Talk:Hall of Mirrors

Rating
I have downgraded this, and all the other articles about individual parts of the palce of Versailles. It is not reasonable to have every suite of rooms rated as "top importance", along with the Parthenon and Abu Simbel. One top listing per building is sufficient. Amandajm (talk) 12:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Tourism
I would note that by the sources, 3 million visitors annually seems to imply some modicum level of tourism here. I like to saw logs! (talk) 06:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Second German Empire?
In the "Functions" section, first sentence of the third paragraph, the writer of the article stated (in parenthesis) that the Hall of Mirrors was used to establish the beginning of the (second) German Empire.

In the 19th century, at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War, the Prussian king, William I, was declared German emperor — thus establishing the (second) German Empire — on 18 January 1871 in the Hall of Mirrors by Bismarck and the victorious German princes and lords.

When was the first German Empire? If this is incorrect, the notation should be removed.

Tom C. 10:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommy6860 (talk • contribs)


 * By German reckoning the "First German Empire" was the Holy Roman Empire, founded by Otto I and eventually dismantled by Napoleon a thousand years later. The Second Empire lasted from 1871 until World War I when the Kaiser was forced to abdicate.  Hitler called his conquests the "Third Empire" or "The Third Reich",  "Reich" being German for Empire.  Since "Third Reich" is a common term for Nazi Germany, "Second Empire" is a proper term for the Kaisers' realm.  CharlesTheBold (talk) 04:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

More?
What about the restoration? Or the many different decorative incarnations? Or historic photos? The lighting has actually changed a fair bit and nothing has been said about it (I think the current chandeliers were produced in the 1980s). Seven Letters 15:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Anyone? Seven Letters 20:56, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move. The evidence suggests this is the primary topic. Cúchullain t/ c 15:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Hall of Mirrors (Palace of Versailles) → Hall of Mirrors – The Versailles "Hall of Mirrors" is the most notable use of the term, compared to the alternative uses listed on the target page, including "house of mirrors" (which states that they are based on the Versailles hall), a minor film ("Hall of Mirrors (2001 film))", a visual anomaly in computer graphics ("Hall of mirrors effect"), and a number of uses which haven't warranted separate articles (two songs (by Kraftwerk in Trans-Europe Express (album), and The Distillers in Coral Fang) album), a book by Robert Stone, and two short stories (by Kurt Vonnegut (Look at the Birdie), and Roger Zelazny). --Relisted Tyrol5   [Talk]  02:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC) 90.200.179.113 (talk) 10:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Oppose. The proposer writes: "The Versailles 'Hall of Mirrors' is the most notable use of the term", without statistical support from a comprehensive listing of 90-day pageviews for all relevant pages. But even if it did truly dominate all the others, how is anyone helped by the proposed loss of precision? Please explain – in rigorous detail, not just with unexplained links to policy or guideline provisions. ☺ N oetica Tea? 22:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * OK I am fairly new to this so it has taken me a while to work out what "pageviews" means. The statistics you requested are:
 * House_of_mirrors has been viewed 5927 times in the last 90 days
 * Hall_of_Mirrors_(2001_film) has been viewed 430 times in the last 90 days
 * Noclip_mode has been viewed 9140 times in the last 90 days
 * and Hall_of_Mirrors_(Palace_of_Versailles) has been viewed 32475 times in the last 90 days
 * So going by these figures it appears that the Versailles article was viewed more than twice as much as the other three. I presume there are no statistics for the five uses that have no articles. The second part of your request appears to be a rhetorical question but as far as I can see, moving this article would be in line with WP:Article titles and specifically the section marked WP:Natural, which states that "if the article is about the primary topic to which the ambiguous name refers, then that name can be its title without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies". Since the statistics suggest that the Versailles article is a clear primary topic, then I can see no reason to keep such a long title. 90.200.179.113 (talk) 04:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, 90. You omit this statistic: the DAB page Hall of Mirrors gets just 3250 pageviews over the last 90 days. The total of the pageviews for all five relevant pages being 51222, the DAB page accounts for only 6.35% of the total. Therefore, the current arrangement is working very well for actual readers in the real world. As things stand, a reader only has to type as far as "hall o" in the search box (top right of this screen) to get a prompt to this present article: "Hall of Mirrors (Palace of Versailles)". How is that not optimal? If the proposed move were effected, that prompt would not appear, and the reader would have to guess what was what; many would have to load the present article, and follow the hatnote (if they see it!) to get to what what they are after. In fact, there is no hatnote there yet. Similarly, anyone doing a naive, raw, unformatted Google search on hall of mirrors currently sees this article at the top of the results, highlighted like this: "Hall of Mirrors (Palace of Versailles) - Wikipedia, ...". The WP DAB page comes second in the list! Please explain how this state of affairs is not already optimal. ☺ N oetica Tea? 00:50, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose the hall of mirrors effect is highly significant, as is the house of mirrors. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 06:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you explain how these are as significant as the Versailles article given that in the last 90 days it appears that the Versailles article was viewed more than twice as much as the other articles put together? 90.200.179.113 (talk) 04:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. Wikipedia has only two articles named "Hall of Mirrors". The hall at Versailles got 32,475 views in the last 90 days, while the film got 430. The capitalization for the funhouse hall is different, so there is no good reason to include that. But even if you threw in those 5,927 pages views, this topic would still be dominant. As for hall of mirrors effect, that's not only lower cased, but also a redirect. Kauffner (talk) 05:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. This 'Hall of Mirrors' is the primary meaning of the term since it is the most prominent/famous to have that as a proper name in English. Seven Letters 20:58, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose; too much risk of confusion with other articles. Powers T 19:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * How so? Seven Letters 23:15, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There are other articles that a reader could just as easily be looking for under this title. Powers T 20:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The link stats seem to show otherwise. Any particular examples? Peter Isotalo 17:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. Evidently the primary topic under this title, so no need for additional disambiguation. Sionk (talk) 14:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Support clearly appears to be primarytopic. Tiggerjay (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Support 90% of hits is a clear case of primary topic as far as I can tell.
 * Support. Clearly the main topic. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Chateau Versailles Galerie des Glaces.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Chateau Versailles Galerie des Glaces.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 13, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-08-13. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:35, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Edits 02.08.2013
In the history and research of the Palace of Versailles and its associated buildings, myths, legends, and folklore have engendered stories that are legion. This user has deleted the following sentence, which had been tagged for citation in July 2008 – five years ago, on grounds that the statement seems specious and apocryphal:


