Talk:Happy hardcore/Archive 1

Proposed Revamp
I would like to undertake to speak with some of the pioneers of Happy Hardcore to get a fleshed out timeline and some more content for this article, which is at this time essentially a stub. I will post proposed added content here for review before altering the primary page. DynamicUno (talk) 16:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The issue is that it doesn't matter who you speak with or whether your information is correct or not, you'll still need to have reliable sources referenced in the article that verifies the information itself. Without such references, any additions to the article will be considered original research and removed. Silver  seren C 16:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

This article is lacking in the extreme
This article is lacking in the extreme, theres no mention of hardcore legands such as DJ Tom Wilson and his now stuff of legend radio show 'Steppin Out' that people used to drive up into scotland to hear, tapes of his shows where almost a must in the Hardcore/Happy Hardcore scene. No mention of Bass-Generator and his label/Events of the same name. No mention of big events like Rezerection & Helter Skelter. More missing legands are the likes of TTF! Collin Tennet's Jolly Rodger records, no mention of shoop records, of the now famous Tom Wilson-vs-Lenny dee mix off at rezerection. Would someone else who's memory of the scene is as clear as mine please add this stuff as my edits get messy :-) --Poosh 13:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well lets respond to this...
 * Tom Wilson was Bouncy techno not Happy Hardcore (and was mentioned in this article for a while before being removed).
 * Bass Generator is again Bouncy Techno not Happy Hardcore, hell I talk to the guy somewhat frequently on one of my message boards, even he agrees his music was not HHC.
 * this is about the music not the parties as such events like Rezerection and Helter Skelter do not belong on here. I seem to recall both being mentioned in the article Rave party however (which is where the mentions do belong).
 * Jolly Roger records (no D) is again not Happy Hardcore. It is more properly categorized as Bouncy Techno/Happy Gabber, per this link: "Bouncy Techno from Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland" and you would know this if you ever went to purchase these records somewhere (I have virtually the entire JR back catalogue except #'s 9, 11, 23 and all but one of the JR Lite). The same applies to labels such as Mokum (which you would probably also incorrectly refer to as happy hardcore). Don't feel bad about this one, it a very highly debated point (especially on boards like happyhardcore.com and ush.net) as to whether or not Dutch influenced/released tracks with the typical gabber kickdrum can be classified as happy hardcore.
 * Shoop is also Bouncy Techno per this page description: "Bouncy Techno and Tartan Techno label from Kirkcaldy, Scotland. Founded by DJ ZBD in 1993."
 * I hope you realize that we're not intentionally ignoring your comments, just merely telling you its in the wrong place. I suggest you do add your information, but in Bouncy techno instead.  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 14:32, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that a happy hardcore techno artist exists that calls them self happy hardcore. Unfortunatly I an new enough that I do not know how to creat a disambiguation page.  If some one could do that it would be great.

Foolishben 22:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ALKIVAR is correct. Some of this confusion is likely due to the different meanings that "Happy Hardore" has/had throughout the world just like "Hardcore".


 * Tom Wilson covered pretty much everything playing all types of stuff. He probably could go on here and elsewhere on Wikipedia (probably best suited elsewhere). Some of his stuff he produced on vinyl was House and Euro Trance too.


 * You can see on the flyer link here for an February 2006 rave coming up, that it says for Bass Generator - "Bassy G championed the Gabber and Bouncy Techno sound". --Revolt 17:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the so-called 'unwiki' version, and as an old skool/hardcore DJ from the scene, I think it is quite true......

--DJ Slam, (comin on strong, 1991)

I rescued the above contributor's contribution to the page. It needs work for sure, but I think anon and Ahoerstemeier's summary deletion seemed a bit harsh. Please do not bite the newcomers. I am a little skeptical about its source however. It is written in a very particular style and appeared out of "nowhere" fully researched and written. I did a quick google test on some of the "choice phrases" but turned up nothing. The contributor appears to have been personally involved in the topic, so I may be mistaken. (Hopefully). Nevertheless, it suffers from being a bit obtuse in that it doesn't explain some things. As Ahoerstemeier pointed out, it also needs some wikification. (I don't think submissions that aren't fully wikified deserve to be deleted, however. I often make submissions I know need to be wikified. I'm just too lazy to do it right away.) I also bet it's a bit POV, although I'm not sure how--it just exudes opinion is all. Hopefully someone with better knowledge of the subject (i.e. not pathetic me with just a single "Happy 2B Hardcore" CD) can improve it. I, for one, would be interested to know more than what is written here, or at least know what it all means. -- Nohat 01:22, 2003 Oct 5 (UTC)

Well, an anon came along and disputed part of the article, so I'll move their comment (which they had inappropriately included in the article) and the section they disputed to here. I have no personal knowledge of the subject whatsoever, but the mention of a teenager who died needs more context. Was that incident well-known, or is that just someone's cautionary tale? Isomorphic 13:30, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Moved from article:

the following section has been starred out because of the absurdity. 1 person dies from 1 pill, yet hundreds of thousands do not. More people die from alcohol poisoning.

