Talk:Hampton Roads/Archive 1

Infobox Area stats
I noticed the area was off by a lot so I compiled the data from the U.S. Census, I plugged them into the Infobox, but it seems to be broken with the KM2. Not sure what is causing this, but the data are there. Also included is the land area, but this particular infobox template didn't allow for those specifics. Hope someone can help with that. DAMurphy (talk) 01:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Largest Harbour?
Doesn't Sydney have the world's largest natural harbo(u)r? Alai 04:51, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, they have the world's largest, but the article refers to Hampton Roads as the world's greatest - I believe it is meant in the context of most use. I Typed For Miles 15:19, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Geography
Actually I'd missed that reference: what I was referring to was, from the "Geography" section:
 * The water area known as Hampton Roads, world's largest natural harbor

Changes were made to reflect updated Census data and definitions for the metro area, however someone reverted all the changes back to the outdated and incorrect previous text:
 * (1) Franklin and Southampton County are now in the MSA
 * (2) Surry County is no longer in the MSA and hasn't been for years; thus making incorporated towns within Surry no longer in the MSA
 * (3) There are three North Carolina counties in the MSA: Camden, Currituck, and Gates (it even mentions them earlier in the page)
 * (4) There are incorporated towns in Southampton County that are now part of the MSA
 * (5) The latest population estimate (July 1, 2022) of the MSA is over 1.8 million
 * (6) There is no "eastern portion" of the Peninsula
 * (7) With the addition of Franklin, there are now ten independent cities in the MSA, not nine

Please take a few moments to actually check the facts before reverting back to incorrect data. Thank you.

Harbor Debate
Whereas the article harbor doesn't even mention it as a "contender"... Alai 14:28, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Seven Cities?
Seven cities is quickly gaining popularity with everyone even halfway cool. I believe it will replace the disgusting and meaningless ""Hampton roads" and the unclear "tidewater" names within the next year or two as seven cities will be used to advertise to the in crowd when discussing our area here. Now don't get defensive about these dusty old nicknames, get a modern culture. also, i suggest hiding from the term "Americas first region" what a joke. I'm embarrassed to even mention it. Also why is there no mention this area is half blacks? get real  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.82.154 (talk) 18:29, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I can see why the Hampton Roads area could be nicknamed The Seven Cites, I have never herd that before. CCrew029
 * Me neither, but found some on the web, ,

I have lived in four of these so-called "seven cities" in the past 30 years, and this is the first time I have ever heard that phrase. I think it's something that someone from outside the Tidewater (a.k.a. Hampton Roads) area dreamed up. It's certainly not used around here. I suggest removing the phrase "seven cities" from the article. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

 Portfolio Weekly - "The Alternative Voice of the Seven Cities" claims:

Editor’s response: First of all, "Hampton Roads" should be taken out in a field somewhere in Suffolk and put out of its misery. True, a lot of people tolerate it as a lukewarm compromise; some people even defend it, although their arguments always seem rooted in a sense of civic duty rather than personal passion. But I’ve never met anyone who actually likes the name. And why would they? It is neither descriptive (unless you happen to be a 17th- century mariner transported here by time machine) nor meaningful to anyone outside of this region. Moreover, it lacks any kind of aural resonance.

"Tidewater" is OK, although to my mind it sounds too much like "backwater."

The Seven Cities, by contrast, sounds almost mythical. The point is not that the region stops at the boundaries of these cities – only that they represent its core. Other cities and counties can still be considered part of the Seven Cities region – and very important parts at that.

Still, we don’t take these concerns lightly. In the interest of inclusiveness, perhaps we should simply amend the name as follows: "The Alternative Voice of the Seven Cities and Outlying Municipalities and Counties That Are Part of the Officially Designated Metropolitan Statistical Area, Including But Not Limited To Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Newport News, Hampton, Williamsburg, Poquoson, Zuni and Ivor.

Then again, we could make it really easy and accept the name the rest of the world already uses: NORFOLK.


