Talk:Halifax, West Yorkshire

GA nom
Sceptre nominated this as a good article, but I think it does not qualify as such yet. It's missing a History section. Most of the sections could use beefing up and citations. --F a ng Aili 19:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Local information website
From Room's Dictionary of Place Names (ISBN 0 7475 0170 X)  The first part of the name is either the Old English halh (nook) or hall (rock, stone). The second part is derived from the Old English word for hair, which was feux, here used metaphorically to apply to rough hairy grass 82.47.176.254 15:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)mikeL

More for inclusion
Speaking as a former Haligonian (though I never knew to call myself that at the time) and Halifax enthusiast I'd say there should also be coverage of: --Drewpuppy 23:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The Big 6 pub.
 * The Courier newspaper.
 * Beacon Hill (maybe).
 * Perhaps more on the Halifax building in the town centre.
 * Can't disagree with you; especially regarding the Courier. Feel free to add it, with the normal valid citions and links. Neobros 02:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to go on this page and what you just called yourself because of this page. I still live and always have lived in Halifax. I've never heard the term Haligonian. I've heard it about the Nova Scotian Halifax though. 82.38.124.61 (talk) 19:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 2007

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 09:39, 28 October 2007 (UTC) Halifax, West Yorkshire → Halifax — This is the original Halifax and the largest by ten times compared to the second largest (Halifax, Massachusetts)—Reginmund 01:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Strong Support - as nominator Reginmund 01:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - For reasons given. Nigholith 01:48, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. The Halifax Regional Municipality (formerly the City of Halifax) is much larger and is more commonly linked. Dekimasu よ! 04:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Yes, but it is however called the Halifax Regional Municipality. Reginmund 04:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It would usually be called "Halifax" by people typing something into the search box. Dekimasu よ! 05:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Dekimasu, the city in Canada is far more well known and populated. There are also many other articles that "Halifax" could be referring to. TJ Spyke 04:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Dekimasu. Insisting that the Canadian city is not a Halifax is like claiming that the City and County of San Francisco is not San Francisco, California. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The Canadian Halifax is significant enough to make the primary title the disambig as currently. Andrewa 08:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Too many possible articles the user could be looking for and with contention on which should be the primary topic better to retain the dab page as Halifax. Keith D 10:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. When did size become a guideline for owning the primary name space? Vegaswikian 18:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The Canadian city is much the world's foremost and best known "Halifax", now.  (That city, Halifax, Nova Scotia, is not the same thing as Halifax Regional Municipality, which is, rather, the municipal government covering Halifax County including, and of course dominated by, the city of Halifax -- but that's a whole other issue.)  Notwithstanding the greater age of the Halifax in West Yorkshire,  notwithstanding that other Halifaxes in the world are its namesakes, it is an obscure place as against the Nova Scotian city. -- Lonewolf BC 21:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I don't want to get drawn into a debate as to whether Halifax, Nova Scotia is any more or less important than Halifax, West Yorkshire.  (I had enough of that regarding Worcester, Massachusetts.....)  However, I don't think there is a primary usage here.  Within the UK, it's debatable as to whether the primary usage of "Halifax" refers to the town or to the bank.  (The shambles over the Halifax, Nova Scotia page is another issue, and is best kept separate from ths one.)  --RFBailey 22:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The current title is fine as it is. Especially considering the massive connotation and media advertising of Halifax (bank) which in the UK is referred to as:- The Halifax. Note: Although I was born in Halifax, West Yorkshire I am totally impartial. Richard Harvey 09:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Although the Canadians seem confused as to the proper name of the Nova Scotia city, everyone else thinks it's Halifax.  (What's the plural of "Halifax"?  "Halifaxes"?  "Halifaxen"?)  &mdash; Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 00:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The plural is "Halifaces", of course.