Who wrote this anyhow? ~"With attitudes to the rave scene still unchanged, happy hardcore had a very long way to go before ever even thinking about achieving commercial success"~ Whoever thought we wanted to achieve commercial success? I'd say most ravers are opposed to this view.


 * Sadly, the danger of the raves lived on. In November 1995, Leah Betts, an Essex teenager, died on her 18th birthday after taking one fatal ecstacy tablet. With attitudes to the rave scene still unchanged, happy hardcore had a very long way to go before ever even thinking about achieving commercial success.*

This was a massively publicised incident, i was only 9 years old in 1995 and i still remember her name and it being all over the news back then. However, tragic as it was, it hasn't really got anything to do with happy hardcore and so doesn't belong on this page. Maybe it would be more useful on a page about ecstasy/drugs generally. Also i think it's wrong to assume everyone who goes to raves is taking e, or that everyone who takes e is into rave music. I personally have very strong views against drugs but i still wouldnt put this in the article, it's really got no valid connection. (Danrhyn 20:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC))


 * To add to that, i recall that none of the group were known to be particular fans of this genre and from the stories i've read appear to have been into brit-pop and indie rock at the time plus the cause of death was later found to be water intoxication rather than a drug related death. --Neon white 02:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I recently updated the Happy Hardcore entry to include djs more significantly influential in the old skool days. Included more current sub genre information on Freeform Hardcore the sound predominantly pushing forward the scene in the UK and worldwide. Removed various junglist bias statements about happy hardcore. Fixed broken links and actually spent several hours tracking down some of the various djs mentioned so as to link directly to their home pages. Alkivar
 * Thanks for doing that, I have converted the external links to wikilinks and moved all the external links to the relevant external links section. External links should not be inline in wikipedia articles most links in inline text (except in rare cases) should be internal wikilinks (see: External links, and especially: Don't use external links where we'll want Wikipedia links) so that a page on that artist can be created.  If the artist is warranted to be encyclopedic enough to have an article created on them, then the link to that artists homepage can also be added to that page.  I have preserved all of the existing links, in the new ==External links== section, so no information should be lost.  --Lexor|Talk 11:27, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I thought artists such as Dune are happy hardcore. There really is no info about the most popular hh artists here, just the early ones are mentioned. Also the into rays that it "was at its peak between 1994 and 1997", but the article then goes "In this course of time 1995–1997 the music was still evolving."


 * I am a big fan of artists such as Dune, Bl&uuml;mchen, Das Modul, Marusha, Westbam, who are the majority of Germany's contributions to Happy Hardcore. To be fair, the German and Dutch influences were more "pop" in their native countries than "underground" and it could easily be argued that as such they do not deserve inclusion with the rest of what could be considered an underground rave culture. However as I am a fan of these artists, they will eventually be included at some future date, at the moment however this is an incomplete US/UK Centric history, best to fill in the gaps with that before trying to pull the article in another direction. Alkivar 00:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Confusing?
"Some producers (Luna-C, Slipmatt, Red Alert & Mike Slammer, Brisk, DJ Vibes, Wishdokta, etc.), however, were simply not having this. They were beginning to make a few minor changes. There were now polyrhythmic breakbeats, half-speed dub-bass and no 4/4 kick drum (which attracted many black ravers, who promptly introduced MCs into the scene)."

This looks like the producers mentioned were taking hardcore further in the breakbeat direction in response to the commercial cheese, yet, these are happy hardcore producers. Perhaps this should read:

"There were now polyrhythmic breakbeats, half-speed dub-bass and no 4/4 kick drum (which attracted many black ravers, who promptly introduced MCs into the scene). Some producers (Luna-C, Slipmatt, Red Alert & Mike Slammer, Brisk, DJ Vibes, Wishdokta, etc.), however, were simply not having this push further into the breakbeat direction. They were beginning to make a few minor changes."

I won't edit for now but I may do so soon if no-one has any objections.

--Thedangerouskitchen 11:52, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * your proposed edit goes against how the music evolved timeline wise IMO. you will notice at the time (Pre SMD #1 - early 1993) most of the named producers were STRICTLY breakbeat. it was not until around the time Slipmatt released SMD #1 that these folks began to bring back the 4/4 (which began late 93 - early 94), sometimes including it in the same track! (most kniteforce stuff from 93-94) I am open to debate on this but i'm pretty sure if you do the research you'll find i'm right. basically timeline follows:
 * 91 - 93 -- bouncy 4/4 sped up "rave" tracks like Sesame's Treet etc...
 * Late 93 - Late 94 -- bouncy & breakbeat stuff but less chipmonky tracks like SMD #1, Green Eggs and... etc..
 * Early 95 - Late 98 -- almost exclusively 4/4 with pianos the anthem era tracks like Here I Am, Heart of Gold, Eyeopener etc...
 * Early 99 - Now -- emergence of a trancier UK sound, emergence of Freeform, reemergence of breakbeat happy hardcore
 * Alkivar 23:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarifying that, I wasn't really aware of the scene at the time as I wasn't old enough. The article is much better now. --Thedangerouskitchen 03:15, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Glad i could sort things out for you. Its still confusing and convoluted, but its the closest i can get explanation wise. you also need to realize that i refer to the MAJORITY of the stuff out at a time. there will always be those certain artists who buck trends (Vibes / Luna-C / etc...) but this should help :) Alkivar 03:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Massive overhaul required for 2006
This article needs a major overhaul. It is in parts a total and complete mess.

