Talk:Hamdania incident

Previously without header
Removed a large block of text as it was incorrect. The NyTimes article clearly states

"'Tony Snow, the White House spokesman, said today that President Bush was 'troubled' by allegations concerning the Haditha and Ishaqi incidents, as well as the fatal shooting of an Iraqi man in Hamadiya. In that case, which was first reported Thursday by The Associated Press, military prosecutors say they are preparing murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges against seven marines and a Navy corpsman, and the death of civilians in a March attack in Ishaqi, a village north of Baghdad. '"

This says the seven marines were being charged in links to Ishaqi not Hamadiya. Those investigations also ended finding the soldiers obeyed the proper escalation routine. -- zero faults  undefined  01:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I beg to differ. The phrase "In that case" cannot refer to the Ishaqi incident, as the Ishaqi and Haditha incidents are paired together grammatically in the sentence.  Logic dictates, then, that the clause refers to the third incident, which stands alone in the text. The issue is clarified in a slightly different (later?) version of the NYT News Service text (found here). Read it carefully:
 * "'Tony Snow, the White House spokesman, said Friday that President Bush was 'troubled' by allegations now being investigated in connection with three incidents, news services reported. Along with the killings in Haditha, the investigations involved the fatal shooting of an Iraqi man in Hamadiya, a case in which military prosecutors say they are preparing murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges against seven Marines and a Navy corpsman, and the death of civilians in a March attack in Ishaqi, a village north of Baghdad.'"
 * I'll restore the deleted text to the article. 69.228.214.183 17:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Hamadiya/Hamdania
Could someone please rename the article or at least include a redirect? Thanks. --217.235.208.92

The article now has the correct name. Juansmith 23:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --217.235.210.210

Merging of articles
Disagree - It is to early to say how this is going to pan out. Some of these Marines may get convicted others may not. A whole host of things may happen between now and the end of this episode. Recommend keeping them separate for now and when it is all played out then revisiting this topic.--Looper5920 04:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Disagree, and concur with Looper5920's suggestion to re-evaluate after the story settles out and we see if one or two of these guys prove to be William Calleys, or if they are all equally culpable. Another very, very weak (OK, indefensible) reason for keeping separate articles is that on Corporal Magincalda's page there's an external link to a fund-raising website put up by his wife and attorney to raise legal fees for Mr. Magincalda, who appears to be in a whole heap 'o trouble. Totally a violation of Wikipedia policy to allows a personal fund-raising link like that to remain, but part of me values it as at token effort to hear the other side of the story. I know, I know, I'm losing it as a Wikipedian. --technopilgrim 04:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, it's been two weeks & the two votes have been for not merging the articles. I'll remove the tag. --69.228.81.49 18:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Libel suit against Congressman Murtha is not associated with this incident
I've removed the sentence saying the families of the accused soldiers are suing Congressman Murtha for libel. The Hamdania and Haditha cases are being confused. There is a libel lawsuit against Murtha made by a Marine accused in the Haditha incident, but as far as I know the families of the Handania defendents have not sued the congressman for anything. If I've missed a lawsuit by the family members, re-instate the sentence along with a reference. --- technopilgrim 20:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

November 2006 Conviction
I have added news of the November 2006 conviction. The article would benefit from a rewrite as it is no longer an "alleged" crime and many previously unverifed facts are now verifiable. However, the story is still unfolding so it may be best not to rewrite just yet.

Possible addition
Trent is off the hook. Should this receive its own dated section (July 2007) or is there a better place to include the information? The Behnam 22:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

The identity of the iraqi person killed is unknown
 The article states that the iraqi person killed in the incident was Hashem Ibrahim Awad, but this is disputed by the defense attourneys of the accused Marines, and the prosecution removed the name from the charges, identifying the man only as an unknown Iraqi man. Walterego 04:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent additions regarding Pennington's release incorrect
Pennington has NOT yet been granted clemency. He was simply released from the brig (and is currently reporting to duty) until General Mattis makes that decision. Also, the bit about a reduction in sentence needs to be re-worded. He took a plea deal for 8 years and reduced charges, and one of the stipulations was to testify "against" some of the others. The judge who gave him the 14-year sentence was not informed of how many years the plea deal agreement was for. Whichever was less would be the time that he served. It was NOT actually "reduced" at any time. In addition, he served quite a bit more time in jail than "a few months". The sentence includes time already served, which would be nearly 16 months. Even the time since he received his sentence (February) has been more than a few months. That part should probably be taken out completely. Can somebody that knows what they are doing please fix this? There are some really glaring errors, here.

Hutchins release pending appeal
http://militarytimes.com/news/2010/06/ap_marine_iraq_shootings_0614 Posted : Tuesday Jun 15, 2010 16:40:33 EDT

SAN DIEGO — A Marine sergeant accused of killing an unarmed Iraqi man in a major war crimes case will return to his unit now that he has been released from a military jail, a Marine Corps spokesman said Tuesday.

Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins III walked out of the brig at Camp Pendleton on Monday after a military judge determined he is not a flight risk while his case is being appealed.

Hutchins’ murder conviction was overturned in April by a military appeals court in Washington, D.C., that said he was given an unfair trial in 2007. However, the Navy is appealing the ruling and prosecutors wanted to keep Hutchins in confinement during that process.

