever... Lesfer 15:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * well since you seem to have given up any actual debate on this matter, I'll assume you won't keep trying to alter the page to "your" vision.

thanks. Spookyadler 17:49, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No I won't. You can keep "your" vision. Lesfer 17:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Spookyadler, just an fyi that Lesfer may not change the main page, however his fellow Brazillian "friends" from Rio de Janeiro 201.17.109.212 and 201.17.92.140 may, as "they" seem to have a pattern of erasing items rather than build consensus (see their joint effort, for instance, on Effron_the_Sorcerer and DC_Multiverse). Curious how they have the same interests and make the similar reverts. They must "know" each other well. ;) Netkinetic 18:23, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah! Really curious! Go take a nap, Nancy Drew. Spookyadler, relax, man. I said I won't edit, therefore I won't edit. Lesfer 18:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox streamlining
In regards to the edit of this character's "Notable Powers" section of the Infobox, please see revelant topics at WikiProject Comics/templates and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics. Thanks. dfg 18:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Categories
I assume there were categories here, but looks like a vandal removed them from the article. Could someone replace them? --DanielCD 21:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Note on isse title.
While issues 76 through 122 of the second series had "Green Lantern/Green Arrow" on the cover, the title in the indencia, the legal copy on the first internal page, did not change. and

I've changed the image captions based on this. — J Greb 03:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NewdawnTPB.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Jordan pacheco.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:GreenlanternemeralddawnTPB.jpg
Image:GreenlanternemeralddawnTPB.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:GreenlanternemeralddawnIITPB.jpg
Image:GreenlanternemeralddawnIITPB.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Merge Alternate versions of Green Lantern

 * merge/nom - The section that was split from original article by an ambitious editor to form a new "Alternate versions" article for all the characters. This section fit well in the article and does not overpopulate it, and does not need to be split off to form a stub article. It's a detriment to the original article, and at this point the alternate versions article does not need to exist. 66.109.248.114 21:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * support remerge - these should have never been split, especially w/o discussion. Characters like Gardner and Stewart were never THE Green Lantern, only A Green Lantern -- 69.182.73.240 05:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * support merge -- User:Redhead911 unilaterally created article without discussion with other editors, circumventing the consensus process. --Tenebrae 19:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Support merge - As noted above, the characters are not alternate versions Green Lantern, they are other characters who have used the name green lantern. And based on the page's current criteria, it would eventually duplicate Green Lantern. - jc37 21:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Support - As per above. Also, as with most of the resent bold splits (lots of alts and other media), this took what could be seen as a relevant section and made it into what comes close to a "Trivia only" article. - J Greb 22:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge - there is no reason for the alternate versions entry as they all (rightly) have their own articles and the main Green Lantern article already holds them all together. (Emperor 22:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Discussion closed with consensus to merge. 66.109.248.114 23:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Versions
As, in many people's minds, "The" Green Lantern, Hal seems to be the "dumping ground for Alternate Verions for Green Lantern (Bruce Wayne-as-GL, Hal's grandson, etc)... but these are not Hal. Duggy 1138 (talk) 05:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * For a start, if Hal was "The" Green Lantern, then this article would be so titled with Green Lantern being retitled "Other Green Lanterns". It isn't, and it won't be since such a move would be putting fan-boy desires over encyclopedic realities.
 * Next, in line with the exemplars, either as they currently stand or as the re-visit is shaping up, the section should be "Alternate versions" and that is of this character, not of Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent (yeah, another one that should be yanked from her and moved to the AV section of Green Lantern), but Hal Jordan. As alternate versions go, 8 of them that are currently there list information about a Hal Jordon in alternate settings, and one is the standing Bizarro trope. The last, JLA/Avengers, was treated as an in continuity "alternate timeline".
 * Separating of each with a header is also problematic. Between the 11 (10 w/o the AV Clark) sub heads in the AV and the 14 in the FCB, the ToC box is nearly worthless. The FCB is an issue for a different thread though. With the AV, most of the sections are one or two lines, making it very hard to see a header being needed.
 * Miscellaneous points:
 * The Bizarro Lantern can be expanded a little: the original, "Yellow Lantern", was first seen in "The Bizarrobuster Is Loose" in Action Comics #379 (Jan 1983).
 * The "Captain Marvel's world" can likely be removed from the description of the post-52 Earth-5 version.
 * New Frontier and Red Son should either have the post-52 Earth designations removed, or it made clear that the settings of those stories were used to template the new Earths. That also means that the Earth-30 Hal has yet to appear.
 * - J Greb (talk) 03:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: "We need a good ending for scene"
Hello, I just wanted to drop a note about your comment from within the Sinestro Corps War section of the article. I have reworded your closing sentence this time, instead of removing it as I did last time. But, while I agree that it's important for scenes within fiction to have a good endings, we are not writing fiction here; we are writing about fiction. Consequently, I personally don't feel it is necessary to tell readers that Hal & company went on to further adventures. That will be self-evident as summations of those adventures are added to this article. So, in my view, this information is not a vital addition to the article. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 23:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

sections that need writing

 * We really need some background on Emerald Twilight - Jones original storyline, the fact that in-house ads were published for it, that it was then scrapped at the last minute etc etc...


