Talk:Hardcore (electronic dance music genre)/Archive 1

Untitled
How about some notable tracks and artists in each of these sub-genres?2toise 13:05, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hardcore techno? shouldn't it be Hardcore tekno
 * No. Salamibears58 (talk) 00:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Article is completely misinformed
Harcore techno is very different to "hardcore" as it was generally known on the UK rave scene. Hardcore was a mixture of breakbeats and techno with a lot piano breaks and cartoon noises around 1991/1992 - it is more closely related to jungle than hardcore techno. It gave birth to the more cheesy happy hardcore. Here is an example of hardcore :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n12IgX3DVA

Whilst hardcore was definately "underground music" it was generally fun to listen and dance to and was entirely hedonistic in its intent and thus couldnt be further removed from the painful industrial Rotterdam gabber scene. Despite this being what most people refer to (who are actually old enough to remember) when they use the word "hardcore" within the context of EDM it is hardly mentioned in this woefully inadequate article. Please go and listen to somne of the "hardcore" compilation albums form 1991 - 1992 listed in discogs to see how badly disingeneous this article is - hardcore had absolutely nothing to do with gabber or Belgian industrial music - that was a later development..
 * I think you are mostly right. The music you are describing ("breakbeats, piano breaks, dub and low frequency basslines and cartoon noises"), retrospectively called oldskool rave hardcore, was called hardcore at this time. Wikipedia has an article about it. I think this information should be in the History section as hardcore has evolved and the oldskool rave hardcore has stopped a long time ago. Morover, it was called hardcore because nobody knew what should be named hardcore. This time was confusing and many things were called hardcore. Ftiercel (talk) 10:03, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

People regularly use to call Happy Hardcore 'hardcore' too, but that doesn't make it entirely accurate. The original blueprint (as stated many times before) can be read in the book 'Energy Flash'... Lords of Acid, Joey Beltram, Cubic 22 were all examples of early hardcore. Much of it came from Belgian New Beat in the late 1980s, and could regularly incorporate (but not exclusively) elements of techno, house music, electronic body music, and synthpop into its format, creating a cold, hard sounding form of dance music. It became something else altogether when breakbeats, house piano sounds, the 'Hoover' sound, and probably a large intake of illegal substances (making faster, harder, more frenetic rhythms a necessity) that it mutated into various sub-sub-genres (e.g. breakbeat hardcore (old skool), gabber, happy hardcore, jungle - the list goes on.

As an example, I would class Lords of Acid's 'Take Control' as hardcore, although it clearly derives from classic New Beat, but would also class anything by Altern-8 and Manix as hardcore - albeit what is known as breakbeat hardcore (old skool). Musically I would say that they are all very similar sounding.

I accept that people regularly call 'breakbeat hardcore' simply hardcore, or old skool hardcore, but that doesn't make it a correct statement. It's simply one of the (admittedly popular) styles of hardcore that eventually created further splinter groups (happy hardcore, jungle) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.248.45 (talk) 14:47, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I've also noted that the 'Gabber' page has now been credited as 'Gabber (early hardcore)', which is, of course, utter nonsense. Gabber is simply one of the styles of hardcore, not the initial blueprint. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.248.45 (talk) 20:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Links an issue
The links section of this page is really bad. None of them have been tweaked to redirect to the right page -eg, 'stormtrooper' and 'orca' lead to articles about the real thing, not the artist name. Really needs fixed but I just don't have time right now. If the active editors of this article don't know how to do this, I refer them to this page:. -Zepheriah 23:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Hardstyle vs. Hardcore
From what I can tell this Wiki article is about the genre Hardcore. But when you search Wiki for Hardstyle you get re-directed to here. Hardstyle should be considered a really hard variant of trance. It's not 'hardcore'. Hardcore is more closely linked to gabber (the hard music that came out of Rotterdam), but it's, well, more serious and harder than gabber. Check out Ishkur's for a better look at the genres. What I think of as 'hardcore' he lists as 'gabber' but then oddly creates a new genre, 'Rotterdam', which he then describes as 'gabber'. Other than that little quirk, I think it helps a lot. Oh and, take some of his descriptions with a grain of salt.
 * Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music -->Chemical Halo 08:18, 2005 Jan 9 (UTC)


 * In addition to making up a proportion of the presented styles, Ishkur is way off in his "history" of music and genre associations - it is not the definite source to reference and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. However you're right, for such an influencing music style (and huge movement in the early 90's), this page is more of a stub and should be made broader both in scale and depth of knowledge. I'm planning to do something about it in the near future, though a "grand" subject like this (almost 20 years of music history and science with cultural references) does require some ahead planning. It seems, though, that no one else is going to do anything about it and I might be the only one with enough knowledge, contacts and interest in here.


