Talk:Har Mar Superstar

Untitled
Does Har Mar appear in the film clip to "Catch My Disease" by Ben Lee, dancing around in the background?

--Death Cab for Cupid-- He made an appearance in a recent youtube video as cupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.7.108 (talk) 18:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

--Name change?-- Why is this article titled Har Mar Superstar, and not Sean Tillmann? It's primarily about the actual person, not his stage persona. Particularly if Sean Na Na is going to be merged with this article, it seems that it makes more sense to merge them under the performer's actual name, if it's going to contain the information on multiple personas/musical projects. 128.54.249.152 (talk) 07:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)Nemo


 * I agree - it would make more sense to have the main article as "Sean Tillmann", with "Har Mar Superstar" and "Sean Na Na" as redirects. I'll give it a couple of weeks and if nobody objexts, I'll merge and fix the redirects ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 10:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Not sure that I agree. Har Mar Superstar is still the persona/stage name that is the most well known - I doubt anybody could tell you who Sean Tillman is if you asked them. There might be a case for re-writing the opening para though - You wouldn't expect the Marilyn Monroe article to be titled Norma Jean Baker... SupernautRemix (talk) 14:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * As a point of further clarification, his actual birth name is Harold Martin Tillmann. Unfortunately I don’t have a source for this, I only know because he showed me his drivers license at a party around the time he first started using the Har Mar Superstar name. But I’m sure a source can be found.

Links
I've removed the two Amazon links - they add nothing to the article and people are more than capable of finding commercial websites if they want to. I've also removed a recently-added link to a video interview: if anyone wants to transcribe any salient points from it and put them in the article (with a citation) please go ahead, but simply adding external links without referencing them in the body of the article makes the whole page look like a fanzine ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 10:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

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Ron Jeremy?
That can't possibly be serious information that can be cited. 71.55.141.198 (talk) 02:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

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Edit warring
@Kingcutie and @HarMarSuperstarred: Let's please try to resolve the edit warring. I think that the allegations are notable enough for inclusion and should have their own paragraph, not appended to the sobriety & album promotion sentence. (Combining them implies they are related; they don't appear to be.) HarMarSuperstarred, while I broadly agree with your preferred version, please stop edit warring and let's try to resolve this on the talk. Tol (talk &#124; contribs) @ 22:13, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I agree that the allegations are notable enough for their own inclusion and that they should have their own paragraph. HarMarSuperstarred (talk) 22:15, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for discussing, HarMarSuperstarred. I've opened a thread on the edit warring noticeboard. Please don't make any more reverts (see WP:3RR), because even if your version has consensus, repeatedly reverting doesn't look good (unless it's blatant vandalism). Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 22:22, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Due to the edit-warring warning, I do not plan to edit the page, but the phrase "Following anonymous sexual misconduct allegations and community hysteria" might be better as "Following sexual misconduct allegations reported by the Star Tribune, involving three incidents described to the newspaper reporters by at least six people whose identities were withheld by the newspaper". The repeated use of the phrase "anonymous" to characterize the women's accusations is problematic, and could be seen as an attempt to denigrate or downplay their seriousness. It should be pointed out that the newspaper reporters surely know the identities of the women in question, and as stated in the article, are keeping them secret for their privacy. This is common practice when reporting news stories of this nature. It should not be taken as an indication by the newspaper that the allegations are questionable. Also, the claim of "community hysteria" is unsupported and .Mehendri Solon (talk) 03:33, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mehendri Solon: I'm waiting on my edit warring noticeboard report before editing. I think there's consensus against "community hysteria", but I don't want to edit war over it. Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 06:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thank you. Mehendri Solon (talk) 06:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No problem. Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 19:15, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * the wording of "community hysteria" has been edited back in. 2601:441:5180:3760:9D36:AED1:D579:AE42 (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Proposed version
MainroomSHMainroom, Mehendri Solon, HarMarSuperstarred:

Hi all. I've restored some information and changed wording in § Honors and awards and § Personal life. I've done my best to make this (hopefully) a generally acceptable and neutral version. Here are the changes that I have made:


 * 1) I restored the image of his star in § Honors and awards, with the caption: Har Mar Superstar's former star on the outside mural of the Minneapolis nightclub First Avenue   I did not think the allegations should be mentioned in the caption itself, because it may be undue weight, and it's mentioned right next to the image in the text.
 * 2) I restored the paragraphs about the star and the allegations in § Honors and awards, and combined them into one paragraph. Because the focus of this paragraph is on honors and awards, the star is relevant. Similarly, the allegations are relevant, but only because they (probably) caused the star to be painted over. Giving the allegations their own paragraph is probably too much weight, so I gave them a sentence at the end of the paragraph, and noted that the star was painted over. Here's that paragraph: Tillmann was honored with a star on the outside mural of First Avenue, recognizing performers that have played sold-out shows or have otherwise demonstrated a major contribution to the culture at the iconic venue. According to journalist Steve Marsh, receiving a star "might be the most prestigious public honor an artist can receive in Minneapolis." Following the sexual assault allegations against Tillman, Har Mar Superstar's star has been painted over. 
 * 3) In § Personal life, I removed some of the emphasis on the accusers' anonymity and changed "rumors" to "allegations", among a few other wording changes. Here's the paragraph: In March 2021, three women anonymously accused Tillmann of sexual misconduct. He issued a statement addressing the allegations on social media, denying the social media details posted by the first accuser and addressing any others stating, "I am deeply sorry to anyone who feels I've hurt them; what matters here is not my feelings or perspective but to take these statements seriously and respectfully."   The Star Tribune published an additional anonymous accusation in a follow-up article, as well as reports of a brewery and a bar severing business ties as a result of the allegations.   There's still some room for improvement; I don't know what "social media details" are, for one.

Please let me know what you think of these changes. Thanks, Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 19:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * That looks good to me. Thank you. Mehendri Solon (talk) 19:42, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for stepping in on this. MainroomSHMainroom (talk) 20:40, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Further edit-warring on 2022-05-12
For the record, after Kingcutie returned to edit-war (between these edits), and was reverted by Fakescientist8000 and Interstatefive, I reported (permalink) Kingcutie to the edit-warring noticeboard and reverted the edits again. Tol (talk &#124; contribs) @ 22:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Kingcutie's Explanation: I noted why each choice was made for the edits.  There are a number of trolls that are trying to defame Sean at every turn.  I am merely trying to balance that out.  Sexual Assault Allegations?  Can you actually name what was assaultive?  There are no police reports, no court action has been initiated, and all of the accusers that talked to the Star Trib were anonymous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingcutie (talk • contribs) 22:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Now indefinitely blocked (noticeboard permalink, log). Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 23:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

KingCutie/HDClear is the brother of Sean Tillmann AKA Har Mar Superstar
That’s why he continues to edit the page to minimize the sexual assault allegations. You can find him using the KingCutie moniker all over the internet.

2600:1014:B008:3774:9CA1:6BE2:7A8:671C (talk) 10:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

HRO Discussion
Hello, I added the section on the HRO in the sexual misconduct allegations section. I do not want to engage in edit warring but I believe some information has been added that is not accurate or potentially misleading, specifically "but the District Court referee Franklin Reed pointedly acknowledged that Mr. Koffman's calling a restaurant to inform them of Mr. Tillmann-Hauser's presence did cross the line, leading "to an impact upon Mr. Tillmann-Hauser's private, non-professional life."

I believe this is inaccurate because this makes it seem as though this was Franklin Reed's unique writing and not part of the court document already referenced - they even created a new citation instead of re-using the citation that already exists. The addition of the word pointedly appears unnecessary and like it's editorializing. Also the phrase "cross the line" is vague and unclear, while the legal documentation states that this behavior was the closest respondents came to harassment, it did not met the legal standard due to the lack of repeated instances which is needed under the statue.

I would like to help find a resolution in which the information on this page is accurate, concise, and appropriately relevant. 2601:441:5180:3760:9D36:AED1:D579:AE42 (talk) 17:59, 10 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I also just noticed this same editor added language minimizing the allegations such as changing sexual assault allegations to sexual misconduct allegations, claiming 'public hysteria', removing mention of the 7 women who came forward, and putting emphasis on the anonymous nature of allegations without noting that it is common practice for news outlets to keep names of people alleging sexual violence anonymous. Again, I do not want to engage in edit warring but it appears this person has gone back and changed a number of aspects of this entry to minimize allegations and cast doubt on those making allegations. 2601:441:5180:3760:9D36:AED1:D579:AE42 (talk) 18:10, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

This is the same verbiage used in previous edits done by user Kingcutie, the brother of the page's subject, who was previously banned for edit warring and vandalizing this page. HDClear is very obviously a sockpuppet of Kingcutie.

A 3R Warning has been issued with a request to revert the page to it's original state prior to HDClear's edit warring and vandalism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Har_Mar_Superstar&oldid=1206607776 — Preceding unsigned comment added by MainroomSHMainroom (talk • contribs) 17:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks, tried to report this earlier and was told I needed to apologize for making him defensive and that it was reasonable that he would try and make those edits. Blkcateyes (talk) 17:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)