 * Oppose - I live less than 30 minutes from Halifax and I agree that the bank is more well known. Will (talk) 00:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Part of the problem is an old-fashioned, prescriptive approach taken in various places, eg the intro to Halifax Regional Municipality: The municipality is commonly called HRM and often simply, although incorrectly, as Halifax (my emphasis). Modern linguistic practice is to avoid such judgements as to what is correct, and Wikipedia naming conventions follow this descriptive approach. Andrewa 08:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This was previously discussed on the talk page of one of these (maybe at Talk:Halifax, Nova Scotia?) and it was decided that such language would be taken out. I'm not sure why it's still present in that article. Dekimasu よ! 10:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess is it's just that the prescriptive POV is pretty strong in some people. The bizarre thing is, those who are fondest of ordering other people around like this are generally the worst at following the rules themselves. Hang in there. Andrewa 18:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed Halifax Regional Municipality... we'll see how long it lasts... Andrewa 20:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Andrewa, as far as I can tell, the Halifax vs Halifax RM argument is unrelated to what is the primary usage of Halifax. (It needed fixing though!)  --RFBailey 22:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * IMO they're different issues but related... As has also been noted at Talk:Halifax, Nova Scotia. Good luck keeping it fixed...! And with the other issues going on surrounding the Halifax, Nova Scotia articles. Andrewa 01:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

This proposal is like arguing for moving London, Ontario to London since the English city is not called London (it's either City of London or Greater London). —  AjaxSmack   02:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, sort of--in that case, there's an obvious primary usage, which isn't quite true here. --RFBailey 03:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Which is why Halifax is a dab page and should stay that way. —   AjaxSmack    06:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removing Clean-up tag
I think this article's now far surpassed the need for the clean-up tag, thanks to the many fine editors who have contributed. Please re-tag the article if you disagree. Nigholith 22:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Law enforcement
There seems to be more than meets the eye in John Taylor's poem on Hull, Halifax and Hell: The last three places in the country to implement a sheep tax were Hull, Halifax and Elland. Cloth at that time was measured by the ELL (approx 1 metre). There is a strange reference in the litany to "in hell there is an heavier tax" 22 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.63.176 (talk) 13:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Although Taylor's sequence of places is actually Hull, Halifax and Hell the popular sequence is often heard as Hull, Hell and Halifax which sounds suspiciously like Hull, Ell-and Halifax! 7 April 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.80.73 (talk) 12:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure it's "hell hull and Halifax" not Hull Halifax and Hell Hĭ uông lìng (talk) 18:03, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Organ date?
There is an inconsistency between Halifax, West Yorkshire and Halifax Parish Church: the former reports (clumsily) that the organ was installed in 1765; the latter reports 1766. --155.198.108.162 (talk) 11:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well spotted!:) I have corrected the entry in the first article and also updated the details and replaced the original reference with a better one for the second one, which I have also inserted in the first. Richard Harvey (talk) 16:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 2010

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Halifax, West Yorkshire → Halifax — The town in West Yorkshire is the original source of the word "Halifax". Crouch, Swale  talk to me   My contribs  13:36, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Halifax→Halifax (disambiguation)
 * With a hatnote for the bank and orther uses
 * This was discussed without consensus being reached three years ago: has anything changed from the views expressed then? (Yes, I know Halifax is now a minster town, but there is no reason why that should affect the argument). --ColinFine (talk) 15:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Simply being the "original" Halifax should not, in my mind, be the main criterion; rather I'd ask what wikipedia users are likely to be searching for when they land at Halifax. Since there is a much larger city with the same name in Canada, and also one of the UK's major financial institutions, and a horde of lesser Halifaxes, I doubt the town in West Yorkshire should have primacy. I think it may be appropriate to point out your idea on some talkpages of other Halifax articles; have you considered this? People who watchlist Halifax, West Yorkshire might feel that it's the dominant Halifax by far, but folk watching others may disagree.
 * Wikipedia policy would seem to require disambiguation.