 * What comes to hardstyle itself, it is a cross-genre between hardcore and trance, but originally (IMO) seemed to develop from newstyle, which in turn was dutch hardcore developing back towards techno and house influence. If hardstyle itself isn't featured in Wikipedia, this is just as good place to refer to it as would be trance music, Dutch music in general, or electronic music in general. However, you could make a page about hardstyle yourself, if the topic is close to your heart, even if it was just a stub - a style of popular music currently hitting the charts is bound to receive more contributors sooner or later. aeris 11:21, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This was an old comment. I've already removed the re-direct of Hardstyle --> Hardcore techno and created a working stub for Hardstyle. Check it out. And I agree. Ishkur's, of course, is just an unaccredited internet source, but it's still a good place to start for noobs. (I was a noob when I wrote that comment, although at this point, I don't even remember writing it. :P) Thanks.-->Chemical Halo 02:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Hardcore vs Gabber
What is the difference between Hardcore and Gabber music (if there is any)? I think it should be explained in the article... --ha-core 18:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * hehe, i've just spent the last month or so doing research into hardcore dance music and that's something that's been bugging me for the last week or so, and it's a biggie that needs to be sorted out on wikipedia. i have a feeling it's to do with the fact that gabber tends to use/have melody/melodic sounds but i shall go on looking for references and articles on the matter (or poke some friend sin the know) and report back. --MilkMiruku 10:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Gabber is a subgenre to hardcore, just like speedcore, terror, happy hardcore, trancecore etc. /Jiiimbooh 20:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Nay, this is wrong. The music is known, in the Netherlands where it was created, simply as Hardcore. Gabber refers to the subculture and a gabber is a fan of hardcore music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krakaet (talk • contribs) 05:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Gabber IS a subgenre of Hardcore Techno.  But what you said about the word "Gabber is true as well.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salamibears58 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Hardcore Techno
This is a term from germany, used about 1989 for Agrumh... and later for Leather Strip. In the early '90s Hardcore Techno was used for hard style EBM projects and shortly after, the term was used for the distorted techno sound from frankfurt (germany) and later rotterdam etc (netherlands). after this shift of meaning, the early hardcore techno (hard EBM) was renamed to Hardcore Electro. that's not a joke, i can scan the old magazines. --Menorrhea 01:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * hey again :) sure, if you can provide reference to an earlier usage of the term 'hardcore techno' then i'm sure it's worth a mention somewhere on this page --MilkMiruku 10:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Look There. It's from a New Life-Soundmagazine printed in october/november 1989.


 * Could you upload the image again? That is likely to be one of the first uses of the word "Hardcore" within EDM, even before the British used it in a Breakbeat context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.43.48.145 (talk) 12:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

"Hardcore techno"
This page's use of the term "Hardcore Techno" is confusing. Due to unclarity as to the use of the term, I think this page should be renamed "hardcore dance music" and all references to "hardcore techno" removed from this and other pages except in the case that such a genre definitively does exist.

I'm unfamiliar with Gabber and its brethren, and for all I know they did evolve from Techno, but happy hardcore, freeform and trancecore all evolved from breakbeat hardcore, and therefore ultimately have roots in acid house.

Also, happy hardcore, freeform and trancecore do not satisfy "rhythmic use of distorted and atonal industrial-like beats and samples.", and certainly new beat does not have a fast tempo.

