Talk:Hammer and sickle/Archive 1

H&S is not necessarily communist!
I added a "citation need" tag to the incipit (which reads "The hammer and sickle (☭) is a part of communist symbolism and its usage indicates an association with Communism"), in order to emphasize the general (and incorrect, IMHO) assumption that underlies the whole article, that the sickle and hammer is primarily or exclusively a symbol of communism. This assumption is incorrect and POV, imho, because the symbol has been used, at some time or another, by a wide range of socialist or social-democratic movements; evidence is easily found, and is even displayed in this very article, which shows the old coat of arms of the Italian Socialist Party -- which has never been communist (and, BTW, at a certain point of its history, around the end of the 1980's, even stopped being a left-wing party). Of course, the communist movement is a branch of the socialist movement, so it is no surprise that the symbol of socialism has been used by communists too, but that's quite a different thing than stating that the symbol is exclusively connected communism. Even more generally, the s.&.h has been a symbol for the labour movement at large, or even for the working class itself, as is clearly shown by its presence in the coat of arms of Austria, where it represents the working class, as a considerable part of the Austrian people, but certainly not an ideologia; the statement that the Austrian sickle and hammer is a different symbol beause the two tools are not superimposed is clearly risible, as many of the communist examples shown in the gallery of the article itself are not superimposed too. 82.119.193.179 (talk) 16:04, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

"Element of symbolics"
This isn't grammatical English. I've changed it to 'one of the symbols of' - is that what you mean? - David Gerard 17:20, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Communism Series
Seeing as this is an important part of Communist symbology, I was wondering if it would be appropriate to add it to the Communism Series?
 * I think it would be very appropriate. Rugxulo 20:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

What about Austria and Chile?
Hammer and sickle are also represented on the Coat of arms of Austria. How do we fit that in? Zocky 23:13, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, the Coat of arms of Austria page states:"The eagle's claws hold a golden sickle and a golden hammer. While at first sight this might lead to an association with communist symbols the golden mural crown on the head of the eagle makes it clear, that these three merely represent the unity of the three "classes" (workers, peasants and bourgeoisie) in the republic - not quite class war."

So, I don't think it would fit in here in the context of a page about a Communist symbol. Maybe, though, there could be a brief section about the appearance on the Austrian arms? BDWill Talk 21:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Chile used the symbols from 1895 to 1940 on coins with a condor on a rock on the obverse and an olive wreath on the reverse. Where the two branches cross is a hammer and a sickle, replacing the tied ribbon used before. The change was a consequence of the 1891 civil war between the parliament and president Balcameda. --Peterk2 20:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Unicode character
On the article, a Unicode character depicting the hammer and sickle is present. I am unable to view it. What can I download to be able to see it? 68.36.99.86 21:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You can try installing a font that covers most of the Unicode characters. Try out Code2000. --Abdull 20:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hammer and Sickle origins
The 'Hammer and Sickle' was origionally a Hammer and Plough. Should this be included (I can cite a source) in the article?

PJB 17:16, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)


 * If it's true and you can cite an acceptable source, don't even ask, just do. Leushenko (talk) 05:07, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Hammer and sickle contradicts Marx, in that he said a revolution would only come from the proletariat...
The lines

It should be noted that, although the symbol is widespread in communism, it contradicts Karl Marx's beliefs that the revolution would come entirely from the proletariat.

are true in that Marx originally said this, but I think I heard somewhere that he (or Engels) later said that a revolution could also come from the peasantry too, or at least significantly include them. Can anyone back this up? It's probably a minor point, but still.

PJB 17:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the story is Marx' thinking was based on the German situation and factory workers were the key to the revolution of the proletariat. Lenin included the peasants, because in the Russian situation, the proletariat was largely agricultural and factory workers far less important than in Germany. --Peterk2 20:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Dead link
This link, which is in the external links section with the label "A rendition of the logo of Britain's Transport and General Workers Union (letter T and G crossed in the fashion of a hammer and sickle)" is dead, showing the regular "Not found" message.

I've removed the link. BDWill Talk 00:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Random entry about Austrian arms
"A number of symbols show some stylistical similarity to the hammer and sickle without necessarily featurin design was meant to represent the two main classes in Austrian society at the time of its conception, the workers and peasants." was replaced with the version here.
 * --BDWill Talk Contribs 04:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Top or bottom?
It features a sickle superimposed on a hammer.