As you can read below from the talk - or the foreign articles on Wiki on this subject - there is much differences of what happy hardcore is across the world. Basically, it is all different - it is needing to be a general page that explains all these different definitions.


 * "I thought artists such as Dune are happy hardcore. Also the into rays that it "was at its peak between 1994 and 1997", but the article then goes "In this course of time 1995–1997 the music was still evolving."


 * "I am a big fan of artists such as Dune, Blümchen, Das Modul, Marusha, Westbam, who are the majority of Germany's contributions to Happy Hardcore. at the moment however this is an incomplete US/UK Centric history"

Whilst that is likely correct in their country - from the UK - it is something totally else and was simply never played in the UK rave scene ever. That's not to say that the German stuff should not be included - it needs to be. This article needs to be far more general. It's getting to a stage that happy hardcore is a term - much like hardcore is - rather than an actual style.

I've started extracting all details regarding the English style into 4-beat. This is its alternative name - there is no difference. It also stops this muddle. A lot of these things listed currently in the links like Blumchen, Noahphex and White Russian - have nothing to do with 4-beat. I doubt they even know what it is.


 * The scene was now set for the genre's merge with bouncy techno and 4-beat.

Happy hardcore (from a UK point only, of what happy hardcore means) could not merge with 4-beat as it is the exact same thing.


 * It was this merging of trance influences with hardcore that caused the birth of a new genre Freeform Hardcore. Also around this time the UK Happy Hardcore had started taking influences from the mainstream trance tunes heard virtually everywhere. While this move attracted new listeners it also began to alienate some of its long time producers, many of which switched to producing Hard house or simply retired.

This is correct but that only pertains to the UK side only. Happy hardcore is an international term with different meanings across the world. What Blumchen was doing in Germany has nothing to do with this.


 * Freeform also created its own network of DJs and producers most noticeably CLSM, Sharkey, AMS, Kevin Energy, and lesser knowns such as Tilzs, AC Slater, Sunrize, Daywalker, Oli G, White Russian, Brak, Bounce and Dodgee.

Really none of these DJs should ever be listed - for the most part they are only playing music. Only the most important *producers* need to be listed. Also freeform has nothing to do with this article and should not be mentioned here in any great length.


 * Hardcore also received its own special in 2004 on BBC Radio 1 entitled John Peel Is Not Enough named after a CLSM track of the same name.

This is correct but should not be listed here, but rather in UK Hardcore article. Happy hardcore is no longer a term used in the UK as that breakbeat style (AKA 4-beat) had long since ceased due to the death of the scene around 1997/8 as mentioned in the current article here. > "Around 1997 various UK rave culture publications started announcing the largely mistaken "death" of Hardcore, but it had instead just gone back to its underground roots."


 * Link: Artists and producers - Blumchen, Entropy, Venom, Noahphex, Spree, Cloudskipper, Matt Positive, CLSM, AMS, Tilzs, AC Slater, Sunrize, Daywalker, DJ Brak, Oli G, White Russian, Alkivar, DJ CandyKid, DUNE

Now for the most part - these links have *nothing* to do with the articles and must be removed - it is mostly SPAM. It looks most are using this to link to home pages to get DJ bookings. If it continues to be added - this will become a protected page where no edits can be done.

In the mean time, if unsure head over to the forum at [www.ush.net] forum and ask there as they are far more clued up on this stuff and there is much good information. --Revolt 14:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * these artists did not add their own links. I added them, by that rationale the only "spam" link is my own.
 * threatening protection is not tolerated, you are not an administrator and can therefore not even follow up on your threat.
 * as for USH.net I and several of those "spam" artists are regular contributors over there...
 * this history is accurate, if poorly worded... I will get around to a copyedit at some point in the near future.
 * In the meantime please remain civil and do not threaten protection.  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 05:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes people like CLSM and Oli G and others are artists and likely merit an inclusion. If it's on about them as Freeform as it already says...

Freeform also created its own network of DJs and producers most noticeably CLSM, Sharkey, AMS, Kevin Energy, and lesser knowns such as Tilzs, AC Slater, Sunrize, Daywalker, Oli G, White Russian, Brak, Bounce and Dodgee.

...then it should not be mentioned here in great detail but rather contained in the Freeform article - as I already stated - no one disputes their inclusion if they have made a significant musical contribution to the style in the article. Why is the details being included here - this is what I mean!

this history is accurate

No where in this history does it mention DJ Seduction, Sy, Dougal and others - the most prolific and influencial artists of this movement - and what they did musically (I refer to the origins - not 21st century). It doesn't even touch on that. Look at this too WP:MUSIC. The like of Seduction covers that. Just chucking in the text "DJ Seducion" in a line means nothing - who was he - what did he do - why is he being included?

Rather we've got things like DJ Bounce linking to a page on here about velocity and AC Slater a page on the TV show Saved By The Bell! This is correct?