The paragraph on production techniques seems like a non sequitir, as much hardcore is not produced this way. Trancecore, as noted, is a lot of the time simply a timestretched trance song. Grievre 17:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the page explains the term as it is used. The term Hardcore dance music isn't used as often as Hardcore Techno and Hardcore techno is often used for what would technically be more appropriate to call Hardcore House (although the term hardcore house is also used). /Jiiimbooh (talk) 13:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you actually specify where and when the term "Hardcore techno" is actually used? As someone how has been a part of the scene across Europe and the various subgenres, it's not a term I can say I've heard "often" used anywhere. The genre is called "Hardcore" by just about everyone. I'm not sure why the EDM genre needs arbitrary terms like "techno" tacked on when the rock one doesn't. It would be much more helpful if both were called Hardcore, with the rock/EDM distinction in brackets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebeneezer Goode (talk • contribs) 22:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * That's because Happy Hardcore, Trancecore and Freeform (Don't really know much about Freeform) aren't really Hardcore. Salamibears58 (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Indeed the term Hardcore Techno is completely false as Hardcore has nothing to do with what is known as techno or any derivate of it, it is a house genre, but pretty much everyone in the world calls it techno. It sound rather unknowledgable though. Many people do not, and shouldn't take this article seriously because of things like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.73.130 (talk) 18:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC) It's truly unfortunate how often people call electronic dance music "techno." Hardcore is neither a derivative nor similar in style to Techno, and should probably be called "hardcore dance" or even just "hard dance". ( User_talk:Lunisneko ) 02:26, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This discussion is entirely curious, and I really recommend taking a detour back to undifferentiated hardcore techno and gabber from the very early 1990s. The reason why it is called "Hardcore techno" is because it is called "Hardcore techno."  The name, in part, developed as the direct antecedents of hardcore techno were techno, rather than house, after the great house:techno stylistic division. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, who calls it Hardcore Techno? It is NOT a common term. It's seemingly one created by those outside the genre trying to classify it, quite ignorantly and clumsily.
 * I agree. Except on Wikipedia, I always heard "Hardcore" and no "Hardcore techno". The Ishkur's guide, which is a reference, says "Hardcore". Ftiercel (talk) 00:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I renamed the article. Ftiercel (talk) 19:04, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry but I completely disagree with renaming the article, as hardcore techno WAS a very well known name for this genre, and actually still remains so, certainly in the UK anyway (especially when trying to separate it from those that prefer the rockier sounds). To say it was 'ignorantly and clumsily' created is an insult. You really need to listen to the origins of it before you make rash statements like that. Belgium is the origin of it, and I suggest that you find some early Belgian hardcore techno before you make such silly statements. "Hardcore" was always a lazy abbreviation anyway... because you have 'hardcore punk' as a subgenre to begin with.

Still, if people want to alter history, as they do on here, then so be it. God help it if some pesky Europeans dare to alter the origins of that 'Detroit-born genre'... techno. ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.103.205 (talk) 00:35, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is not an alteration of the history. We agree a music was named like this 20 years ago and we have mentioned this in the History section. But the history never stop and nowadays, Hardcore is the main term. If you read the article about Puff daddy, the article uses the name Diddy. To satisfy everybody, the Hardcore techno term has been added at the top of the article. Ftiercel (talk) 18:09, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

That's fair enough then. As I certainly know of both terms being in relative common usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.3.102 (talk) 19:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Hardcore vs. Techno
I am confused by the classification of hardcore. The name "hardcore techno" implies that it is a type of techno, but Wikipedia's list of electronic music genres doesn't classify hardcore as a type of techno, but as a separate category of electronic dance music. (In fact, I thought hardcore, trance, and jungle were all sub-genres of techno, but Wikipedia does not classify them that way.) --JHP (talk) 19:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hardcore is a subgenre of Techno that evolved into it's own scene. That's probably why it's classified seperately. Salamibears58 (talk) 02:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Hardcore is most certainly not a subgenre of Techno. Techno is a distinct genre that is completely separate from hardcore, it is neither similar, nor gave birth to hardcore. The use of the term is bizarre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebeneezer Goode (talk • contribs) 22:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I suggest that you read the book 'Energy Flash' or listen to some of the Belgian 'hardcore techno' that sprung up around Antwerp, Brussels and Gent in the late 1980s then. It's called hardcore techno, because that's exactly what it was originally. It obviously took in large influences from house music (acid house), but then again, techno and house cross over with common regularity anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.183.8 (talk) 16:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the best thing to do is to talk about "Hardcore techno" in the History section. That's what I have done. You can proofread what I have written. Ftiercel (talk) 14:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok guys, here's how the story goes and please try correcting me if I'm wrong:- Hardcore is NOT a subgenre of techno music. Techno music is a subgenre of EDM which is based largely around atonal sound, heavy percussion and most importantly, a groove. It originated from Detroit in 1985 and then crossed over to Belgium around 1990. It is separate to other EDM styles. No style incorporating the term 'techno' should be a catch-all term, and unfortunately with hardcore techno, that's exactly what has happened and it still lives on to this day, sadly. 'Hardcore techno' was originally the hardest subgenre of actual techno music up until around late 1992. It could now retrospectively be classed as simply Belgian techno, Euro-techno or old skool 'hardtechno', although the problem is that the term 'hardtechno' was not born back then! Try checking out the track Emphasis by KAA. Straight out of Belgium in 1991 and way before it's time. It's just like hard techno, is it not?! The problem is that the term hardcore was around before things were referred to as 'hard' ie hard house, hard trance, and of course hard techno itself. Hardcore techno created Gabber (basically Dutch hardcore techno at the time, not really hardcore house!) in 1992, and became so hard and fast (what with artists such as 'Euromasters' emerging) that it could no longer be a variant of techno music, so it became put into a separate category of it's own.

Different styles were emerging in the expansion of new electronic music around late 1992 as it was becoming cheaper for more artists to make music of their own. Bouncy techno was born, Doomcore was born, then later on proper Happy Hardcore was born. These styles all became lumped under the 'now-separated-from-techno' hardcore techno category. Also to add to this, the British breakbeat hardcore rave styles which had been emerging since around late 1989 also became lumped under 'hardcore techno', yes they really did! Totally wrong to do this, but infact true, as it was all 'hardcore' music, albeit two different strands. Check out Various - Speed Limit 140 BPM+: The Sounds Of London Hardcore Techno released back in 1993 and you will notice even Jungle orientated tracks in there, before it split off from hardcore and became part of Drum & Bass a year or so later. See, even Jungle was filed under hardcore techno for a short period of time. The main style which literally merged the British and the mainland European style was 'Happy Hardcore' when it merged the happy UK '4-beat' (breakbeat/4x4 combo) style with the distorted kicks of Gabber/bouncy techno heralded from mainland Europe and Scotland around late 1994 and into 1995. This was the vital 'joining piece' if you like! Check out Hardcore Vibes by Dune, as cheesy as it may sound, and maybe you'll see exactly what I mean by this. Nu-style gabber and Trancecore (later renamed Freeform hardcore) came along in the late 90's, also under that same old 'hardcore techno' banner. These styles could literally be more classified as hardcore trance rather than hardcore techno!

Since the turn of the millennium, the term hardcore techno has become less used because it has changed so much, and quite rightly so! It is nothing like original hardcore techno that Mescalinum United released back in 1990 when it was actually techno and before there was anything harder made. This is exactly why people usually refer to it as just 'hardcore'. Infact, the term should quite accurately be called HARDCORE-EDM!! This way, both the old skool British breakbeat hardcore, all the European styles, and pretty much everything else which spawned off those styles could all be under the one banner and everyone would understand it perfectly! Note that often music which cannot be defined as any other hardcore-edm styles are often referred to as just plain hardcore, which is right because there isn't always a separate style to call them. A slow doomcore/darkcore track with a distorted kick, but with happy trance-like synths, what would you call that? Hardcore! A happy hardcore tune which is maybe too fast to be labeled as such, but too slow to be called speedcore. what would you call that? Hardcore! A happy hardcore track sped up to speedcore speed sounding nothing like any other speedcore? It's just hardcore! A gabber track with maybe breakbeats in which just can't be labeled as gabber - again - it's therefore just hardcore!! see a pattern here? Hardcore is therefore a subgenre of itself, used as kind of dumping ground for styles which don't fit into it's other subgenres! It's now HARDCORE-EDM, not really hardcore techno!! It's the harder side of electronic music catering for all styles in a category of it's own, incorporating 4x4 rhythms aswell as breakbeats. Well, I hope maybe I have cleared a few things up. Sorry for waffling on, but thank you for your time in reading my article, C. ;)ChrissyboyH44 (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Happy hardcore
"Happy Hardcore is probably the best known, and best selling variant." Is this really true today? Happy hardcore was most popular in the mid-90s. Jiiimbooh 02:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. A lot of what people are calling "happy hardcore" these days is generally UK Hardcore/4-beat, Freeform and other genres. Even though these are evolutions from the "happy hardcore" sound, even to the point of sharing many of the DJs and artists (which may be where the confusion lies), there is very little "happy hardcore" being produced at all these days. --86.2.119.178 16:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Examples
Someone should list some well known examples of the harder styles (mainly so I can get into it) because terrorcore.pl doesn't really help. XdiabolicalX 17:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Links
i removed two links that i thought were inappropriate. one was blatent spam, and the otherone was to a german language website, and so i assume not usefull for the english wiki. there may be other links that need removing however. Ricecake 15:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please tell whoever that is who keeps adding some site called 'Pounding Beats - The ravers Guide' to the links to stop spamming? 172.202.247.23 19:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh no
UNENCYCLOPEDIC LISTS on a page about Hard Tech? NO NO NO! Seriously, what is UNENCYC. about pages in a Cyber-encyclopedia crafted by people who are into what they're writing about, and willing to share their wealth? Whatever bogus definition of ENCYCLOPEDIC got cooked up by the sub-group who got spooked by Brittannica: why are you people SO worried about image? Why do you want to submit to 19th century ways of doing things? Why the tight ass mockery of people's efforts, huh? It's pretty obvious that we have a RED and BLUE contingents working on this magnum opus -- whyn't you RED folks go hang around where you belong? Twang 08:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Yes, because unending lists of nobody artists is REALLY useful 62.53.29.254 12:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Old comments yes, but it's still a debate. The artists are not nobodies, many of the artists that do not have articles on wikipedia are some of the most famous, innovative and long-lived artists in electronic music. Peoples' fame is not weighed by how long their wikipedia article is. Disciples of Annihilation do not as of today have an article on wikipedia for example, and they are stated as a major influence on a great deal of producers and are so influential they pretty much laid the blueprint for a genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.73.130 (talk) 11:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Most of these are not 'no mark' artists and really should have pages dedicated to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.103.205 (talk) 00:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Nosebleed
This Scottish hardcore club .. which town was it in? Motherwell? maybe Paisley or Hamilton. Cheers — maxrspct  ping me  18:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's Rosyth from what i have gleened from google. -- maxrspct  ping me  13:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Whole article needs amendment
IMHO if this article is intended to be about Hardcore Techno then references to Breakbeat Hardcore (Old Skool, Happy Hardcore, Freeform, etc) should be removed. Hardcore Techno is afterall one of the derivatives of Old Skool Hardcore (alongside Happy Hardcore and D&B) and has the sub-genres of Speedcore, Gabber, etc.

Fluffbomb 17 October 2007

Completely and utterly incorrect. 'Old skool hardcore' (I assume you mean breakbeat hardcore), gabber, happy hardcore and later jungle/drum & bass are all spawned from the original 'hardcore techno' blueprint.

Clean-up
I came here to remove a link to a speedied page and decided, as per the tag, to clean up the section on individual performers by removing all red-line links (links to pages that don't exist). Accounting4Taste: talk 04:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The result was keep separate. -- Debate   木  01:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Breakbeat hardcore is an unsourced article consisting of original research. The article suggests that it is "popularly known as rave music" which suggests it's just another term forsomething else. opinions? -- neon white talk 16:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

its undoubtaully a subgenre, if you don't know it, then you probably don't know enough about hardcore and i'd suggest you leave to people who do--82.18.90.197 (talk) 12:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone can edit any page. Pages are required to provide sources and assert notability. This article does neither. -- neon white talk 13:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No Merger. Hardcore Techno (Hardcore) is a historically relevant sub-genre of techno. There is no clear rationale behind mergering it with a newer sub-genre that is chronologically it's junior. See the Techno page for context. Semitransgenic (talk) 19:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Breakbeat hardcore is well known to those that are familiar with the 'hardcore techno' (yes, I will continue to use that term) styles of music. A combination of abrasive techno and house music sounds with breakbeats (not jungle/drum & bass... they came later on)... stuff like Altern-8, Rhythm Section, Acen, some Shades of Rhythm, early stuff by the Prodigy, Shut Up and Dance, Ratpack, Smart E's, 2 Bad Mice...

