Talk:Happier Than Ever (song)/Archive 1

Your Power is song being released April 29
Happier Than Ever is not being released on that date, instead Your Power is - check Instagram — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobias Reiper (talk • contribs)
 * The article does not mention an April 28 release date anywhere. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 17:05, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I meant April 29, this song is being replaced by Your Power on that date, posted by her today on Instagram

Requested move 27 April 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved by (non-admin closure). D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 01:34, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Happier Than Ever → Happier Than Ever (song) – Please also move Happier Than Ever (album) to Happier Than Ever, as album titles should be WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Nahnah4 (talk &#124; contribs) 15:28, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink).    Kadzi    (talk) 16:03, 27 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Support Happier Than Ever Happier Than Ever (song), oppose Happier Than Ever (album)  Happier Than Ever. The song and album were both announced not even 24 hours ago. To determine a primary topic right now is impossible. Coverage has been equal between the two, pageviews are inflated per WP:RECENTISM, etc. We should wait until everything calms down, and then we can re-assess which out of the two is a primary topic. Albums aren't always the primary topic. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 16:33, 27 April 2021 (UTC) (updated 21:45, 27 April 2021 (UTC))
 * Support -- Happier Than Ever → Happier Than Ever (song), oppose Happier Than Ever (album) → Happier Than Ever for now. The album has more coverage in reliable sources than the song already. However, it is not clearly established as the primary topic yet. A dab page is the way to go.--NØ 16:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. This seems to be WP:CONSISTENT with other albums that have a title track. See Please Please Me, Let it Bleed, American Idiot, Wide Open Spaces, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Back to Black, etc.  Combefere  ❯❯❯  Talk  21:21, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Oops!... I Did It Again is a perfect example of how there is no primary topic, and if you made a RM there and cited consistency with other articles as the reason for the move, it would fail. Update: Examples of times where the song was the primary topic include Wichita Lineman, My Generation and Hotel California, and more examples of times where there was no primary topic between the song and the album are Baby One More Time, Like a Virgin and Like a Prayer. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 21:45, 27 April 2021 (UTC) (updated 21:52, 27 April 2021 (UTC))
 * OTHERSTUFFEXISTS itself states: "this essay is not a standard reply that can be hurled against anyone you disagree with who has made a reference to how something is done somewhere else." Precedent on Wikipedia is a good and necessary thing. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support both (maybe prematurely); every source I've seen thus far has almost exclusively referred to the album (some of which are included in the article already). An album is always going to receive larger coverage overall than the title track, but this RM was still done too soon—There is no deadline. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:16, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Happier Than Ever (disambiguation) In ictu oculi (talk) 15:37, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment – Billie has just announced that the lead single will be a song called "Your Power", so I don't think we need an article for the title track until its notability is established, and then we can just go without the disambiguation for this article. Nahnah4 (talk &#124; contribs) 16:19, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * If everyone is in agreement, let us ask for the RM to be closed, redirect this to the album page and get the latter moved here. What say?--NØ 16:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Just to clarify: the song page will be incubated in draftspace until sources have decided if the song will actually be a single or not. In the meantime, the album page will be moved to Happier Than Ever. Both disambiguators (Happier Than Ever (song) and Happier Than Ever (album)) will redirect to the main page. If the song page is moved back to mainspace, we can reassess the primary topic then. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 16:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think anything needs to be draftified. This article can just be moved to Happier Than Ever (song) and turned into a redirect there with the page history preserved. Draftifying leads to WP:GAMING by people who want to get rid of the draft and fraudulently claim to be the article's creator later on.--NØ 17:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the heads up! In that case, like you said, the article can just be moved and redirected. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 17:53, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed Combefere  ❯❯❯  Talk  20:25, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support – seems like the most logical course of action at this point in time. Sean Stephens (talk) 07:42, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