 * Are we really having this discussion? I've lived in Hampton roads all my life, and I've certainly heard of the term "Seven cities" plenty of times. I can promise you that Seven cities is used, though not as often as Hampton Roads. &mdash; ዮም  | (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 23:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we merge this with Seven City or Seven Cities of Hampton Roads? Too much needless duplication, in my opinion? JeffConn (talk) 19:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

As best I can tell, "Seven Cities" was first used by Portfolio Weekly. When that publication laid off staff, one of it's former employees started up a website, now called AltDaily.com, that was originally called "Seven Cities." I believe they have been the main push behind the term. Personally, I think it's somewhat closeminded and anti-teamwork "seven cities." First, it implies that we, in Hampton Roads, can't even agree on a common name that somehow differientiates us from any other area. Second, it leaves out all the areas that are not one of the seven major cities. Stick with Hampton Roads. It's the name of what put this region on the map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.54.20.242 (talk) 13:45, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow, there is a lot wrong on here. The term Seven Cities is not new. It was used in the Daily Press newspaper in 1965 (https://www.newspapers.com/image/232640160/?terms=%22Seven+cities%22), only a couple of years after the newest of those cities was established. Mtnjr (talk) 03:50, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Merge with Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA article

 * No My vote is no. I think that having the Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA as a separate article is correct, mostly because it includes outlying areas which do not consider themselves part of Hampton Roads, nor does anyone else.


 * NO Such a suggestion is totally inconsistent with WP structure in other Project Virginia articles. Vaoverland 12:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * NO The areas are distinct to many/most Virginians. CsikosLo 13:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * YES Try going to the article of another other MSA in the country. They all redirect to a less formal name (even in the state, Richmond, VA MSA redirects to Richmond-Petersburg).  This is the case with all major metros in the nation.  I don't buy the argument that they shouldn't be merged because Hampton Roads' "borders" may not exactly match the definition of the Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA.  Go to any metro area in the country and you're bound to find people who associate themselves with the nearby region even though they are technically outside of the MSA.  Hampton Roads is a loosely defined term which certainly applies to all cities/counties in the MSA.  Additionally, Hampton Roads is the common name given to Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA by nearly everyone and as such should be merged to align with all other MSA articles.--Conk 9 (talk) 22:15, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

revise lead, request consideration as WP Good Article
I reworked the lead section with a goal of balancing descriptions of the the water and land areas, adding some major current and historic aspects. All content removed (ie nicknames, etc.) from lead was added in other sections. I also have requested this article be considered for Good Article status. Mark in the Historic Triangle Vaoverland 06:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a good article. I just took out some vandalism ("if you still call it Tidewater, you must be over 70"). CsikosLo 13:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Transportation
I realize that some of text of the the lead section of this article is repeated (and expanded slightly) in the lead of the Transportation sub-section. IMHO, we are quickly approaching the size where it will be appropriate to spin out much of the transportation details into their own separate WP article (i.e. Transportation in Hampton Roads). So, please bear with the repetition (for now, anyway). Vaoverland 12:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Rename article to Hampton Roads, Virgina
Most articles I see about towns and cities in the US have a comma and the state as part of the article itself. Jon
 * Hampton Roads is neither a town nor a city. It is a region, in the style of the San Francisco Bay Area, the Inland Empire, etc. faithless   (speak)  08:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it is fine as it is; there is no need to disambig further, as there is no other Hampton Roads. Many articles in WP Virginia link here; please do not rename Mark in Historic Triangle 12:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mark. Many books and references use the term Hampton Roads without any further mention.  Do a google and most references will not use the style Hampton Roads, Virginia.  I do not think there is a need for a name change unless there is some confusion with another article. VirginiaProp 15:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mark. The comma and state is only necessary if there are multiple places with the same name and we need to differentiate.  To my knowledge, there is no other place named Hampton Roads.-- Kubigula (talk) 13:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If there were any others, it should be Hampton Roads (Virginia). Obviously, there isn't. And it shouldn't be Hampton Roads, Virginia as it isn't a city. Hampton Roads is an informal designation, and not at all "official." Therefore, Hampton Roads is the way it ought to be. Sorry if my previous comment was a little ambiguous. faithless   (speak)  13:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Hampton Roads is a channel between Hampton and Norfolk,Virginia nothing more. To call this area "Hampton Roads" is too confusing. It was a marketing ploy for the area. This area is known now and before as "Tidewater". All of the locals know it as such, mariners know it as Tidewater, Virginia. Do not be mistaken.

