Talk:Half-Life 2/Archive 1

The Vivendi thing
The article had this backwards -- the issue was that VUG thought their distribution agreement applied to Cyber Cafes, therefore making it a breech of contract for Valve to supply Cyber Cafes using Steam. Valve won a summary judgement in November that basically threw out VUG's claim as the contract VUG and Valve signed is clearly worded on this point. So I edited this section to reflect this. mjlodge

Stop reverting edits without explanation.

Didn't the hacker(s) who stole the sourcecode admit it? Thought I read so newly.. Aquilo 01:17, 26 July 2004 (UTC)

Quote from the article: "many who have played builds made from the leaked source...". This is bullsh*t! Nobody can play the game only with the source code. Even if you get the source to compile cleanly (and I doubt that someone managed to do even this) the game would not run because all the DATA is missing (models, maps, menu images etc.) I remove this from the article now... if I missed something and the data files leaked too (*g*), please go back to the prev revision ;-) Littleendian 08:50, 19 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, the data files were leaked too. I'm not going to revert your changes myself though, as I feel the discussion about the source code leak should be rewritten entirely. Fredrik 10:22, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Hm, a web search gave controversal results. Some claim that data files were leaked, others say they didn't. But I guess that valve kept the datafiles "near" the source in order to be able to test changes in the code, and hence it's very likely that they leaked as well. I apologize. Littleendian 08:12, 20 May 2004 (UTC)


 * people on IRC at the time were adament that almost everything had been leaked.
 * I'm pretty sure that everything(source code, characters, maps, and sounds) was leaked. These things were taken from a machine used for the entire project and connected to the internet at the same time.  That's what I read.  --G3pro July 20th 2004
 * That's correct. I've .... I mean "a friend of mine" downloaded the leaked release back when it came out and it did have a playable mode, with textures and everything.  However, it was really bad quality, with basically zero AI and lots of other things missing.  (yes, I know this discussion is basically irrelevant now, but just to give a final answer) 203.206.52.100 16:16, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

is this link suitable?

I don't understand why Beta Leak is separate from the Source Code Leak. As far as I recall, the hacker copied the source and data files that were could be compiled into a playable version. I don't remember there being a second leak for the beta version (compiled, without source). If there was, it needs to be clarified (with a reference) in the article. If there wasn't, the two sections need to be combined. Also, I think the Source Code Theft should be renamed Source Code Leak, because it was not stolen, merely copied. Paranoid 17:44, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I figured they happened at the same time (and that the beta build was not created from the source code they grabbed), but that's just my educated guess.    Theft/leak: From what we know, theft fits better than leaked.  There was neither an insider nor an accidental posting to the web; someone cracked their network, copied their content, and posted it to the Internet.  --Mrwojo 18:54, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I really think we absolutely must have some references here, otherwise it's better to temporarily delete parts of the texts (no speculations should be included without being clearly marked such). As for the "theft" word, I am afraid it's misleading, since the reaction to the leak was literally "someone stole the Half-Life 2 source code, obviously, Valve would be unable to release the game". I am aware that it's difficult to find a proper noun for this, but still. Perhaps, it's better to combine both sections under code leak and realy on the text to explain that it was copied by a cracker. Paranoid 20:34, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree on both points. I'll accept a "Source code leak" heading if we avoid relying on the labels "leak" or "theft" in the text.  This would encourage the paragraphs to actually explain what is believed to have happened (i.e., the copied code was put online, was probably not complete enough to compile, etc.). --Mrwojo 21:53, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Steam...
A 'helpful' link to the website where you can pre-order the game was just added. I suspect this is against WikiPolicy, eh? Krupo 00:11, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)


 * Probably. Seems to have disappeared now. Lupin 00:14, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think that's pretty official and even important - see for example Evercat 00:14, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Anyhow there's a whole section of the article dedicated to the Steam pre-ordering... so the link seems entirely relevant to me... Evercat 00:16, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Good points, but I think the Steam mainpage is an excellent compromise. I changed the heading on Steam to make it more descriptive. For Wiki, I figure it's more important to describe Steam's significance rather than using a narrow focus on the pre-order. It's a pretty novel way of game distribution; one of the first large-scale systems of its type, no? That's what people will want to know in the future ("who started this online distribution craze?") rather than disconnected details about HL2 pre-orders. Nevertheless, it's cool to read about - I wasn't paying attention to this, so you brought it to my attention on Wiki - thanks. :) Krupo 01:14, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)