Do they have sufficient Importance to be included in Wikipedia? I do not dispute this but remeber that the main text in the article refers only to the breakbeat style of music confined to the England rave scene - were they even around then of 1994?

''By late 1994, happy hardcore had broken away from Jungle... It was rejected by the dance mainstream and had its own media and pirate radio. Other US DJs would follow in the next few years Entropy, Venom, Phil Free Art, Matt Positive...''

Matt Positive's homepage lists a load of gigs starting at 1999. I don't see the relationship here with 1994? Also why did it break away from Jungle - where is the source? Phil Free Art do this? I'm not enquiring to the answers - but rather putting all what is wrong with the article.

There is just so much more.--Revolt 18:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

''this history is accurate, if poorly worded... I will get around to a copyedit at some point in the near future.''

To understand what I'm getting at - as this business with the DJ links I'm not even interested in - check this recent article. There is some good points mixed in - I've taken the best bits.

http://www.ush.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=155812&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


 * i) I think it is a general consensus that the term 'Happy Hardcore' relates mostly to the 96 - 99 era. Especially by people outside the scene. You and I know that the term 'Happy' was coined long before that, but most people who have never been into the scene don't. So they instantly associate the term with the same music of 7 years ago which it is not. 


 * ii) Certainly, I know for a fact that the Dutch consider [their own] stuff happy hardcore. They wouldn't call it gabba. It's Dutch happy hardcore - which being Dutch may be similar in style to gabba, but it aint gabba. Plus the fact remains that there was shitloads of stuff like Jieeehaaa (in fact that whole period of Dutch stuff is heavily UK influenced - first by Scottish [bouncy techno] stuff, but also with English sounds) which was undeniably happy hardcore or similar bouncy stuff, that was still hard.


 * iii) You are never going to convince me that any of the mid 90's Dutch techno is Happy Hardcore. Even tracks like 'Wonderful Days' and 'My Little Fantasy' still have a distinct European sound. They are not like the Happy Hardcore I was buying at the time like the stuff on Homegrown, Kniteforce, Corrosive, Impact etc... 


 * v) Surely you can accept that there might be different styles of happy hardcore.


 * vi) to me happy hardcore will always be the classic stuff from '96 time

The article on here needs to be broken down IMO. It has different meanings across the world and these meanings have since changed and as such no longer reflect their origins.

The English breakbeat stuff decribed here is only one type of "Happy Hardcore" - it is not the sole type. The English stuff (AKA 4-beat - it's alternative name) is from the breakbeat hardcore side. That English breakbeat style soon ceased by 1996 (as written in the history in this article on here).

Then there's the Dutch who also refer to their stuff as "Happy Hardcore" but is something different to the above. The Dutch stuff was influenced by Bouncy Techno and later a bit of 4-beat around 1995 - not breakbeat hardcore. This is why the current article on Wikipedia says "This genre of music is closely related to the typically Dutch genre of Gabba."

That is not something that the English breakbeat stuff can claim to be - only the Dutch stuff can - there's no gabber sounds in this English stuff, hence why no where in the "development of happy hardcore" section does it mention gabber.

Then there's the more general opinion that "Happy Hardcore" is the stuff about woman vocal anthems, signing and cover verision - the stuff of the late 1990s. This is mentioned in the very first paragraph with "female vocals, and saccharine lyrics". It attracted a much younger audience and was more commercial and widespread.

Again, this is not something the English breakbeat stuff (or the Dutch stuff) can really claim to be. There is little stuff with vocals or lyrics back then - it was mainly just stuff with the usual rave samples sampled from other things.

It may well be one the most complicated articles to write. Your thoughts? --Revolt 14:17, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Genre Question
well then I have a question. What genre is Special D? He sounds like happy hardcore to me but some may disagree. So does anyone know what sort of genre his mixes are? weems 16:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Special D music is too slow to be hardcore/hhc. I don't know of an official name for his genre, but i've seen it coined before as 'hands up hard-trance' on party flyers. -- Happy2BKandie

It struck me as very strange that the ID&T albums Happy Hardcore 1-9 isn't mention in the article! That is how I define Happy Hardcore. What about f.e. Critical Mass, Rob Gee and 4 Tune Fairytales? - OneUp
 * Rob Gee is not Hardcore... Rob Gee is Gabber (and I know him very very well having performed with him at least 5 times.) Critical Mass would also be termed Gabber... 4 Tune Fairytales = Happy Gabber/Bouncy Techno... once again categorized improperly as "hardcore".  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 01:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

First wave / second wave etc
We could categorise the different stages of what is thought of as 'HH'. For me, HH means Die Hard, Vibealite, Helter Skelter etc and the music played there in the early nineties. There can be no denying, however, that it means different things to different people - just search the internet for what Americans think constitutes HH. Good music, but not what HH originally signified and totally lacking in the whole sweaty, happy, skimpy, whistles 'n' horns, gurning, my new best mate atmosphere of 'proper' HH. As well as a fan of proper HH, I also like a bit of ska. Ska is often categorised as first wave / second wave (two tone) / nu wave or whatever. Maybe a general cover-all article on the HH genre as a whole would be better here, with sub-articles on the different parts?