 * There is a gap between the end of the O'neil run and the early 1980s, anyone care to have a go at filling it out. --Cameron Scott (talk) 18:00, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we need a Fictional Character History for Hal, other characters have it he should too.--Ryu Klinge

Willworld
Willworld, which was about the 2001 Green Lantern special issue, was about to be deleted as a proposed deletion. I turned it into a redirect here, but I don't have the expertise to merge in the previous content. Please salvage what you can. If this issue was notable enough, resurrect the article and beef it up so it's not nominated for deletion again. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  00:13, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I am about to unmerge - please hold while I reconfigure space-time.... --Cameron Scott (talk) 00:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Hair Color: Red Hair vs. Brown Hair
Hal is sometimes drawn with red hair (as in the SuperFriends cartoon) and sometimes drawn with brown hair.

Should that be noted somewhere in the wiki page? And does anyone know why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackal242 (talk • contribs) 06:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

No it shouldn't. The reason is because the light brown (red) at you call it shows up better on tv than the darker brown tone. It's the same reason why Batman was originally depicted as a bluish costume and Superman's hair always had blue in it. Pure black didn't convert well to ink. You lose a sense of dimension and the character looks flat.129.139.1.68 (talk) 18:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Translation into Chinese Wikipedia
The 11:18, 16 October 2011‎ 93.152.144.85 version of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia to expand an existing stub translation.--Wing (talk) 18:54, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Alter ego?
I've started a discussion regarding the appropriate use of the Alter ego field here. Interested parties should present their views at the linked discussion. DonIago (talk) 15:26, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Hal Jordan name
the alter ego in the box should be Hal Jordan24.38.188.96 (talk) 15:56, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Not based on the discussion linked immediately above this thread. DonIago (talk) 16:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

People in the wiki project comics should also decide. 24.38.188.96 (talk) 18:11, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to refer them here or to that linked discussion. I wouldn't object to feedback from additional editors. DonIago (talk) 18:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Doniago, Hal Jordan is his real name. His alter ego or alternate persona is Green Lantern.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Hal Jordan looks better 24.38.188.96 (talk) 20:44, 23 December 2014 (UTC) Carol Danvers has Carol Danvers in the alter ego line. Not Captain Marvel or Ms. Marvel.24.38.188.96 (talk) 20:50, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF. Just because another article has handled the field in a certain way doesn't mean it was handled in the best way in that case or even that it was handled correctly in that case. Perhaps that article should also be updated. DonIago (talk) 05:03, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Carol Danvers is fine the way it is.24.38.188.96 (talk) 09:38, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Doniago; using an infobox field to just repeat the article's title doesn't make sense. I think in cases like Carol Danvers, Hank Pym, and Norman Osborn - where the character has multiple alternate identities, none of which clearly dominate the character's notability - we should omit the "alter ego" field and simply put all their alternate identities under the "aliases" field. In cases like Hal Jordan, using the character's main alternate identity (in this case, Green Lantern) for the "alter ego" field probably makes the most sense.
 * On a final note, I went ahead and edited Carol Danvers so that her full name appears in the "full name" field instead of the "alter ego" field. I did this without thinking, and I do realize that making such an edit while this discussion is still ongoing is out of order, so if anyone wants to revert that edit they should feel free to do so.--NukeofEarl (talk) 17:06, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me NoE. I was tempted to look at and possibly edit Carol Danvers myself but figured that probably wasn't the greatest of ideas. DonIago (talk) 17:11, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * maybe we should change the alter ego field to full name.24.38.188.96 (talk) 17:35, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * There's more than one Green lantern so it should say Harold Hal Jordan 24.38.188.96 (talk) 17:50, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * In this case the alter ego is correct, Hal Jordan's full name is not Green Lantern.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:56, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * it should not say Green Lantern, because his name is Hal Jordan.24.38.188.96 (talk) 19:03, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Hal Jordan was also Parallax and the spectre.24.38.188.96 (talk) 19:06, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Fictional biography
Do we even need this section? The publication history section already covers Hal's history from a real-world context. It was also copied from the DC Database, so it reeks of plagiarism. Leader Vladimir (talk) 23:52, 2 April 2017 (UTC)