 * Speaking of Steam being significant, might it be worth adding that something about it being a form of Digital Rights/Restrictions Management? Note that it is very difficult for people to sell second-hand copies of Half-Life 2, as their CD-keys are tied to their Steam accounts. James Foster 04:01, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Apologies if the pre-order link wasn't appropriate. I'm still relatively new to updating here and thought it was kosher as an official link, since it couldn't be found directly on the front page. Now it occurs to me that since the app loads the link up, the front page will do just fine.jschuur

Motion sickness
Is it really "many" people suffering from motion sickness? Does anyone know how widespread the problem is? It'd be interesting to hear from Wikipedians who've played the game - personally, I've had no problems. --Sum0 21:52, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * No problems here. From what I can see, "many" get sick from first-person shooters, though HL2 might be recruiting new sickbag holders. ;-) (Also, do we really need the "Half-life 2 nausea syndrome" article?) --Mrwojo 00:25, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * People that usually get sick from playing FPS games don't buy HL2, this one affects players that do nothing else but play FPS games. I.E. the ones that whine on forums as soon as they die in a game. Philip Nilsson 12:26, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Resonance Cascade redirect
Why does Resonance Cascade redirect to Half-Life 2? There's no information here about it. EagleOne 19:55, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)


 * Dunno. I changed it to redirect to Half-Life instead. --Mrwojo 23:31, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Weapons
The "machine cannon" mounted to the airboat continuously replenishes its ammo, not just when it runs to zero. I'll correct this info unless someone cares to dispute this.
 * Well, JackCarter tried to clarify this, but I think it was a needlessly complicated change. I simplified it.

Screenshot illustrations
I removed the screenshot on the right from the article. The reason is that this is a promotional screenshot. The level where that it depicts was modified (as evident from the absence of the city fight episode showed in one of the promo videos from the finished game). I think it would be much better if an original screenshot was included. And it would be even better if that was not a full-screen screenshot, but a number of smaller cropped images illustrating various aspects of the game (but that's optional). Paranoid 18:13, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I also removed the links to screenshots and the remaining inline screenshot. I don't think the links really add to the article. And the remaining screenshot was a PR image, which may or may not fully correspond to the final game. Paranoid 01:28, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Developement
When did this game start being developed? Does the article state this?


 * According to the HL2 book, HL2 started development the moment Half-Life went gold. Jordi·✆ 01:00, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's important to mention the new Half-life 2 expansion coming out soon in the article. It seems fairly out of date.10:50 A.M., 27 Apr 2005

Wouldnt make sense to make another article for that expansion aswell? because the other expansions got articles. never mind it already has an article.

Can this be shortened?
This article is getting ridiculously long. I feel that it should probably be split into seperate articles, or simply shortened. -DynSkeet (talk) 15:33, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * I doubt it. There is just so much stuff on this game, but maybe it could be shortened up a bit. Thunderbrand 16:46, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Much of it is repeated elsewhere, however. Specifically, almost all information on enemies in this article is either in the Combine article or individual articles (Headcrab, Barnacle, Antlion).
 * Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the game, and in fact I'm replaying it right now. But the article is very unwieldy at this point, and I've encountered strange errors several times when trying to edit it due to its length. I'd like to see it settle down to a more managable size if possible. -DynSkeet (talk) 17:09, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * We could get rid of the Half-Life 2: Aftermath information. It seems like an awful lot to be on this page when it has its own article, and yeah, the "enemies" section can easily be done away with. Thunderbrand 17:44, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * I will second or third the shortening of this article. My first inclincation would be to cut the enemies section also to a minimum.  --Iosif 16:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I third or fourth it. Specifically, HL headcrabs/zombies already has their its own entry, so that could be removed, the rest of the enemies section could be parsed down a lot. The multiplayer section is essentially just explaining what deathmatch is, which already has its own entry, and the Aftermath section could also be removed, or just linked to its existing entry.---Jackel 15:10, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Even changing to enemies section to save space like the Chapters section would help. --Iosif 16:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The Steam content delivery section can be trimmed, since it has its own article.