Cod 23:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

What you seem to be describing is closer to Toytown or Oldskool Rave than Happy Hardcore; or possibly the transition from those genres into Happy Hardcore (as shown on Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music 2.5 they are closely related). 66.212.222.254 (talk) 21:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

There have been huge disputes as to the definition of Happy Hardcore. Maybe we need to split up the page into the different perspectives from around the world. Triangle e 12:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * More common Wikipedian style would be to devote a section to defining the term Happy Hardcore, and leave plenty of room to explain the different "versions" of it that are known around the world. I don't think there needs to be sub-articles on each sub-genre ... hell it's hard enough to handle one article. Just a section on each major sub and maybe one more for more general definitions, then a few examples (no lists) for each and that should keep the article neat enough. freshgavin  ΓΛĿЌ  10:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hm....
I was almost surprised at the lack of mention related to the subculture of ravers that follow the scene. On almost every other genre of electronic music I looked up, I discovered most of them relate a specific style to the music, especially Gabber. In my experience with rave culture ( which mind you, comes from attending only about 7 raves.) I've discovered that the ever cheery CandyKid is a strong believer in Happy Hardcore. The melodic ideas of Happy Hardcore almost appear to be specifically made for the more obnoxious raver ( and I mean no offense by that statement.) Where as Darkcore may appeal to Graver's because of it's devious and shadowy aura, Happy Hardcore most certainly arouses a candyraver to even occasionally sing along with lyrics they're farmilar with. I tend to notice a more lighthearted feeling come across a crowd of ravers in general, when the peppy music fills the room. But you have to at least attribute the music to candykids, purely because of how they both can be assaulting to your calm, and brisk to make you cheerfull, and smiley. I also noticed a lack of giving notice to the way vocals are often synthesized in Happy Hardcore. There was no mention of the " sucking helium from a balloon" tone that most vocals take on. Now that is pretty general, because I have heard Happy Hardcore without said 'accapellas', but it's still a characteristic of the entire idea of the music. I felt that the article written was sufficient, but only just. It gives no insight to the actual idealism of the music's intentions and affect on the masses of over-enthused listeners. There was also no mention of the fued between a Rotterdamn Gabber, and Happy Hardcore. I have always noticed that Hardstyle has a good laugh when Happy Hardcore is mentioned. But was alerted when hearing the song " Happy is voorr homos" by Neophyte, which blatently ( and somewhat amusingly) shows the distinct loathing for the style.

- The problem with this is that it varies on an international level. The UK rave scene is vastly different to the US one for example, and I've never experienced "candykids" and "gravers" as you and US ravers often describe. The only two kinds of people that I've experienced in the UK are the confident, up-for-anything people who dress up, aren't shy about getting up and dancing on boxes and the like, and the slightly more reserved people who just have a bit of fun with friends. However this is mostly due to self-confidence and such rather than any sort of subculture and everyone gets along. There is no divide there.

Marusha
I've just seen Maruscha Gleiss in the list of hhc DJs/producers. She's nice but a considerable part of her works is not fast enough and almost everything can't be thought to be a hhc. Can anyone also sort the list by the place of origin? :-)

Male or female vocals
If their are vocals of course theyre going to be male or female.

their arent many other genders.

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Cite stuff!
This article doesn't have a SINGLE citation. This is unacceptable, because without any, every claim on the article could be original research (for all we know). It's not exactly an unknown subject, so it shouldn't be too hard to find good sources to back it up. FironDraak (talk) 11:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am looking forward to you adding the first citation. I try to improve the German article about Happy Hardcore and found it difficult to find a single good source.
 * --92.105.109.24 (talk) 22:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC) Greetz Daniel

Little recommend
I recommend that you should view the Spanish version of this article: Happy hardcore. It's interesting... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.126.91.212 (talk) 09:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

HTID
HTID? I sthat Hardcore Til I Die ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.96.20 (talk) 15:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes
 * --92.105.109.24 (talk) 05:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC) G Daniel

Nightcore?
Who put that in the subgenres? That's not a genre it's a so-called happy hardcore group who speeds up other artists dance music and claims it as their own. 70.95.181.128 (talk) 23:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I know this is old, but a point needs to be made clear for future readers: The actual group Nightcore makes original music, the sped up "remixes" aren't from them. Many other people do them and call them Nightcore remixes. 'Tis quite annoying and makes the actual group look bad. 173.74.4.247 (talk) 05:24, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Early to Mid 1990s Happy Hardcore
I am looking for some early 1990s as well as mid-1990s happy hardcore songs. Can you please give me some examples of happy hardcore songs from both the early 1990s and the mid-1990s? I would appreciate your help if any of you could do help. BulsaraAndDeacon (talk) 14:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Justin Time - Sweet in Pocket (Force and Evolution Mix).. mid '90s (1994 I think?). Good "transitionary" song, imo. ~anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.83.53 (talk) 22:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Deleted
The following sections are removed as unreferenced. Saved here to help writing the article in correct, referenced way, abiding WP:CITE. - Altenmann >t 18:47, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

History
Happy Hardcore grew out of the early 1990s rave scene as the music became faster and adapted 'fairground' style and breaking away from Jungle which was built around heavy breakbeats & basslines. Some artists started to take the Jungle sound further and turned their back on the happier sounds which had been blamed for the 'commercialism' of the scene which would see the scene split into two different styles.