 * The Hall of Mirrors' technological innovation which made it such an exceptional space during its day was the high temperature melting process of glass which was utilized to construct the mirrors. This was the first time this process had been done, adding to its significance.

In point of fact, the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles was not the first time copious use of mirrors was used in interior decoration. A possible, if not probable, antecedent to the Hall of Versailles can be found in the Palacio de Buen Retiro in Madrid. This palace, which was built for Philip IV of Spain (Louis XIV’s father-in-law), included a large reception/throne room that was called Salón de Reinos (Hall of the Realms). This room was noted for its copious use of mirrors in the interior decoration. One of the best sources for the history of the Buen Retiro is:


 * Brown, Jonathan and John Huxtable Elliott. A Palace for a King: The Buen Retiro and the Court of Philip IV. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1980.

Furthermore, in his 1981 article for the Gazette des Beaux-Arts,(Kevin Olin Johnson, “Il n’y plus de Pyrénées: Iconography of the first Versailles of Louis XIV”, Gazette des Beaux-Arts, vol. 6e pér., vol. 97(January, 1981): 29–40.) Kevin Olin Johnson posited the theory – a theory that merits serious consideration – that the plan of the Palace of Versailles was so devised so as to suggest a possible dual-monarchy. On the grounds that Philip IV failed to meet the terms of the marriage contract of his daughter Marie-Thérèse to Louis XIV (terms of the contract stipulated that Marie-Thérèse renounce her claim to the Spanish throne), Louis XIV launched the War of Devolution with the objective of the abrogation of certain terms of the marriage contract – namely the renunciation of his wife’s claim to the Spanish throne. History has attributed to Louis XIV the expression “Il n’y plus des Pyrénées” (The Pyrenees are no more), which indicated that the border between France and Spain no longer would exist should Louis XIV achieve his goals regarding his wife’s claim to the Spanish throne. A. Ratnik 20:41, 2 August 2013 (UTC)