Talk:Hamlet (place)

Discussion 1
User:William Allen Simpson seems to have problems with understanding of

''In numerous provinces in Canada, there are officially designated municipalities, generally smaller than villages, classified as hamlets. There are some exceptions, such as Sherwood Park, Alberta, which has a population of more than 50,000 – well above that needed for city status — but which has retained hamlet status''

and constantly deletetes the Category:Subnational entities with the claim that it is not a subnational entity or not an administrative division.

He is known for making wrong claims and insisting on them without any possibility to talk. See Naming conventions (subnational entities). Don't be surprised if he will start calling other peoples contributions vandalism.

Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Someone else is obsessed with called Fort MacMurray a hamelt when it is not. It is an unincorporated urban zone with the funding status of a city. I get this information from the regional communications officer, who emphatically said it is not a hamlet and quoted from the regional amalgamation agreement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.75.25.247 (talk) 22:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:CITE. --Yamla 22:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

separate places named "Hamlet" from meanings of "hamlet"
(see also Talk:Hamlet (disambiguation))

The present page should be divided up in rather than dividing it in Geographical sections containing each a mixture of both of the above: I think its not useful to classify "Hamlet (Oregon)" in the same section than "in (...) New York, hamlets are unincorporated areas...", for example. &mdash; MFH:Talk 19:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * places named "Hamlet",
 * meanings of the word "hamlet"


 * Sorry, I thought Hamlet (Oregon) was like Hamlet, Indiana or so... in fact, it should be referred to as hamlet (Oregon) to avoid such a confusion. &mdash; MFH:Talk 19:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

(place)
I think this page should be moved to Hamlet(settlement) or Hamlet(Municipality). Place is very general and could include the things mentioned above, as well as Hamlet Place(a street in New Jersey) or other things--Whytecypress 20:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Untrue information
"The name comes from Anglo-Norman hamelet(t)e; Old North French hamelet, the diminutive of Old North French hamel, another diminutive of Old North French ham of Germanic origin, cognate with Dutch heem, German Heim, Swiss German cham or -kon, Old English hām and Modern English home, all derived from the Proto-Germanic *kham-.[1]" It's extremely unlikely that that few if any Old French words were borrowed from, or originated from Proto-Germanic. There is no verifiable evidence for this and I believe this excerpt is just poorly written enough to imply that the Old French term for hamlet is descended from Proto-Germanic. A change might be necessary.Napkin65 (talk) 14:49, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Update: I checked the Oxford English Dictionary and its etymology of the word is as follows: [a. OF. hamelet, in AFr. also hamelete, hamlette, (med.L. hameletum, -letta), secondary dim. of hamel: see HAMEL.]    Now that is not to say the Old French word from which "hamlet" is descended does not have a Germanic cognate, it does mean however that the Old French word is not derivative of a Germanic root. I'm going to go ahead and fix it.Napkin65 (talk) 14:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

__________ My two Cents I know this response is 8 years late and of little importance, but I would like to add my two cents as I find a few issues expressed above to be thought-provoking, the etymology paragraph as written (as of 5-17-18) is accurate by my estimation (its not worth much) but the arguments for changes written by Napkin65 in 2010 are a little weak. Granted, I believe that the original line he quotes is inaccurate, but not for the reason he thinks it is. So these comments should be read merely as considerations for any future changes.

The original lines make a claim that "all [those cognates are] derived from the Proto-Germanic *kham-"


 * kham-| is a root that fits neither the Proto-Germanic nor the Proto-Indo-European reconstructed forms:

The Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Germanic from 2013 by Guus Kroonen gives the form *haima - m.'village, home' as the source, itself descending from Proto-Indo-European *k̂ei-1- "to lie" +mo (stem) = *k̂eimo

However, Napkin65 isn't criticizing the writer on purely phonological grounds, but rather he makes a sweeping claim about history:

"It's extremely unlikely that that few if any Old French words were borrowed from, or originated from Proto-Germanic."-Napkin65

The claim that Old French borrowed from Germanic languages is largely uncontroversial. "A significant amount of Old Frankish vocabulary has been reconstructed by examining early Germanic loanwords found in Old French as well as through comparative reconstruction through Dutch." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_words_of_Germanic_origin

Second of all the original line suggests not that Hamlet is descended from a DIRECT borrowing from Proto-Germanic, but rather that the Cognates share common descent ultimately rooted in Germanic. In this case it is highly likely that Old French borrowed "ham" directly from Frankish, which in itself originated from Proto-Germanic, Wiktionary and Etymonline both support this derivation:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ham#Old_French https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hameau#French https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hamlet https://www.etymonline.com/word/hamlet

Therefore, Napkin's conclusion is a Strawman argument, because the original author is not making the claim Napkin is offering to counter.