It is often argued which was the first 'Happy Hardcore' track but it is often stated that DJ Slipmatt's SMD#1 being thought of as one of the first attempts at a Happy tune which although being breakbeat had a mixture of piano and techno stabs. A number of artists such as Slipmatt, DJ Vibes and Wishdokta, Force & Evolution & Billy 'Daniel' Bunter started to follow this formula and thus by 1994 the scene broke in two, Happy Hardcore & Jungle (later becoming Drum and bass).

In the UK, happy hardcore was at its peak between 1994 and 1997. The London pirate radio station Dream FM was instrumental during this period in both the development and support of the scene. For a while, the station also produced a monthly high-street music magazine dedicated to the music. By this time there was little breakbeat left although there were a number of varieties in style. In 1995, a number of German and Dutch artists started to put out a more vocal cenetred commercial sounding type of Hardcore which became a big hit in the UK & not too dissimilar to the early 90s Eurodance. In The Netherlands, Gabber had grown out of Rotterdam around 1992 and was becoming harder by the mid 90s although a happier sound had also been put out also known as 'Happy Gabber'. Scottish Hardcore, usually known as Bouncy Techno, had a big impact on both the English Breakbeat & Dutch Gabber scenes which led to Dutch artists producing a number of happier tracks & English artists moving away from breakbeat towards a more kickdrum centred, harder yet still bouncy sound. In 1996, it was suggested these two styles had merged although Bouncy Techno had different origins, by the late '90s the style had given way to Happy Hardcore or Gabber which would take a darker route by the end of the decade. By the late '90s, Happy Hardcore was being produced in a number of countries, mostly the United Kingdom and the Netherlands (where although there was a more commercial aspect, there were often many harder releases), Australia, United States, Canada and Germany. A number of compilations also started to come out including the German Happy Rave series, the highly acclaimed Bonkers Series which started in July 1996 & continued through the late '90s and revived in the 2000s, and the Happy 2B Hardcore series, also started by Canadian DJAnabolic Frolic in the late '90s and revived in the 2000s. Anabolic Frolic includes many Happy Hardcore classics including hits such as "Break of Dawn" by Bang!, "Eye Opener" by Brisk/Trixxy, "Elysium" by Scott Brown (see music clip). Anabolic Frolic conducted many Happy Hardcore raves entitled Hullabaloo in Toronto, Canado.

Late 1990s – present
Although a number of Happy Hardcore artists, producers, and record labels left Happy Hardcore for other genres of music, Happy Hardcore had a moderate period of growth and popularity from 1998–2001.

Popularity started to drop later in the 90s, and by 2000 the rave scene was considered 'dead' by many people. In the more recent past happy hardcore has made a large re-emergence into the mainstream, more specifically it has received coverage in Mixmag. It has spawned various new record labels in the United States, Canada, the UK, and Japan and continues to grow in popularity. In 2002, the compilation series Bonkers was relaunched after a three-year hiatus and have proved to be successful, releasing eight compilations between 2002 and 2005. The 21st century sound of the genre is notable by the lack of the bouncy synths and piano lines that were trademarks of the genre in the 90s. The genre now has a more euphoric trance feel to it not too dissimilar to the sound of the late 90s trance that was popular in Ibiza at the time, albeit at a higher tempo. The music now has more ties between mainstream dance music and genres such as 'Bouncy House' than the original rave music that it grew out of. In recent years some artists have taken an Electro House/ Bassline feel toward Hardcore which is seeing it steadily move away from the Trance sound which is fast becoming dated.

2001–2003 saw a revival of a more Trance oriented sound. New clubs (In the UK) and DJs including the famous HTID, and later the BBC featured, the new sound. Most was really made within the bedrooms and studios of 2000–2001's DJs and producers.

During the revival, the original sounds of Happy Hardcore were somewhat lessened, as some of the music had transformed to be strongly Trance-influenced music under the name of Hard Trance. By mid 2003 however there were elements of Happy Hardcore returning into the genre & remixes of older tunes in the new style & even some 'Old Skool' Style tunes. New genres such as Freeform & Hardcore Breaks broke off the mainstream leading to even more new styles of Hardcore. A large number of compilations have emerged such as the return of Bonkers (as of 2009, reached its 17th installment). The exact definition of the new-born genre of UK Hardcore from Happy Hardcore, is best described under the Clubland series which includes the Clubland X-Treme Hardcore (which was an off shoot to the already established Clubland series which was originally based on commercial dance & club music), Hardcore Heaven (another return series), Hardcore Nation, Hardcore Adrenaline, True Hardcore & Hardcore Underground to name a few. A number of Old Skool style compilations have also come out in recent years featuring mixes of classics from the 1990s which has also brought a number of younger people into older style of Hardcore & in some ways, old tunes are as popular now as they were during their heyday. A variety of compilations have arised under the UK Hardcore genre, a genre very similar, or one could say a new genre born from Happy Hardcore, that is quite similar to Happy Hardcore, this would include, The Helter Skelter CD series has seen a number of Old Skool mixes as well as Hardcore Breaks mixes of new versions of old tunes and old style mixes of other well-known tunes. Best of Bonkers from 2007 wasn't actually just the best tracks on Bonkers but had a number of classic tracks that even predated the first Bonkers!