We need two moves performed as soon as possible. Every RM participant has agreed to them. Thank you so much.--N</b><b style="color:teal">Ø</b> 18:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Happier Than Ever → Happier Than Ever (song)
 * Happier Than Ever (album) → Happier Than Ever
 * I'm going to go ahead and close the discussion as the move has already been carried out. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 01:34, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Redirect to album article?
If this isn't the single, I'm not sure what's the point in keeping it. The coverage mostly stems from a misunderstanding some sources had. They thought Eilish was announcing a single title, not an album title.--<b style="color:purple">N</b><b style="color:teal">Ø</b> 17:54, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think this should be redirected as well, and Happier Than Ever (album) should be moved here. It was definitely a misunderstanding. D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 18:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Draftifying could always be an option, until further confirmation from reliable sources provides evidence that the title track will in fact be released. Just putting it out there. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:25, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Single
As I’m not a specialist about the music industry, can someone explain me why this song can’t be considered as a single, please? Himeros • talk 03:10, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not a specialist in the music industry either, but I think I can explain. The short answer is that the song was never promoted as a single. If it was, we would see sources use the wording "single", we would see the song being promoted to various radio stations, etc., so we would list it as a single. The fact that the song received a music video is not enough to list it as a single, because having a music video doesn't make a song a single. I hope this helped to clarify your understanding! Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 13:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * However, according to the page itself, it was promised to be album's next single + it was called a signle in an article by ARIA Charts. I'm not saying we should change the status of the song right now, since I don't think it can be counted as single yet. infsai (dyskusja) 19:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I just removed that, as it was 100% a guess made by NME themselves. ARIA is reliable, and I still stand by my comment above (we would see sources use the wording 'single'), so I do think the song should be listed as a single in light of this new information. Since an independent release date was never specified, I think we should go with July 30, 2021, due to the fact that the date is when the song was first released. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 19:30, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Outlets have a habit of calling everything a "single". For example, Pitchfork called Doja Cat's "Tonight" ft. Eve a single even though it obviously isn't. The ARIA chart is called "Singles Chart" so that may be why they chose to refer to it as a "single". Plenty of songs get music videos but no actual release (e.g., "God Control"). If there is no date given then I don't think we can refer to stuff as a single just because the word "single" was used. We can't assume dates either. Heartfox (talk) 22:59, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The song was sent to US CHR, but it's another "Traitor" situation where it was never listed at Future Releases, so we don't have a definite date. Judging by the other four songs listed in the top five, they were all promoted this week (August 17), so I think it's safe to say this got promoted then too, but I can't be sure. Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 14:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SINGLE?, the only really reliable sources on a song's single release are Billboard and the Official Charts Company. The latter source mentioned the song as a single several times and they also mentioned its release date as July 30. Billboard also indicated that the song was an independent release from its parent album on the same day. Obviously, music videos are no indication of a single release, however, they are a form of streaming so that does give this song somewhat of an independent release on 30 July. As for the All Access cool new music,, I would say that does also indicate a independent release, but it is unreliable for an actual "impact" date. For example, it says that "Traitor" was released there on June 22, 2021 when, according to a Billboard editor it is August 10. Another example is Dua Lipa's "Love Again" which was posted there the same day as "Traitor", but didn't actually impact until July 6. I think at most, a release there should be considered a promotional single release. "Happier than Ever" was posted on there on August 12, 2021.  LOVI  33  17:54, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Given the Official Charts Company articles which refer to it as a single with a release date of July 30, I think we have no choice but to classify it as one. The Cool New Music page is not impact dates, but given that a radio edit has been made available on All Access, it appears it has a semi-official release for radio airplay in the U.S. as well. Although I personally think it's still just a "song" for now, we can't ignore sources like the Official Charts Company so I would support "Happier Than Ever"'s status as a single with a release date of July 30, 2021. Heartfox (talk) 19:30, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not responding, my ability to receive pings has been inconsistent recently. I concur with Heartfox, we can't ignore the two publications listed at SINGLE?. I will make the needed changes now. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 17:40, 21 August 2021 (UTC)