 * We can most certainly trim down the enemies section, to just listing links to their respectable articles. I've also identified potential area(s) where we can separate the article:
 * List of weapons in Half-Life 2
 * Half-Life 2 development controversies and problems (combined with the part on Release problems, Motion sickness and field of view)
 *  Half-Life 2 multiplayer components 
 * I'm not really clear about the Reviews and Awards sections, though; they seem unnecessary, but are used in some other PC and video game articles. --25 20:27, 22 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I need an appropriate title for a new article that separates section 3 (Release problems), section 4 (Development controversies) and section 5 (Motion sickness and field of view) from this page. Any suggestions? --25 02:33, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Christ! That's a rather severe trimming. Has the cut material been put anywhere else? I think it should as many people (not me I should add) put a lot of time into it. And, compared to many other articles, the HL2 one is relatively tersely written - it just contains, or contained, a lot of subsections other entries don't have. Anyway, what's the plan? --Plumbago 09:02, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he took way too much out. The Half-Life article is longer than this one now! The chapters, weapons, and so forth should be put back in. Thunderbrand 19:39, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

By the way, huge thanks to those who worked to make the article tighter and more manageable. Duplication of information across several articles (like this one sported a few weeks ago) simply makes it impossible to keep everything accurate. Great work. -DynSkeet (talk) 12:41, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

"bizarre vandalism"
I am currently replaying HL2, as it's been a month or two since I first finished it. In the opening sections before the player leaves City 17, Dr. Breen clearly states on the video screens that the suppressor field is something the Combine are using to keep humans from reproducing.

Now, I haven't re-reached the section where Barney and Gordon attack the Citadel, but if they do indeed shut down a suppressor field, chances are it's the reproduction-inhibiting one. Could someone please verify what purpose the field in question served? -DynSkeet (talk) 02:42, May 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * The one you and Barney go shut down refers to a suppression device. Its that stupid high-arch energy mortar thing mounted on top of the Overwatch Nexus that made the ground near you explode as you zig-zagged across the courtyard to the building. The reproduction-inhibiter field is necessary as Dr. Breen reveals that the Combine have the technology to make humans immortal. And frankly, why do you need to reproduce when most of you can't die of natural causes? CABAL 07:11, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah-ha. Now I see what you're getting at (I'm responsible for the "bizarre vandalism" quote).  However, CABAL is right, the suppression device is a very obvious weapon that strikes at you as you cut over a courtyard into a "town hall" that the Combine now use as a base.  Reproduction inhibition is not its primary goal (though being zapped by it would certainly stop you from reproducing!).  Apologies if offence was caused re: my "bizarre" tagging.  --Plumbago 08:19, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * To be honest, it wasn't the "bizarre" that bothered me so much as the "vandalism". Perhaps the wording of the "Follow Freeman" section should be changed for clarification, since there is a separate suppression field mentioned early in the game. -DynSkeet (talk) 12:36, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Avalibility on XBox?
Has Half-Life 2 even been released on the xbox yet or did that go under my radar? If it hasn't, shouldn't the page state only Platform(s) 	PC, not Platform(s) 	PC, Xbox? Seems a bit misleading, if only minor. Saint Empire 22:46 May 27, 2005
 * Its upcoming, but that's pretty much it. CABAL 15:21, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * A port is at E3. So probably it will come out within a few months. Jordi·✆ 18:53, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

HL-Orwell comparisons
Not sure where to put this but...is there a deliberate reason for the story parallels with 1984 not being added? Everyone I've talked to who has played the game sees it (the Metrocops basically being the Thought Police, the secual repression, even the feel of the game). Was this some concious decision or reason, or has just no-one bothered? I'd be happy to write a bit for it.