Happy Hardcore has not only been influenced by Trance however. More recently some Happy Hardcore has grown more similar to Hardstyle with its harder stompy sound. In other countries besides the US and UK there have been many new Happy Hardcore anthems and artists coming out after 2002.

Places to look for citations:
Can't be arsed to do it now, but I might if I find a bit of free time.

http://www.happyhardcore.com/ has artist info

I also know the hullaballoo rave has its own website that used to be moderated by Anabolic Frolic, which could be used to verify some of the facts about the north american hardcore movement. A documentary film was even released about Hullaballoo, which could give an accurate historical account of the north american happy hardcore movement. Just a couple suggestions if someone gets to it before me. It does not make sense for this article to be deleted, as happy hardcore is (in the form of a large amount of UK Hardcore) and was a popular genre in the dance music scene that has had a huge impact on the evolution of the hardcore music genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.165.105 (talk) 03:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was not moved per unanimous consensus.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Happy hardcore → happycore — Procedural move request. This article was moved to "happycore"; I moved it back per WP:BRD and WP:V because the article's sources support "happy hardcore" as the genre's name. I'm listing the article at WP:RM so interested parties and those with specialist knowledge can determine the article's appropriate name. --Muchness (talk) 22:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I favor keeping the article at "happy hardcore" unless reliable sources can be found to establish that "happycore" is currently the preferred term for this genre. --Muchness (talk) 22:44, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep as Happy hardcore. AFAIK, happy hardcore is the most popular name both in sources and with the general public Captain   panda  22:53, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Happy Hardcore's supergenre
The lead-in to the article suggests happy hardcore is a subgenre of breakbeat hardcore, which is not supported by either the cited source for the statement or the corresponding wikipedia articles. Hardcore techno is the generalized supergenre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Se7ens (talk • contribs) 22:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The proposal is to merge UK hardcore into this article. That article indicates that it is just the UK version of this sub-genre and has been tagged for sources needed for over five years, so has little indication of individual notability. I suggest bringing a shorter and reliably sourced version here as a sub-section.--  SabreBD  (talk) 20:15, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I just did a search to see how notable UK hardcore is as a genre. I didn't find much of use in Google News except for mentions, but I did find this in Google Books. An entire book on the subject does go a long way toward establishing notability. There's also some coverage here, here, and here. Not to mention in a number of other books. It seems to be a rather established, written-about genre of music. The article definitely needs work though, maybe even stubification with reliable sources tacked on. Silver  seren C 09:24, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Good work. At this moment, it is more a question of how much we can establish on the genre from reliable sources than whether it is notable. I have no doubt that it is as real as any genre and a likely search. If there is not much that suggests to me that it is better as a subsection of this article. If there is a lot it would be much better to keep the separate article (and probably summarise it here). It is a pity there is not access to the first book on google books as that would have been really useful. I have the Allmusic encyclopaedia on order and there may be more references in there (unfortunately it is ten years out of date).--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll just point out that the book (Trapped in a Scene: UK Hardcore 1985-1989) is about punk music, and not the electronic dance music style. /Jiiimooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 21:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * @SabreBD The problem when digging around is different locality usage. Something like hardcore can mean many things so has a knock-on here. In UK the happy hardcore term is no longer used as that type of music is considered dead. People use UK Hardcore as considered something else. Outside of UK, the happy term still continues; used more generally, rather than referring to a specific single type of sound. It can also mean something entirely different.


 * For instance, the Dutch happy article is on about something different to the English article. They go on about the Dutch artists like Paul Elstak. That came from something else. The Dutch article is however not incorrect. Under the "Dutch language" definition of the term, it is correct. Likewise with Spanish makina. In UK-speak, it is seen as a specific sound; a sound from a certain time-frame that corresponds to when people first became aware of it. But for the Spanish, this is not the case.


 * In UK-speak/perspective, Reynolds states happy is breakbeat (came from jungle) from south of England. The definition is very narrow, clear and specific. This can be created and fully referenced. But the page will be changed due to i) it being 2013 and not 1993, ii) different locality over the term outside the UK. ie. to them it represents something different. This is why the happy page currently is the way it is and always a problem.


 * I believe one way to take this forward is to make this page basic and general, which then directs people to other specific articles such as happy breakbeat, and so on. Revolt (talk) 12:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I believe that we should be using more recent materials for reference in defining the genres as well, since they have evolved significantly since the 1990's. They're not irrelevant, but only using reference from a single period in time will warp the article itself.


 * @Revolt Given your explanation of locality usage, it would be more cohesive to refer to the genres together as either "Hardcore" or "UK/Happy Hardcore". This seems to be the common technique in the scene itself for defining whatever isn't locally defined as either Happy or UK.


 * If we think on a global scale, we can still define the difference as such;
 * "Happy Hardcore is quintessentially UK Hardcore in a Major Key."