 * It was pretty normal for Europeans founding towns in Africa, Australasia, and the Americas to name them after towns "back home", or colonial officials - and in the following centuries the notability of each might increase or decrease dramatically. bobrayner (talk) 16:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose, Despite being the origin of the word, the settlement named Halifax in Nova Scotia, Canada is larger and more politically important (it is the capital of its province) than the one in West Yorkshire. Perhaps if anything Halifax should redirect to Regional Municipality of Halifax instead or just be left as disambiguation as there are too many cities/towns/settlements named "Halifax". EelamStyleZ (talk) 16:46, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Not a primary topic  Pur ple  back pack 89   04:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose move Halifax, Nova Scotia to "Halifax" instead. Clearly more important than West Yorkshire, even in the UK, since it is where the convoys for the North Atlantic originated in WWI and WWII, keeping the UK alive and in the war. 76.66.194.212 (talk) 05:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose. irrespective of their relative importance (with Halifax, Nova Scotia, being considerably more important) the reality is that in North American English, and likely in Australasian English too, "Halifax" refers to Halifax, Nova Scotia and not to the original place in England (unless there's a Halifax in Oz, which there may be).  The precedent may be Boston though that may be a dismabiguation page.  "Halifax" should either be a disambiguation page, or sent to the "primary usage"....thing is, in UK/British Isles English that's not Halifax, Nova Scotia, so it seems necessary to just have a dab page; another reason to do so is the because the historic City of Halifax, Nova Scotia is now part of the Halifax Regional Municipality (within which "Halifax" still means the old core, but can refer to teh regional city in various contexts, though usually then "HRM" is what gets said).Skookum1 (talk) 06:16, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Invalid rationale. It is "primary usage" not "prior usage" that applies. See Edmonton/Edmonton, London and Boston/Boston, Lincolnshire. Enter CBW, waits for audience applause, not a sausage. 22:53, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose – I'm originally from Halifax and would love for it to be a more prominent place but the reality is that the Canadian city is larger and more prominent (especially as a seaport) although I don't think it is the primary topic. The former building society was the most notable Halifax institution, with the mighty 'Fax rugby club a good second. Therefore I think the current situation is the appropriate one with Halifax as a dab page, but I think the UK Halifax needs to be mentioned at the top as the source of the name, rather than halfway down. Green Giant (talk) 02:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be, it is not the leading usage. If anything, it should be the Canadian Halifax that is mentioned first. 76.66.194.128 (talk) 05:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose Should definitely be a disambig page. Just because a town is the originator of a term, does not mean it is the primary topic. This has often been discussed and rejected. -DJSasso (talk) 19:17, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


 * Comment why are all these WP:RM discussions being closed as "no consensus" when there is a clear consensus? I keep seeing this, and it makes no sense, over and over, a clear consensus results from the discussion but the closure is marked as "no consensus". 65.94.232.153 (talk) 06:47, 24 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you have failed to read the line correctly. On both proposals it actually says "no consensus to move". Which is the same as saying the proposals were not supported and the article remains as it is! Richard Harvey (talk) 13:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Except there is a "consensus to not move", if there is "no consensus", then it is not moved, if there is a consensus not to move, then a consensus has been established. A consensus seem to have been established. 65.95.12.136 (talk) 23:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Postcodes
Let's not get dragged into an edit war on postcodes. Has anybody got a source? Does the Royal Mail set different boundaries for "Halifax" compared to, say, local government? If the boundaries do differ, can we find a way of making this clear in the article without misleading readers? bobrayner (talk) 02:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Halifax has a main sorting office and the Postcodes for the area are shown in the HX postcode area article. These are what should be reflected in the infobox, which automatically wikilinks to the 'HX postcode area' article, as a standard default on wikipedia. Richard Harvey (talk) 11:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The HX postcode area is named after Halifax, but it includes other towns - the Halifax post town is HX1-4. As this article is about the town, only the postcodes that cover areas in the town should be included - which looks like HX1-3. Peter E. James (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Coat of Arms
I've tried to put this image back, sorry if it isn't quite right please feel free to correct it. Rjstott (talk) 12:44, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of Wainhouse Tower info
I don't agree with the deletion of info about Wainhouse Tower, just because it appears in another entry about King Cross. Surely it deserves a mention in this article? Mr Barndoor (talk) 17:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's really a simple issue, The Wainhouse Tower is located in the village of King Cross, that cannot be disputed. As King Cross is a village and has it's own article the tower belongs in that article. It cannot be in two places at the same time. In same way that Shibden Hall is in Shibden, though Halifax is generally thought of as the location. St. Pauls Church is also in 'King Cross', not 'Halifax'. Richard Harvey (talk) 22:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What a strange idea. We have a hierarchy of geographical areas; there is absolutely no reason why a landmark can't be mentioned in more than one. For instance, the Eiffel Tower is mentioned in Champ de Mars, 7th arrondissement of Paris, Paris, and even France.