 * Well, it's so obvious that it doesn't really need to be over-emphasized. But feel free to add it. Jordi·✆ 14:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)


 * By all means go ahead. We'll handle wiki-linking and text correction. CABAL 15:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)


 * My thanks to Nick R for tidying up my addition. I wrote it in kind of a rush, I suppose. Good wording on the bit about the supression field. Fuji606


 * Fixed this section up. I've tried to take everything that was already in it, before I came along, into account. Additions appreciated (although, it does seem a bit long... and not all of the game's setting has to do with totalitarianism). - Ashu8845


 * Whoa! There's now *way* too much stuff in the setting section.  Yes, the setting of HL2 shares some common features with Orwell's dystopia, but they're fairly obvious and don't need a superfluously long section about them.  Given that the article's just failed to become a featured article on account, among other things, of being too long, we need to be careful with additions.  Anyway, your mileage may vary, but I reckon the setting section should be trimmed a bit (or excised to a separate article - it's worthy enough).  --Plumbago 21:18, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed, mostly. I actually think sections 1.4 ("Notes on the narrative") and 1.5 ("Setting") should be merged into one comprehensive section that gives an impression of the overall feel of the game, including some of the design principles the Valve team had in mind when starting the Half-Life project. I'm not upto this task. - Ashu8845


 * There's a direct reference to 1984 in the game, in a rather subtle piece of graffiti depicting bombs falling onto oranges and lemons. (It's accompanied by the word 'ДЕЙ' in Cyrillic - no idea if that means anything, but it transliterates to 'DAY' in the Latin alphabet. There's also Latin 'DAWN' graffiti next to a picture of a Citadel...) 194.247.44.210 22:29, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm...never saw that. Good find. Thunderbrand 22:33, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * Further to my note from ages ago, I still think the "Setting" section is far too long. Also, there's a lot of turgid prose in there making 1984-to-HL2 links that aren't obvious from the game (though they may be discussed in the books and gameplay guides).  When this section was originally suggested, I envisioned a nice list of points (5 or 6) with a sentence or two describing and explaining each.  Now we've got a general treatise on dystopic totalitarian dictatorships - some of which seems (to me) pretty far removed from HL2 (or was I just focussing on killing things?).  Anyway, I may hack a bit, so just wanted to trigger some debate beforehand.  --Plumbago 7 July 2005 08:50 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it needs to be shortened up a lot now. The comparison is one of the reasons the article didn't make it to FA status. Thunderbrand July 7, 2005 14:46 (UTC)


 * Well, cut it up then. Ashu8845


 * OK, how about trimming to the following :


 * The use of Dr. Breen as a Big Brother-style figurehead for the Combine; in particular his frequent appearance on video-screens and posters across City 17
 * The vast and intrusive Overwatch surveillance system plays a similar role to the obiquitous telescreens in 1984
 * Widely-distributed Combine propaganda, such as the "evolution" posters (ape to human to Combine) seen throughout Half-Life 2
 * Citizens are forced to dress similarly and live in deprived conditions, all the while wary of a brutal police force
 * A rigid social hierarchy, protected and facilitated by a set of rules demanding conformity and obedience, where interactions between humans, trans-humans, the Combine and Xen life-forms are strictly regulated, similar to the separation of Party workers and proles in 1984
 * Loyalty to the Combine is encouraged by repeatedly stressing the hostile nature of the world outside City 17 ("it's safer here"), analogous to the demonisation of Eastasia and Eurasis by Oceania


 * I've tried to stick to the points where there's an obvious connection to 1984 rather than some general dystopic scenario. I won't add/edit until there's some debate.  And, obviously, please edit the above at will.  --Plumbago 8 July 2005 13:03 (UTC)


 * I'm amazed nothing's been done yet. If it's my approval or something that's needed, then I have no problems at all with this section of the article being altered. I admit it is overwrought. Edit at will.


 * The proposed rewrite looks fine. I think it would be nice, however, to merge "notes on the narrative" and "setting", like I mentioned earlier. Maybe add some information on what Valve intended to do in that respect, taken from the pages of "Raising The Bar" (haven't read it) or some other appropriate source. -- (Ashu8845) 220.236.140.92 14:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'll probably get to it later today if no one else gets to it before then. I need to re-read it a couple more times before I start removing stuff. Thunderbrand 14:51, July 19, 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry about the break in service - off on my hols. Back now so will try to edit down to what I outlined above.  Obviously re-edit what I do mercilessly.  --Plumbago 11:39, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Featured article nom.?
I was thinking of nominiating this game for Featured article candidates. Seeing how this is a rather important and notable game, and it has a ton of info, I thought it would make a good candidate. I think a few more screenshots need to be added, but would anyone else think so? Thunderbrand 17:56, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. It'd be a good choice with all the info it's got, and the bits on the development story are interesting. Fuji606


 * Its got my vote. Anyone else? CABAL 11:41, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think the first paragraph needs to be re-written a bit. The part where it talks about the Xbox version doesn't sound right when you read it. I dunno, maybe it should just say "A version for the Xbox will be released during the Summer of 2005." or something like that. I don't think regular people need to know what magazine it was featured in or when that version was announced precisely. Thunderbrand 15:53, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

I think the whole paragraph needs to be re-written. It sounds a bit clumsy. --Subtlesnake 18:58, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, I decdided to get it peer reviewed first before I nominate it, to see how other people think so far about it. Thunderbrand 19:02, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, the first two reviewers both said that the article needs to be shortened. I suggest that we move the info. about the release problems to its own page to free up some info.

Pending tasks for Half-Life 2:
 * 1. Shorten up article some more (specifically the release problems, IMO)
 * I've had a go at editing the Chapters text. What do you guys think? CABAL 12:26, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the Chapters section is fine the way it is, IMO. Thunderbrand 16:01, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about moving "development controversies", "release problems" and "motion sickness" sections into one article (Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms), with a short summary in the main article. Seeing the title itself for the new article smells of POV, I need some comments before I'll move any further. ++ 25 17:28, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. ++ 25 21:14, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) ++
 * Yes, that was exactly what I was talking about! I got the Game engine section shortened up and moved part of it to Source engine, so please go ahead. Thunderbrand 18:05, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * 2. Add some references and maybe inline references. See Footnotes for more info.
 * 3. Feel free to add anything else here

Thunderbrand 04:24, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I was going to reply there, but I'll do it here instead. First off, it badly needs references and inline referencing for verifiability; see What is a featured article. I agree with User:Mozzerati that it needs to be shortened as well. A few possible ways this can be achieved, (to be considered and possibly discussed, doesn't necessarily have to be done) off the top of my head is to merge "Chapters", "Plot", and possibly "Setting" (see GoldenEye 007 for an example). I also feel that certain sections are longer than what they really need to be like for instance, "Game engine". There's already an article on Source engine, a lot of that information in that section could be transferred there. Alternatively, you could merge this into a new section called "Development" where the article would go into discussion about the development of the game as well as the controversies. This can be similarly done with the sections "Steam" & "Release problems" → "Release". I also don't like how some sections in the article either have 'a' link or a small list such as "Enemies" and "Weapons". Work them into the article somehow and then if the link needs to be more standoutish, add it to a "See also" section at the bottom. Just for starters. K1Bond007 07:16, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with K1Bond007 that the info. on the Source engine could be put into the Source engine article, so I'll see to it. Thunderbrand 16:01, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I think we did a good job fixing the page up. Making it shorter, I think, helped a lot. Thanks to everyone who has helped and if you see anything that can be addressed, do so or comment here. Thunderbrand 03:05, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm going to have a go at truncating some of the other article components. There just seems to be so much that could be simplified using shortcut words. Any objections? CABAL 06:30, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * What parts specifically do you mean? As long as too much isn't taken out, go ahead. Thunderbrand 15:12, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

At the moment the page is inconstantly capitalised. I'm really not sure about capitalisation - should weapons and enemies have capital letters? --Subtlesnake 14:11, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * The enemies should be capitalized, since it is referring specifically to them, like Antlions. I guess it goes for some of the weapons. Thunderbrand 15:42, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Important:Well, it looks like the article isn't going to make it for FA. As of now, it's 3-1 oppose although it still could change. If anyone still wants to help out, please see the nomination page to see what needs fixed. Even if it doesn't make it, I'll resubmit it some other time, because I know this is a well-written article in my POV. Thunderbrand 05:31, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't and still don't feel this article is ready for FA status. I mean it's a good start, but a lot of stuff needs to be fixed and/or changed. This article needs to be badly restructured and organized better. It's really poorly done in that respect. In my initial peer review (which in hindsight I wish I would have been either more specific or just worded it better) I tried to allude to this by suggesting new sections and merging already existing ones together. I also mentioned the problem with small or pretty much empty sections, which was only somewhat addressed, although should have been merged instead of just making the section bigger (e.g. Enemies, Weapons). How about adding those two and information on the game's gameplay and calling the section "Gameplay"? Only the beginning... K1Bond007 06:35, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Screenshot spoilers
Given that there's a spoiler warning, plus a fairly complete description of what happens in HL2, it seems a bit odd to remove a screenshot from an early point in the game. What gives? --Plumbago 09:05, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I re-added it. Thunderbrand 14:18, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Vortigaunt and Combine
Since Vortigaunts and the Combine are already referenced earlier in the article, is it necessary for them to be linked in the "See also" section? --Nick R 20:01, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I dunno. It doesn't really bother me if they are there or not, but I guess it makes the page easier to scan over by just going to the bottom and looking. Thunderbrand 02:51, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

War of the Worlds
I recently saw the Steven Spielberg movie War of the Worlds, and I noticed how much the Tripods look like Striders (even down to the use of weird sounds). The whole Tripod concept was already in the 1898 novel, so maybe someone from Valve has read the book. (or seen an earlier movie.)

The musical version of WofW by Jeff Wayne from the late 1970s (or early 1980s) included a series of striking paintings of scenes from the novel. Those look very similar to the striders as well. --Plumbago 3 July 2005 12:04 (UTC)
 * Uh, yeah... it's a highly influential novel. One of the foundations for which most sci-fi novels are based. So, I wouldn't be surprised.

Enfestid July 3, 2005 20:00 (UTC)

Eastern European setting
There's a lot of signs and graffiti written with the Cyrillic alphabet I've noticed throughout the game; an example would be one of the warehouses with a "Техника" sign, "Порт 5", or "Цимент". I can understand some of it as I speak Russian, although some of the graffiti appears to be gibberish or some other Slavic language. "Цимент" seem to be a Cyrillic transliteration of the English word "cement"; it's not a Russian word(but extremely close to the Russian "цемент"), though a Google search revealed a lot of Bulgarian sites. "Nova Prospekt" isn't proper Russian, but could be correct in a different Slavic language(Bulgarian again perhaps?).

Father Grigori has a stereotypical "Eastern European" accent, although at times he sounded Scottish to me. His church is built in Eastern European style.

But then again, one of the episodes supposedly takes place in "Black Mesa East." I'm assuming this is just a new name for the laboratory they built to the (far) east of the original location in New Mexico.

Regarding the "дей" graffiti, it's most likely some kind of gibberish word; googling for it revealed only Cyrillic transliterations of Western names.


 * The original Black Mesa Research Facility is located in New Mexico, the one in Half-Life 2 is named in honour of it. The "East" part of the name probably refers to how much they've had to move. From the continental United States all the way to Eastern Europe. CABAL 4 July 2005 06:01 (UTC)


 * Aha! The lead artist(and the first name in the ending credits), Viktor Antonov, is from Sofia, Bulgaria. That would explain words like "цимент" and the general feel of City 17(which does bear quite a resemblance to Sofia). Maybe the Bulgaria idea warrants an inclusion in the main article?


 * What does "цимент" actually mean by the way? The main article should probably say.  Incidentally, I'd agree about putting Sofia in the main article.  It's always nice to find out where an artist drew inspiration from, especially when a game has such a sense of place.  --Plumbago 4 July 2005 09:02 (UTC)


 * Цимент means "cement" in Bulgarian, and is pronounced "tsiment."


 * Sounds like a loanword from German Cement (pronounced "tsement"), which itself is a loanword from French. Jordi·✆ 4 July 2005 20:01 (UTC)


 * Does the word "cement" have any significance beyond its everyday use? Otherwise, it seems an odd comment to place in the game.  Then again, it might have a particular personal significance to the programmer who put it in that we'd never get.  --Plumbago 4 July 2005 21:23 (UTC)


 * It would be odd graffiti, but in this case it wasn't graffiti, but a large sign on top of a building in Ravenholm(it looks like  "ц И м е н т" on the top of the building). I'm assuming the building used to be a cement factory. The building is clearly visible through most of the first part of Ravenholm.


 * I'm wondering if the 'дей' thing is supposed to look like the word 'Xen', albeit in a trendy Cyrillic manner - is it referring to the events in the previous game? This is, of course, wild speculation! :-] --194.247.44.210 14:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm confused! On the main Half-Life 2 page, it would appear my bit about Sofia being a possible basis for City 17 has been edited out. Yet in all of the edit histories it appears to have been preserved, and when I go to edit "Setting", the text is still there. But I can't see it when I look at the main article page. Why?


 * I see it just fine. CABAL 6 July 2005 10:14 (UTC)

Does Valve consider add-ons of Half-Life as canon?
I was wondering if Valve considers add-ons of original Half-Life as canon and treats events depicted in them as if they really happened between HL and HL2. None of new monsters from Opposing Force appears in HL2, but that isn't too proving because most monsters from Half-Life are missing too (houndeye, bullsquid and many others). Besides of this I didn't find anything what could answer my question. Does anyone have more info about this? Perhaps somebody who read Half-Life2: Raising the Bar book? Walter Smith 23:04, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm. It could probably go either way. I mean, on the one hand, Valve used Barney Calhoun from Blue Shift in HL2, and they had to have authorized Gearbox to make it; on the other hand, none of the Opposing Force aliens are consistent in appearance with the original Half-Life enemies (it's subtle, but it's there if you know what to look for), and we never hear of Shepard again even though the danger of "telling all" isn't going to make any difference anymore. --Yar Kramer 00:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Apparently it's like this: Blue Shift and Decay are fully canon, as are some occurences in Black Mesa as seen in OpFor (most notably the destruction of the facility). Race X is not part of the Half-Life storyline, and was introduced to allow Gearbox to go their own way without breaking consistency with the HL storyline.


 * Wether or not RaceX was from Xen, a Combine World, or somewhere else completely, has not been answered, and unless Gearbox makes a sequel to OpFor, likely never will. Jordi·✆ 00:29, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Something else just occurred to me: Walter Smith's exact words were about "add-ons", and as OpFor was an "add-on" in that it required you to already have the original and Blue Shift didn't, I guess Blue Shift doesn't count in that regard. ;) --Yar Kramer 00:39, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Blue Shift was developed as an add-on, to be more precise an extra campain for Half-Life on the Dreamcast. Just as Decay was an add-on of the PlayStation version. Because the Dreamcast HL used a slightly different engine, BS apparently not be backported as an add-on, and was released standalone. At least the engine changes are the excuse Valve gives why BS isn't available in Steam. Jordi·✆ 00:48, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Blue shift is now available on steam and has been for a month or 2. (Chardrc 01:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC))


 * Jordi made that comment two months ago. --Yar Kramer 01:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

After Half-Life 2: Aftermath?
I suddenly feel that Half-Life 3 would be at E3 2007 and in turn release in 2008 after Half-Life 2: Aftermath in this year. But no. Gabe Newell, creator of the Half-Life franchise, managing director of Valve Software, would state that Valve would intend to rest the Half-Life franchise for at least three years, and he would not expect Half-Life 3 (since it was confirmed to be in the early planning stages), if it is actually developed, to be released for several years. Is it right or not?


 * Um. What?

References to Russia
On the whole, these are useful. Although can we squeeze them into the "Setting" section? Not least because they complement the notes there on Bulgaria. Also, is it fair to say the references are Russian over Eastern European? I'm no expert (to say the least!). --Plumbago 11:24, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I didn't know in what section to put this information. As for it is Russian or not, I clearly know that the texts on the posters and ads are in Russian, and the cars in Ravenholm are definitely Russian ones. Also, I would be grateful if someone could take a screenshot of the poster saying "МЕЙЕРХОЛЬД" (on the first and several other levels - on the first level you can see it in a tiny park just after exiting the railway station building) or in Ravenholm - ad on the roof or Russian cars. Russian cars can also be seen in some level (don't know how it is called), before Freeman enters a building and helps people to fight Combine soldiers. --Anthony Ivanoff 11:56, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * [[image:HL2_posters_example.png|200px|right|thumb|Your request]]Done. See attached image. CABAL 07:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh, OK. Good. Well I reckon we need some input from those who contributed on the Bulgarian setting of the game. I think that was CABAL and Jordi·✆. My (completely ignorant) feeling is that the game probably incorporates diverse elements that can be labelled "Eastern European". It sounds, from this discussion and from earlier ones, like there are at least Russian and Bulgarian references (and, from my limited travelling in "the East", bits of former-East Germany). If needs be, it might be worth splitting the Setting section to segregate information about the Orwellian nature of HL2 from that about where it draws geographical inspiration from. Although there are obvious reasons why these two elements are not entirely separate. Anyway, comments please from the Bulgarian camp. --Plumbago 12:39, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * No I didn't. I think you got me confused for someone else. CABAL 07:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * According to Raising the Bar, Eastern Europe was chosen at the suggestion of a staff member who came from the region during a brainstorming session. They settled on it because it was an area rarely seen in games, outside of the top secret military base cliche, and allowed for more obvious contrast between human and Combine architecture. It isn't so much that Russia is 'referenced': it's the whole setting! The section should definitely be merged with Setting.


 * I don't agree that the only language that writes this particular word with the Cyrillic alphabet is Bulgarian - in Russian also. --Anthony Ivanoff 20:29, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Correct me if I'm wrong, Anthony, but isn't the Russian word цемент? I was the one who (without logging in) added the bit about Bulgaria in the setting. When I saw "цимент" in Ravenholm, my first reaction was either that it was a level designer being careless with the word "цемент" or something written in another Slavic language. As for the cars I would agree they are Russian ones but I think many other countries in соцлагерь have very similar(if not identical) looking ones :) I do not remember all of the various text on posters and signs in the game but I do know most of them would be perfectly correct in other languages like Bulgarian or Serbian. I am curious if the name of that prison "Nova prospekt" would be correct in Bulgarian(or some other language). I don't think the game is meant to be based in Bulglaria(or anywhere, really), simply that the game artists wanted to give some kind "Eastern European" feel and Bulgaria would be an obvious source based on Viktor Antonov's hometown and some of the things you see in the game. Given the cultural "overlaps" that Eastern European countries have it's a bit hard to draw the line. --Pravit 00:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, you're right, you convinced me :) And it's цемент indeed in Russian, not цимент. --Anthony Ivanoff 02:42, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Me again. I've just seen your "References to Russia" section. Suggest that we merge it in with "setting" or change it into "References to Eastern Europe", since most of what you mentioned could apply equally to other Eastern European countries. As for Grigori being only a Russian name, I think that's going a bit too far, and as for his accent, I personally thought he sounded Scottish at times. The voice actor is listed at IMDB as a one "Jim French".--Pravit 01:11, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Pravit. Re-work so that "Setting" refers to Eastern Europe, but perhaps leave in bits where there's a specific Russian or Bulgarian reference. Lose the separate section on "References to Russia". As regards Grigori, coming from Scotland I must confess to be hard pressed to confuse him for a fellow Scot. He has got something of a comedy Russian/Eastern European accent though. Maybe it's his rolling "R"s that sound Scottish. --Plumbago 09:29, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

The setting is beyound doubt mainly influenced by architechture in Sofia, but i could swear on my life that the building that features the supression field is the Serbian Republic Parliament, not only does it reseble the building but the construction layout of the level is the same in the real life. Also the block housing near the river [the level with the motorboat] resembles Novi Beograd [esp. block 70A]. -- cooler

Opening section
The first few paragraphs of the article take up quite a bit of space now. The bits about different retail versions, etc. could probably be buried elsewhere in the article. It might just be my warped aesthetics, but I think a short opening paragraph followed by the index box looks best. Especially when there's a game infobox alongside as well. --Plumbago 17:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it does seem kind of bloated at the beginning. Thunderbrand 17:27, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

OK. I've hacked and moved some of the offending material. I think a simple cut-and-paste job suffices, but please edit at will. I think the result is much better than what we had before. --Plumbago 20:18, 15 August 2005 (UTC)