There was an Author that wrote a book, "Civil War History in Hampton Roads" when challenged about the name use of "Hampton Roads", he acknowledged that "Hampton Roads" was a channel between Hampton and Norfolk, but that "Tidewater", which would be and area effected by the the tides was to broad of an area. So even though no other events but waterborne could have taken place in "Hampton Roads", he used the area to promote his book. Afterall, those of us that live here are not in a channel or underwater.

Additionally, I believe it was in 1905 Hampton Roads expedition evemt was held off the coast of the Navel Station Norfolk by the "Great White Fleet". Many events were held on the land in honor of this. Some in the area refer to this event as the start of using the name "Hampton Roads". But what is known is that the fleet was anchored in "Hampton Roads", the name of the channel. The area is known as Tidewater and will be continued to be referred to as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.146.55 (talk • contribs)
 * I disagree. Hampton Roads has become the more common name for the area among people who live here.  For example, the local TV stations  refer to it as Hampton Roads.  "Tidewater" is used too, but "Hampton Roads" is clearly becoming the more common designation for people who live here.-- Kubigula (talk) 18:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow, lot of wrong going on here. First, the "Hampton Roads" expedition was known as the Jamestown Exposition of 1907 ( Naval Operating Base Hampton Road was built in 1917 on the grounds of the Exposition.) Secondly, a roads is short for roadstead, an old English term for safe harbor, not a channel. Thirdly, "Tidewater" is the phrase to describe all of Virginia east of the "Fall Line," not southeast Virginia. Gcal1971 (talk) 02:23, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Transportation
I don't know if it's been fixed, but this comment of mine got deleted regarding the ODU Maglev project:

That maglev project at ODU is defunct. The project collapsed after the university stopped funding it after they couldn't repair the engineering design fault. --RWilliamKing 06:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC) See --RWilliamKing (talk) 16:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.odu.edu/ao/instadv/archive/stories/maglev.html
 * http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=106477&ran=82149
 * http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122680&ran=183404

Revolutionary War
The article says "Important conflicts of the American Revolutionary War involved Norfolk and Craney Island (at the mouth of the Elizabeth River in Portsmouth). It was at Norfolk where the last Royal Governor of the Virginia Colony, Lord Dunmore, departed mainland Virginia for the last time." How about the Battles of Chesapeake and Yorktown? Aren't they in the area as defined in the article? They're certainly more significant than what's mentioned in the section. Dvd Avins (talk) 23:47, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Hampton Road flag
This article mentions the new HR flag, but doesn't show an image of it. Would it be possible to include an image? Or are there copyright issues i don't understand at work? JeffConn (talk) 16:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I found, and added the Hampton Roads flag. JeffConn (talk) 03:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Merger Request
This is a request to merge Seven Cities of Hampton Roads and Seven City into Hampton Roads. All 3 articles cover the same area. JeffConn (talk) 13:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I concur with Jeffcon; I also request that Tidewater region of Virginia be merged into Hampton Roads as well. "Tidewater" is an unofficial name for the region, and, currently, the article is classified as a stub. Ann Magill (talk) 17:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

formerly known as Tidewater
That's a lot of comment based on a weak (nonscholarly) source Tedickey (talk) 22:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Split the article into Hampton Roads Harbor and Hampton Roads Metropolitan Area?
Would it make sense to split this article into two: one about the actual body of water and another about the metropolitan area? Other metro areas that are named for a body of water have separate articles (see Tampa Bay vs. Tampa Bay Area or San Francisco Bay vs. San Francisco Bay Area).--Conk 9 (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably - it's gotten a bit long. Offhand, most of the content in the current topic would go to the former Tedickey (talk) 21:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)