 * If you're going to redefine Halifax so that it excludes all the named suburbs, you'll have to do a pretty drastic rewrite of the article. And knock a digit off the population figure. And then admit that the article is no longer talking about the "Halifax" which sources generally refer to.
 * Sources say that Wainhouse tower is in Halifax. bobrayner (talk) 23:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay; that sounds logical :). Looking deeper into King Cross I find that the article was originally created as a redirect to the Kings Cross article in March 2006. Then in April 2008 the redirect was removed and it was labelled up as a village. With memories of playing around the base of the Wainhouse Tower as a child I assumed this to be correct. I should have remembered the idiom of not accepting everything written in 'Wikipedia' to be correct. It transpires that 'King Cross' was never a village, but was a collection of small hamlet's and fields and part of the parish of Halifax. In 1846 King Cross became a Parish in its own right, with a church built there in 1847, which was demolished in 1930, after the current St Paul's was built in 1911. What I now suggest is that the article be redone as a Civil Parish article. Does anyone have any comments on or objections to that? Richard Harvey (talk) 14:14, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Treating King Cross as a civil parish sounds reasonable to me. Fill your boots! bobrayner (talk) 14:28, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Notable Haligonians
The list of Notable Haligonians was deleted from this article by jza84 on the 21st of February 2010, on the grounds that it was "unsourced". It was replaced with a link to a page of notable people from Calderdale. That page consists largely of people from Todmorden, often of questionable notability. A mountain-biking journalist? Notable? I argue that if a list item links to a page for a person, and that page is sourced, then the list item is sourced. I've restored the list of Notable Haligonians. Mr Barndoor (talk) 13:31, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Having been away and just got to your question on the List of people from Calderdale page and replied there. Basically every entry on the list should have its own reliable source in this article and not rely on the wikilink. Keith D (talk) 20:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't mention any applicable Wiki policies, but I'll take your word for it. I'll put references into the list when time permits. The List of people from Calderdale page is not an appropriate replacement for the list of Notable Haligonians, though - it's largely concerned with Todmordonians, and has a strange view of what constitutes notability and "from Calderdale". Is Dennis Healey's father notable for anything except having a son? Why is Antony Booth on the list when he's not from Calderdale? Mr Barndoor (talk) 12:48, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that what they were trying to do was to remove the lists from the individual pages and put them into a single list but failed to complete the job properly. Personally I would have gone for a list per major location and put the smaller places in the Calderdale list. One way would be to create a List of people from Halifax, West Yorkshire article, if there are more than a dozen entries, and use a main link from this article. The list can then grow without affecting the main article on the place and is more acceptable for any possible GA or FA submission for the Halifax article. Keith D (talk) 13:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Haligonians from Yorkshire?
The article refers to people from Halifax as "Haligonians". I have consulted people born and bred in Halifax, and they say that they have never heard "Haligonians" as a term for people from Halifax, Yorkshire, only for people from Halifax, Nova Scotia. Is there a reliable source for the use of the term for people from Halifax, Yorkshire? --Mhockey (talk) 11:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Well I was born and bred in Halifax and certainly have heard of the phrase. Note the section above referring to Notable Haligonians. See this article from the Halifax Evening Courier:- . There is also something mentioned, in replies by local residents, when the term Halifaxian was used in the Halifax Evening Courier letters page here:- Save this local icon, also as a reply on another sports article here:-, both of which confirm the term is known and used. The word is also used, in the Financial Times here:- . Also note:- . Richard Harvey (talk) 13:36, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that is very helpful. The Halifaxians/Haligonians I know left the place quite some time ago, like the guy who wrote to the Courier from Australia. What seems to have happened is that the term Haligonian has gained currency in the last 20 or 30 years (I suspect influenced by Canada). It would be interesting to add something to the article about this.--Mhockey (talk) 22:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

John Holdsworth & Co. Ltd.