Furthermore, if Medieval Hameletum were in fact the origin of the term in French ("it does mean however that the Old French word is not derivative of a Germanic root"), then it is still most likely to be ultimately derived from a borrowing of the Germanic term *haimaz into Latin, but a quick search of Lexilogos reveals no entry for the term in Classical Latin, which in turn begs the question. If not from Latin then from where? Ex nihilo?

The simplest solution is from some Germanic language spoken in the area. In this case Frankish, because, the evidence from Germanic language sources show us so many examples of cognates. (If we saw, say, as many examples of cognates in Celtic languages we would perhaps feel safe in offering a Gaulish alternative.)

The original statement simply followed the chain of evidence to an earlier reconstructable root (albeit an inaccurate one, or maybe its a transitional "Late PIE" form or "Pre-Germanic" one that I'm unfamiliar with), but whether or not you want to play devil's advocate, it's pretty clear that the original author wasn't claiming for a direct borrowing of *haimaz from Proto-Germanic to Old French, as those two languages are separated perhaps by as much as 1000 years. planeofdreams - 5-17-18 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:189:4203:1a2d:8114:23d1:68c5:3b38 (talk) 04:53, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Population
What are the population margins for a hamlet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biglulu (talk • contribs) 00:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

To complete
I propose to add Galician and Asturian (Sapin) hemlets, called "aldeas" (as well as other regions with this type of territorial organizations, as French Britain, in order to complete the document. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.111.155.172 (talk) 11:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

German hamlets
Someone needs to add German hamlets; Jamel is quite an infamous example of one. Stonemason89 (talk) 20:04, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


 * This was added, but I have removed it. Jamel is classified as a village, not a hamlet. Any examples of hamlets added to this article must first explain the legal definition of a hamlet in that country, and give example(s) of municipalities that fall under that classification.


 * Also, the phrase "Jamel is an infamous example of a hamlet ruled by neo-Nazis" is certainly not written in a neutral point of view. Jersey emt (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I have changed the word "Bauerschaft" to "Bauernschaft," which is the correct German word. Danwaggoner (talk) 22:48, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I added two examples, but found it difficult to give proper links or references, because hamlets do not have WP entries or homepages or so. Any improvement is welcome.--2A02:8109:9DC0:720C:7A2:5FAC:C5C8:4C3A (talk) 13:14, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Canadian "hamlets"
From the article, Canadian hamlets are village sized, and not what I would call hamlets, which would have a population of less than say twenty people and have around half a dozen houses or less. Or is the Canadian information some kind of vandalism? 92.28.255.228 (talk) 17:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hamlet definitions and sizes differ from country to country. Within countries, they can differ between their provinces, states, and territories. What a hamlet is typically known as in the UK can be different than what it is typically known as in the US. Similarly, what a hamlet is within the Province of Alberta in Canada is different that what it is within any of Canada's three territories. All the content within the "Canada" section is supported by references that are reliable sources, with the exception of one excerpt relating to Ontario. In fact, 13 of the article's 16 references are inline citations from within the "Canada" section. Content based on references from reliable sources does not constitute vandalism. Hwy43 (talk) 06:23, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Weiler and Heim
Both "Weiler 2 and "Heim" are southern expressions. Where do you get your information that they mainly exist in the south? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.220.132.212 (talk) 08:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, in northern Germany -trup or -torp are two of the terms used. Another example for namings of hamlets are the -inghausen settlements in southern Westphalia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.128.78 (talk) 10:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Hamlet in British geography
This article says that a hamlet lacks a church, but I thought that the way a hamlet differed from a village was that a hamlet just has houses, lacking a church, school, shops, pub, village green or anything apart from the houses. Vorbee (talk) 16:59, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The article says, both in the introduction and in the section "Germany", that hamlets lack a church. That is not true. Some German hamlets (Weiler) and some French hamlets (hameau) do in fact have a church. There is even a specific term for this in German, they are called "Kirchweiler" (church hamlets). The linked German Wikipedia article mentions this, in the second paragraph of the section "Der Weiler als Siedlungsform" (footnote 4). And the article contains an image of the church in Haynes Church End. If that is a hamlet, then the claim that hamlets don't have a church isn't true for Britain, either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.84.46 (talk) 10:30, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

"Hamlet"
The use of "Hamlet" is under discussion, see Talk:Hamlet (disambiguation).  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 08:38, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Under United States/New York is this sentence which doesn't make sense: Their approximate locations will often be noted on road signs, however, a specific service, such as water, sewer, or lighting to provide only that hamlet with services. Thoughts? Geopersona (talk) 16:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)