Talk:Haratin

Split proposal
The introductory states that Haratin is an exonym with negative connotations. IMO this article should focus on the term Haratin, with everything else split off into a more neutrally named article or articles. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the POV-title tag due to the same issue. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Split declined and POV tag removed. This topic is covered by reliable sources including Encyclopaedia Britannica under this title. The sentence regarding that the Haratin do not accept the term is not sourced, and if true, is something than can be discussed within the article when appropriate sources have been found.  SilkTork  *YES! 12:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Hartani
The word Hartani, plural form haratine is derived fron Arabic word (Hor Tani) Free a second time or free again, contracted into "Hartani" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.166.98 (talk) 04:00, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

'Historiographic and conceptual problems of North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, and the Haratin' section
Entire section, which goes on for many paragraphs and sounds like a screed, is sourced to exactly one guy "Mohamed, Mohamed Hassan" and exactly two publications: "Africanists and Africans of the Maghrib: casualties of Analogy" and  "Africanists and Africans of the Maghrib II: casualties of secularity". Pretty sure some tags need to be added to get more reliable sources and remove NPOV; but I'm a copy editor and I hate working with Wikipedia tags. I'll do it if noone else does, but someone else should really have a look at that. Thanks. Mercster (talk) 15:31, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:45, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, agreed here as well. And frankly, the section needs substantial work beyond this, if it ought to be kept. The first paragraph is a total non-sequitur; this is a page about an ethnic group, not a soapbox for someone to pontificate about "the current major problem in African studies." The gist of this whole section is that the notion of a bipartite (i.e. sub-Saharan and trans-Saharan) Africa is a colonial construction, which the Haratin problematize. Mohamed argues that the Haratin are indigenous to the Maghreb, but that this inherited colonial paradigm suggests that their origins are south of the Sahara, owing to their complexion. But this topic is already covered, with good sources and more concise writing, in the Etymology and History sections. Is this section worth keeping? Portuni (talk) 05:50, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mercster There's been enough and convincing critical discussion of this paragraph. To make it concise and up to standards, somebody who's read these arguments should quickly shorten it and spare new readers' time. Munfarid1 (talk) 07:06, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Art historical discussion about Haratin
There is an interesting discussion about Haratin in Cynthia Becker's reply to a review of Becker's work Amazigh Arts in Morocco that might be useful for further elaboration in this article: 1) Helene E. Hagan. 2008. “Amazigh Arts in Morocco, Women Shaping Berber Identity Cynthia Becker.” International Journal of Middle East Studies 40 (2): 341–42. doi:10.1017/S0020743808080719. 2) Becker, Cynthia. “A Reply to Helene E. Hagan’s Review of Amazigh Arts in Morocco, Women Shaping Berber Identity (Ijmes 40 [2008]: 341-42).” International Journal of Middle East Studies 40, no. 4 (2008): 725–27. http://www.jstor.org/stable/40206043 Munfarid1 (talk) 08:41, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Broken and Misleading Links
The introductory section features the sentence "The Haratin are both culturally and ethnically distinct from modern sub-Saharan Africans", however the Gast (2000) source states "the African essence has been its own for several millennia" but notes the Haratins had a distinct gene flow. Georges Colin (1971) is a broken link and arguably out of date. Alain Froment is a non-English text: file:///home/chronos/u-e85965ccc0f93c89ea513ef0868dacd3fc373e6b/MyFiles/Downloads/101.FROMENTBellasOursi%20(1).pdf

The sentence should either feature new links or be rephrased to be present a more accurate representation of the sources.WikiUser4020 (talk) 08:10, 20 March 2022 (UTC)