Surprising there is no mention of John Holdsworth & Co. Ltd. and particularly the Shaw Lodge Mills. This impressive chimney still standing. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:12, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Halifax and District Organists Association
Is this addition really "promotion advertising"? Are they even a money-making commercial venture? I'm truly amazed. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 17:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Large town?
Just to note that Calderdale Council here describes Halifax as "a very attractive, busy large town" (page 23). Martinevans123 (talk) 18:38, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

"Halifax"
The usage of "Halifax" is under discussion, see Talk:Halifax.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:20, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Redirect
i can't do it for some reason but this page should be redirected to Halifax, England since there is only one settlement with that name in UK the other is Nova Scotia a different country. West Yorkshire is a county not a country. It's like using Birmingham as the present for the city than Alabama's or New York as the present for York despite York in England. DragonofBatley (talk) 00:55, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ...because there already is a Halifax, England redirect page and, if like me, you do not have the correct rights on Wikipedia, you cannot overwrite a redirect page. You need someone with admin rights to effect these changes, as we have two redirects (Halifax, England and Halifax, England (United Kingdom)), and also Halifax, United Kingdom as a main page., can you help, please; assuming that Halifax, England is the proper naming convention (which I think it is)...? Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 04:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @The joy of all things The correct name is the longstanding name of Halifax, West Yorkshire.  Pam  D  05:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * See WP:ENGLANDPLACE: "Where disambiguation is required, placename, ceremonial county is normally used. For example, Halling, Kent.".No reason to move. Pam  D  05:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, forgetting my guidance; I was thinking about Railway stations where you only disambiguate with a county level if there is another railway station of that name within England (Willington railway station (Durham) vs Willington railway station (Bedfordshire) and Willington railway station). As there is only one Halifax in England (bar the area of Ipswich), I assumed it would be the same for locations such as Perth, Australia, vs Perth, Scotland, where the country is used, Scotland, instead of the region (Perth and Kinross). The joy of all things (talk) 13:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @The joy of all things Ah now, if you're interested in disambiguating railway stations please have a look at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (UK stations) - should disambiguating railway lines be abbreviated or spelled out? The examples given in the guideline have both been moved to non-comply with the guideline. Pam  D  13:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @The joy of all things But it's interesting: Place name disambiguation is different from most other disambiguation, where you'd usually go for the broadest disambiguating category: "Jane Smith (swimmer)" if she was the only one, rather than "Jane Smith (20th-century English swimmer)". Even if Halifax is the only one in England we use the narrower disambiguation of ceremonial county (and most certainly not "(United Kingdom)"). And I see that Perth is accounted for in an exception in WP:SCOTLANDPLACE which doesn't occur in WP:ENGLANDPLACE: "Exceptions include: The number of larger settlements or islands that are likely to be well known outside of the region, that also require disambiguation such as Perth, Scotland, and Jura, Scotland. Wow, it's hardly surprising that no-one remembers the rules! Pam  D  13:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I requested the reversal of the undiscussed move at WP:RM, and this page has now been moved back to its correct title of Halifax, West Yorkshire, from its temporary incorrect name of Halifax, United Kingdom. Please do not move it again without discussion. Pam  D  07:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree this should remain Halifax, West Yorkshire, the standard "place, county". The only exception to use "England" is if there was a Halifaxshire, although Lancaster, Lancashire still exists despite that. Scotland is treated differently so their guides don't apply to England. No place article uses "United Kingdom" AFAIAA.  Dank Jae  11:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is another in England that might not be notable namely there are links at Ipswich engine shed and Orwell (1817 ship) to Halifax, Ipswich.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Crouch, Swale I looked at those two: I don't think either has even enough info to be worth an entry on the Halifax disambiguation page, but you could try to concoct something! Pam  D  17:32, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't find anything on it in VOB or the Domesday Book and searching on Google is difficult due to the bank, it could perhaps be worthy of a mention in a larger article but it probably doesn't need a separate article but in any case the county and not the country is the correct qualifier even if unique in England.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)