 * i.e. Artists who identify as one will frequently produce the other, given the right mood. DJ S3RL is a strong example of this, identifying as Happy Hardcore, but producing a significant number of harder tracks. On his set "Keeps on Presenting", he mixes UK styles in with Happy Hardcore, often creating hybrid tracks, where the intro/verse is harder than the chorus. Using the last 5 tracks as examples;
 * 18 - Let U Go (Happy); 19 - Say My Name Bitch (hybrid); 20 - Good Night (Happy); 21 - Can't Bring Me Down (UK); 22 - Snow White Line (hybrid)
 * This being said, people in the scene itself have just been recently referring to the genres collectively as "Hardcore". They call their preferred style by name, but refer to anything else as Hardcore.


 * JAKAZiD, prominently known for UK Hardcore, released his "Maximum Sass EP" on Soundcloud, tagging each of his tracks as Hardcore, instead of his usual UK Hardcore.
 * DJ Gammer did the same thing with Float Away. He tagged this as "Hardcore", but continues to tag harder tracks (like his remix of Hero) as "UK Hardcore".
 * Luna-C produced an article in which they refer to UK Hardcore and Happy Hardcore scenes together, as "The Hardcore Scene". They see no significant gap between the two, listing UK Hardcore artists together with Happy Hardcore artists under heading 2. They do appear to favor Happy Hardcore, but this contributes to the regional-phrases claim.


 * I believe the approach is to merge the articles, renaming as "UK/Happy Hardcore". UK Hardcore artists are already listed on the Happy Hardcore page, and UK Hardcore already has Happy Hardcore listed as a sub-genre. If we merge, it would improve the coherency of the pages by limiting redundancy. --Isotera (talk) 8:32, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Revising the Happy Hardcore Article
I'm proposing here a few changes to this article and how this is written in future.

Please do not add any more examples of 'notable artists' or 'famous examples include...' alone unless you feel it is absolutely necessary. Moving the old list to its own category is good, but I'm proposing removal of the words 'notable' or 'famous' for this category. Happy Hardcore is a small genre and this article has been abused for self-promotion numerous times which in my opinion is bordering on vandalism.

Please maintain a consistent balance of events in regards to the past, present and future of Happy Hardcore. A few examples:

"2011, however, has seen the closure of a number of labels, such as the veteran Freeform label; Nu Energy Collective, coupled with the end of the infamous Freeformation events. Kevin Energy and DJ Sharkey also announced their retirements"

I feel this is too year-specific and is not consistent with the rest of the history section. Kevin Energy and DJ Sharkey have both returned a number of times since then and the cancellation of a non-happy hardcore event wasn't a landmark in Happy Hardcore's history as a culture or as a genre. I feel it would be nice if Freeform could have its own article, it doesn't need more than a small paragraph in Happy Hardcore.

"2009 saw DJ Kutski land his own show on Radio 1. Along with various other harder styles, UK hardcore receives much air time and the show continues to grow from strength to strength."

With no disrespect, this show was actually shifted to a less important timeslot a few years ago and I would disagree that UK Hardcore 'receives much air time'. The show is marginally related to the genre and has not added much to Happy Hardcore as a genre in the same way that Jungle's influence on Happy Hardcore has.

In general, I would say be careful when making edits to anything pertaining to the 'future' or 'present' of Happy Hardcore. Kutski's Radio 1 show may have seemed important in 2009 but has not done anything wikipedia-worthy for Happy Hardcore when we look back from a few years. I would say at this point it may be worth not adding anything to the 'present' of Happy Hardcore and instead waiting a few years to view the impact of these things before writing them into the genre's history.

Avoid subjective opinion

There are far too many examples of subjective opinions on this article, many with no relevance at all.

"It is known that the younger generation of ravers are enjoying the hardcore music scene and will continue to progress and become much more mainstream than when it originally came from clubs."

Irrelevant, subjective and not written in a 'wikified' way.

"While the genre remains very much an underground style of music, its receiving crucial mainstream air time"

Debatable, irrelevant and badly written.

"upcoming artists such as the highly acclaimed Fracus and Darwin."

Debatable, 'highly acclaimed' implies greater fame and this sentence appears irrelevant, self-promotional and/or misplaced.

Sources

There are virtually no sources in this article and lots of claims thrown around without evidence. If we take the attitude of adding things from a source rather than adding something and trying to find a source for it later, we can greatly improve the quality of this article.

Don't forget about UK Hardcore having its own article, expand it separately away from Happy Hardcore

We don't need much fixation on UK Hardcore in the Happy Hardcore article as a page already exists for it. Something brief about Happy Hardcore evolving into UK Hardcore with a link to UK Hardcore's article is preferable. Also please avoid mentioning UK Hardcore artists such as Squad-E or DJ Gammer on the Happy Hardcore page. Crossovers such as DJ Hixxy or DJ Breeze are fine.

International impact and history

I can cover the UK side of things fairly well but I'm also interested in the impact of Happy Hardcore in the Netherlands and Germany where I understand it was certainly in the eye of the mainstream. If we have any Dutch or German contributors I'd be interested to hear their history and see if we can collaborate on an overseas portion.

Sugarplant (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

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