Maybe the hammer is superimposed on the sickle? --Abdull 20:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Accoding to this, it's sickle on hammer. 68.39.174.238 03:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Death to the forces of reactionary capitalism!
...um, yeah. Since hammer and sickle is a generic symbol, not a proper noun or trademark, there's no need to capitalise the term, which fits better with Wikipedia style. (WP:MOSCAPS). –EdC 15:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Mirror image variants
I've just been confused about the two mirror variants of the hammer and sickle. The variant depicted here (with the hammer's head to the upper-left corner, and the blade of the sickle to the right) seems to be the more common one, but on http://www.lutte-ouvriere.org/ we find the reverse. Should this be mentioned under "variants"? --Gro-Tsen 03:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hapoel1.jpg
Image:Hapoel1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hammer and dove.png
Image:Hammer and dove.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Hammer and Plow
Can someone add information on the symbol used BEFORE the Hammer and Sickle, the Hammer and Plow?

-G

The relevance of the communist star?
The first paragraph of the article seems to suggest the hammer and sickle symbolize communism. I may be misinformed, but I remember reading (as far as the red flag of the Soviet Union is concerned) that the star represents the Communist Party, the hammer the prole, the sickle the peasant and the color red represents revolution. I understand the hammer and sickle have come to symbolize communism (and are used by communist parties as such), but it seems rather critical to note that without the star, the symbolism can be interpreted differently, revealing the value of the star itself. Shared knowledge on this subject would be appreciated. --72.161.23.71 22:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wording changed. `'Míkka 05:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

What?
"Serp i Molot (Russian language for 'sickle and hammer' (in fact, it is the actual Russian name of this symbol) is the name of the Moscow Metallurgical Plant."

Looks like English... is made up of mostly English words... but what on Earth does it mean? Typical wikiality crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.129.174 (talk) 00:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Asian Development Bank
I was just watching on NHK, and they showed one of the ADB's locations, the main gates of the place had a cog and whaet emblem on it.

71.181.178.253 (talk) 03:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Hammer and sickle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131112194049/http://www.allmoldova.com/en/moldova-news/1249056313.html to http://www.allmoldova.com/en/moldova-news/1249056313.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/10/20/artists-summoned-over-communist-symbol-exhibition.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:07, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hammer and sickle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160816163416/http://www.picture-russia.com/en/painter/582 to http://www.picture-russia.com/en/painter/582

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Irrelevant / wrong information
The article currently states: >> The hammer and sickle (and by extension the scythe) symbols are a sickle used to harvest grain crops and the type or style of hammer, used to make a razor sharp edge on the sickles and scythes. <<

Apart from being a very awkwardly constructed sentence, this is factually wrong. Sickles (and scythes) are sharpened using whetstones, not hammers. I propose removing the sentence altogether. -- Picapica (talk) 08:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Seconded. PrussianOwl (talk) 16:27, 22 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Picapica, PrussianOwl: Removed . --MarioGom (talk) 21:20, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Nazi use of the Hammer and sickle symbol
Strangely, no one noticed that the ideology that evolved from communism used the hammer and sickle symbols at least for the Nazi "Labor Day" and side by side with the swastika. Search for Tag der Arbeit 1934. 24.159.123.222 (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * What kind of fucking idiot thinks that Nazism "evolved from" communism? The asshole above, that's who. Now that is strange! Maybe he should read more and type less garbage. 174.89.132.146 (talk) 11:52, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Unless it has to do with the content of the page, it's neither here nor there. Talk pages aren't forums after all. Best, PrussianOwl (talk) 10:34, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:53, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Logo del PCU.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:37, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Logo - Nieuwe Communistische Partij van Nederland (2022).svg

Aeroflot citation
I found some citations for Aeroflot's use of the hammer and sickle.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120320234526/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2986535.stm

https://aviationweek.com/aeroflot-logo-keep-hammer-sickle

https://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/8035/

-- KomradeKalashnikov (talk) 12:42, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Logo Maki.png

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:08, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * KTP Emblem 2019.png