 * If this is done, please follow the directions here: Split. Also, please use a move to move to the article that will contain the bulk of the text that is currently at Hampton Roads, as this will preserve the history in a less disruptive way. I think the names suggested here are preferable to Hampton Roads (harbor) and Hampton Roads (region). Please get some consensus before moving. ErikHaugen (talk) 20:21, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Two Glaring Mistakes on the Map
The map of Virgina and North Carolina shows the two states very inaccurately aligned (over 20 miles off at the western end of their border.) It's also missing the border between James City and Charles City and colors both red as if it's a single entity. James City is part of the Virginia Beach–Norfolk–Newport News, VA–NC MSA, but Charles City is part of a different MSA (Richmond, VA MSA) so that's kind of an important border that's screwed up there. rainfrog 11:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainfrog (talk • contribs)

Also the map has Lancaster, Middlesex, Gloucester, Mathews, James City, York, Isle of Wight, Surry, and Currituck Counties shaded. The article only lists Gloucester, Isle of Wight, James City, Mathews, Surry, York, and Currituck as being part of the MSA. This leaves Lancaster and Middlesex, neither of which are listed as a part of the MSA here http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/bulletins/b10-02.pdf I dont know how to change the map. But it should probably be fixed.

PLEASE EDIT/CLARIFY: "Attractions"
Ladies and Gentilemen: Under the heading of "Attractions" I feel that an edit is in order. True, the Cole MIGHT be an "attraction". But it is not open for tours, nor is it easily accessable to the general public. There is a memorial to the Cole victims, but it is at Naval Station Norfolk, placed at Iowa Point. A better clarification might be to label the USS Wisconsin at Nauticus, downtown Norfolk; as an attraction. As of now, the Wisconsin is in the public domain, transfer of ownership from the US Navy to the city of Norfolk being recently completed. 205.56.129.194 (talk) 15:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I dropped the USS Cole from this section. Unless they have moved it, I last saw it anchored out in the harbor amongst colliers awaiting loading berths and Newport News or Lambert's Point. Not to belittle its honor, but it surely is not accessible as an attraction.


 * I also took the opportunity to rework other portions of the culture section, a lot of staleness and some items obviously had been pulled from promotional source verbatim (a WP no-no!). Also, I added a note about the Children's Museum, which is undergoing a tremendous expansion and renovation, but for the next year is only able to have very limited offerings in greatly reduced borrowed space. We could use some more content on other items, such as the non-for-profit Virginia Zoo, which now has a 1/3 scale working steam locomotive visitors can ride, the Living Museum in NN, etc. Hopefully other editors will rise to this opportunity to contribute. Thanks, Vaoverland (talk) 19:18, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Population Density
Are you sure that's right? That's about the same as the New York City metropolitan area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.130.207 (talk) 23:57, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

demographics
According to the 2010 Census, the racial composition of Hampton Roads was as follows:

White or Caucasian: 57.2% Black or African American: 30.6% American Indian: 0.3% Asian: 3.5% Some other race: 0.2% Two or more races: 2.8% Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 5.4% — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.146.49 (talk) 04:02, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Nansemond River vs Hampton Roads
The (poorly sourced) Nansemond River topic says this is a tributary of the James River, which lacking a WP:RS to the contrary, means that it cannot empty directly into Hampton Roads as the recent edit asserts TEDickey (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

History section
The previous version was almost the full 'History of Hampton Roads' article word-for-word. I have edited-down the first half (17th-19th centuries). If this seems in correct proportion, perhaps someone else may care to do the same for the rest of the History section. Valetude (talk) 19:28, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Assessment comment
Substituted at 17:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Lede vs topic contents
Recent edits introduced a whole new topic within the lede, including several sources outside the current scope of this topic. Ledes are a summary of the topic, rather than an excuse to write essays TEDickey (talk) 10:43, 10 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I moved the new paragraph to the geography section for the time being.  I don't know if that's that the best solution, but it's better than adding it to the lede.-- Mojo Hand (talk) 14:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

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suggestions to improve wording?
"Norfolk and Hampton Roads are among the worst-hit parts of the United States regarding effects of global warming. As of 2016, the region is a few decades ahead in feeling the effects of sea-level rise compared to many American coastal areas." 69.58.42.90 (talk) 20:15, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

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