Talk:Haley Industries

Please do not delete this page while it is being developed!!

Haley Industries is a notable entity. It was formed in 1952 and is also an historical entity. It is notable since, as a pioneering magnesium fabricator, it was a prime contributor to the Avro Arrow aircraft project. The Avro Arrow was notable since it was to be a pioneering Mach 2 supersonic fighter aircraft built in Canada. To alleviate concerns from foreign Wikipedia editors, reasons for the notability of this article will be documented. The defense of the notability of Haley Industries is now underway, and researchers are gathering to document historical references linking the Avro Arrow project and Haley Industries.

1. One of the first items that will be documented in the existence of Haley Industries. It appears that the actual existence of a corporation must be proved to underscore that it deserves notability in the eyes of Wikipedia editors. Therefore, a corporate search is being undertaken. This will take some time since the corporation no longer exists in its original form.

2. It appears that the fact that a corporation is a group of individuals acting together for the common good, must be documented in such a way to establish to the Wikipedia editors that the existence of a corporation is, in itself, reason for notability. Editor user:Davewild, for example, maintains that mere existence is "no indication of importance". Editor [user:rodhullemu] also appears to agree that corporations are not notable. Therefore, I am starting a project to determine at what point a public corporation ceases being notable and become unimportant to Wikipedia editors. The results of this project will become part of the Haley Industries article so that it will be better able to resist deletion for "no indication of importance" (the words of British WP editor [user:Davewild]).

3. There may be an undercurrent of nationalism and resentment in that the WP editors attacking the Haley Industries article are non-Canadians. Although the article contained an explanation of its importance, the British editor deleted the article regardless. There have been suggestions that European editors, in particular, believe that Canadian corporations are of "no importance." This behaviour has been seen before, but there is no evidence at the moment to support the suggestion that the Brit [user:Davewild] and the American [user:Philippe] have been acting out of national arrogance. Regardless, it will be necessary to establish their motives in deleting the Haley Industries article so quickly (without notifying the author) on such thin grounds.BomberJoe (talk) 21:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Offer of help
I'm sure this is a notable topic, but it needs more work before it will stand up as an article. I'll be happy to help, please reply here and I can guide you through how to draft an article that will stand the test of time. This presupposes that you have some information to hand which we can put here: if not, you may have to wait until your researches bear some fruit, otherwise you're just creating an empty shell which other editors will rightly say does not yet belong here. Kim Dent-Brown  (Talk to me)  21:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The article had a great deal of work in the first place! As far as I am able to determine, it appears to have been deleted by a British editor out of national arrogance or political hostility.  BomberJoe (talk) 22:05, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, this British editor will help see if we can't repair some of the damage. I can see from your contributions that you're not a brand new editor, but could I tactfully suggest that you may be at least partially responsible for the deletions? I gather one was a complete copyright violation which, as you know, is just not on. Also, attacking deleting admins is never a good policy: I always assume good faith, and a quick deletion is much more likely to be a mistake or 'more haste less speed' than some kind of nationalistic attack. Anyway, that's water under the bridge. Let's see if we can't write a solid article now. Kim Dent-Brown   (Talk to me)  22:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to know where I have ever "appear(ed)s to agree that corporations are not notable"; all I have done with this article is tag it as an apparent CopyVio. This would be a laughable allegation were it not so patently false, and I resent the implication that my intervention is somehow governed by considerations other than the best interests of the encyclopedia. -- Rodhullandemu  (please reply here - contribs) 02:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, we'll just have to try a little harder, won't we? One ought not hurl the CopyVio flag about the place without a proper understanding of copyright.  People get annoyed and bent out of shape, and the place is a bit of a mess afterward.  BomberJoe (talk) 16:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite - first draft completed
OK, I've trawled where I can on the www and I think the article just about stands up now. It has one ir two independent references. Could do with more refs, an infobox perhaps, more categories? I'll remove the 'under construction' tag and ask for feedback from editors who have been involved here. Kim Dent-Brown  (Talk to me)  17:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice work, it looks like a good basis for the article with good independent references. Davewild (talk) 18:53, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Czolgolz (talk) 18:54, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback folks, much appreciated. Now if I could think of a hook I might even be tempted to nominate it for a DYK!! Kim Dent-Brown   (Talk to me)  20:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The "hook" in journalism speak, is "Black Friday" (February 20, 1959) when the Avro Arrow was precipitously cancelled throwing tens of thousands of employees out of work and devastating the Canadian aerospace industry. In the Avro Aircraft Company and Avro Orenda plants a total of 15,000 employees were immediately laid off while a further estimated 30,000 other employees in the Avro Canada "supply chain" were also affected. Haley Industries was one of those companies that was swept up in the cancellation of the advanced supersonic interceptor and its accompanying Orenda Iroquois engine project. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 22:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC).