Talk:Half-elf

Tales of
Just a note: Phantasia is not the sequel to Symphonia in the strictest sense - as it came before. Symphonia can be considered a prequel though. jptdrake 04:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Original name
It would be nice if someone provided the original Old Norse word for Half-elf. --Arny 10:59, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 17:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Word salad
I am trying to parse the last sentence of the lede. This is the best I could come up with, but it still makes no sense to me: "Scholars have considered
 * the meaning of
 * the choices made by Lúthien and Arwen,
 * combining love and death,
 * family loyalty,
 * immortality,
 * fate, and
 * faith
 * that
 * through letting go,
 * the light can be reached,
 * whereas holding on,
 * while natural,
 * is actually folly."

jnestorius(talk) 09:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Split sentence. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:56, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If it's just one opinion, it's better left to the body of the text where it can be quoted in full, rather than attempting a summary in the lede which might be OR and/or rely on context not yet mentioned to make sense. I've also rephrased the first sentence. jnestorius(talk) 06:11, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

No, there are multiple scholars who touch on these themes, and Flieger is widely seen as foremost, so the recent edit is misguided and needlessly destructive. I'll rewrite the paragraph. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:29, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The points are actually made and cited to multiple scholars in the article; and the key points were first made by Tolkien himself. I've had another go at summarizing the essence of the scholarly work, which indeed is the essence of the half-elven. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:45, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Much better, thanks! jnestorius(talk) 17:22, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Dior
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but at the time of his conception, both his mother and father were fully mortal, and therefore he was, no? Any discussion of his Elvish and Maiarin blood and consequent "half-mortality" (or really any sort of half-elvishness) must thus be rather confusing and/or distracting for the average reader? AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, but no, Luthien was an elf, whatever her changing mortality status. We can here only report on what Tolkien and scholars have written: any further reasoning is original research and we can't have that in articles or on talk pages. There are plenty of forums where you can discuss such matters. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Christopher Tolkien, The Lost Road and Other Writings: "It is to be observed that according to the judgement of Manwe Dior Thingol's Heir, son of Beren, was mortal irrespective of the choice of his mother." Thoughts? AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 03:03, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That is a reliable source (if you have the page number and edition), and it can be cited in the article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:09, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For your convenience: note #9, pp.334-5 of the 1987 Unwin Hallen edition. Not incidentally to the topic, the note is for this passage, on pp.326-7:
 * Then Manwe gave judgement and he said: 'To Earendel I remit the ban, and the peril that he took upon himself out of love for the Two Kindreds shall not fall on him; neither shall it fall upon Elwing who entered into peril for love of Earendel: save only in this: they shall not ever walk again among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands. Now all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; but in this matter the power of doom is given tome. This is my decree: to Earendel and to Elwing and to their sons shall be given leave each to choose freely under which kindred they shall be judged.'
 * Many thanks. AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:55, 19 May 2022 (UTC)