The case is now in the hands of a higher court, which can affirm or reverse the April ruling. That decision may not come until early next year.

...

How was it that the conviction overturn and subsequent appeal of that overturn were not in the article? htom (talk) 03:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Motive
the article doesnt give a motive on the Marines part of why they did this, and also doesnt tell how they we're caught. if this informations available it'd be cool to have!

 'The person above me is a POG - with an IP address in Denton, TX. Surprise, surprise...'

The motive that I am more curious about is the one that made Christian Kennedy think that he could get away with making up grandiose tales about him being a highly decorated Marine that has a Marine buddy who committed suicide after coming home from the war.

Here's our friend Archangel Two Zero (2-0): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ajh1985

Here's his fake buddy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Scott0311

His feeble attempts at inserting himself into history by editing Wikipedia articles is so epically pathetic that one wonders how sad his day to day existence must be. That he has to go to that extreme to feel good about himself or to get attention from the opposite sex speaks volumes about how badly he has failed at life...

It also speaks volumes that the articles remained relatively unchanged until recently, when Kennedy got called out for being a fraud - then, all of the sudden, large parts were deleted or changed from an IP address that originates in Denton, TX...

Now, Kennedy would assert that he no longer lives in Texas, so it wasn't him making the changes, but his Facebook reflects "Studies Political Science at University of North Texas" and his arrest records speak for themselves:

http://www.mugshotsonline.com/texas/denton/brian-scott-kennedy/95835921

http://www.mugshotsonline.com/texas/denton/brian-scott-kennedy/88990051

http://www.mugshotsonline.com/texas/denton/brian-scott-kennedy/89497071

Here's all the edits to the Hamadia Incident article coming from his IP address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/97.94.209.205

Any changes made to this, or any of the other sections that this dirtbag has inserted himself into, will be reverted upon discovery. You can try all you like to make this go away Christian, but it's here to stay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.209.77.176 (talk) 21:53, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

False Information Removed
This article has very grave problems that seem to have gone uncorrected for some time.

There is no Marine by the name Christian Kennedy in the Lava Dogs and there never has been such a person in the unit in any time frame in which the actions attributed to him could possibly have happened. See also the claim that the same character was involved in the Battle of Shok Valley and, while there, apparently earned enough regalia to press a baluchitherium into a flapjack. This latter article has no references whatsoever and, if you check, you will notice that none of the source documents for this article (not even the broken link crammed haphazardly into the body of the text) contain the names Christian Kennedy, Brian Kennedy, Christian S. Kennedy, Brian S. Kennedy, or any other variation of the name. Also, the Wikipedia article on the Battle of Shok Valley contains information that is almost completely different from the Wikimedia commons source.

The Wikimedia commons article seems like it is either a prank or a desperate attempt at inserting oneself into history perpetrated by an avid player of Modern Warfare. A third possibility is that the same person controls these two identities and has used them to infiltrate Wikipedia systematically, and this is the possibility that I believe to be likely.

The reason why I think this is that, when cross-referenced, the information the articles produce makes no sense concerning Kennedy or Simons. The information regarding Simons is the most contradictory, but the account of Kennedy is problematic, too. Are we supposed to believe that in 2008, Kennedy earned a purple heart at Shok Valley after having been relieved of his duties with the 3rd battalion, 5th Marines in 2006? The Hamdania Incident article goes so far as to say that he was sent to Kaneohe Bay during that time, and Hawaii is a long way from Afghanistan. Furthermore, the 3rd Special Forces group does not list Kennedy as a notable member, which he would be, had he won a purple heart while serving with the unit.

Simons’ user page indicates that he was a member of the 3rd battalion of the 5th Marines, yet the Hamdania Incident article lists him as being in the 3rd battalion of the 3rd Marines. This might have been possible given that disciplinary action was supposedly taken against Simons and Kennedy, but the press somehow overlooked both of them during all coverage of the Hamdania Incident. Worse, someone claims Simons to be the founder of a Maryland surfboard company that had already been founded in California by Brett Ballou and Mike Huseman while Simons was simultaneously in Afghanistan and Hawaii. On the 3rd battalion 5th Marines’ notable members section, Simons is listed, but his bullet point is not aligned with the others.

Oh, and Simons’ name is misspelled once in the Hamdania Incident article. One last thing. All of this information – all of it – is completely and utterly unsourced. You will find Kennedy’s and Simon’s names in no military context other than the one Wikipedia is already providing for them. No other source confirms that Kennedy or Simons even exist.

This smacks of a pervasive and deliberate attempt to insert disinformation into the Wikipedia, and, while I’ve attempted to correct the errors I’ve found, I think the names of every Marine listed in the Murder and Kidnapping Charges section should be verified. I also want to suggest to the admins that they check the activity of the Scott0311 and Ajh1985 accounts. The first time Kennedy appears in the Hamdania Incident article is in October 2011, from an IP address originating from Denton, TX. I suspect that Scott may have created his own user page after he committed suicide, and, furthermore, I suspect that both he and Kennedy are alive and well somewhere in Texas or the general area around Denton, the DFW metroplex, and Oklahoma City.

We should discover whether we are dealing with multiple pranksters or a single prankster with multiple accounts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Simperfie (talk • contribs) 22:59, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

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