Rave music is not a genre. It just means music played at a rave event. Largely acid house and hardcore forms of techno.

Soft of, yes. classic rave is an alternative name for Breakbeat Hardcore aka Old Skool Hardcore, and rave music describes hardcore EDM styles in general. I'm not overly keen on calling it Breakbeat Hardcore and prefer just calling it Old Skool beacause many of the early tracks (circa late 1989-early 1991) contained 4X4 kickdrums with very few breakbeats.ChrissyboyH44 (talk) 18:09, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Frenchcore is being considered for deletion
Just a FYI in case anyone wants to participate in the debate. /Jiiimbooh (talk) 21:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

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Noisecore
Why, oh why, does noisecore redirect here? Noisecore is a genre fusing Noise music and punk / hardcore punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.220.224 (talk) 14:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Correct. The hardcore house sub-genre is generally spelled with a Z, as in Noizecore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.73.130 (talk) 11:47, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

The Noizecore style is just generally referred to nowadays as Industrial Hardcore.ChrissyboyH44 (talk) 13:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Ishkur?
What is the rationale for this being considered a reliable source? If there is one that I'm just not getting, please ignore me, but it looks like a non-commercial site, so would fall under the realms of WP:SPS. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Hardtek?
no mention of hardtek? a European style of hardcore and techno around 180bpm+ very little melody. More focused on the rhythm noises. and played at Teknivals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.22.252 (talk) 17:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetekno try reading this link. Hardtek originally called Tekno is neither Hardcore, nor techno, but rather techno music played at very fast Hardcore BPM's (160bpm+ actually), but generally without the distorted kicks. There is Tribe aswell which is very closely connected to Hardtek, but has more of a galloping sound to it, a bit like sped-up Jungle-Techno. It's in a scene of it's own and is a style of music which has always been very popular at French and Czech Teknivals, as you say. Hardfloor (like sped-up early Hardstyle), Frenchcore (like even faster and more distorted industrial Hardfloor) and Tribecore (hybrid of Tribe and Hardfloor/Hardcore - sort of!) evolved from the Freetekno scene. A little confusing, but that seems to be the case.ChrissyboyH44 (talk) 13:42, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

INFO TO USE HERE, about SUB-GENRES
noisecore - how it can be equal to industrial hXc??? noisecore = noisy breakcore, by some features it is seemingly very close to speed/terrorcore. but the beat is broken here. examples : LKS 666 - Lorcscyric, Venetian Snares + Speedranch - Molly's Reach Around,Meat Marionette - Shotgun

DOOMCORE - is not equal to darkcore. doomcore is more "meditative" and less aggressive hardcore stuff, like The Outside Agency - Submerger (Dr. Strange Remix)

darkcore = hardcore/gabber but with rather distinctive dark,evil,doom,scary samples. tracks: Enzyme X - Illuminatie, Manga Corps - The Hunter, D-Ranged - Pneumothorax

PLUS,About hardcore techno. Here I've got not enough knowledges, but. When I dont understand something - I'm trying to listen something, that contains that name. Let us take for example compilation Hardcore-Tekkno (ZYX 60008-2)-2CD-1992. Very primitive stuff, huh?, but as I understand It was called that way to be distinguished from the mainstream techno of the early 90-th. Maybe this things were proto-hardcore music...

And As I understand nowadays we have such names as hardtechno and schranz to present the agressive version of techno. but this hard techno is much different :D

Indeed, we do have Schranz or more commonly the term Hardtechno now, and some of the early harder Hardcore Techno which was around in the early 90's does resemble that. Listen to tracks like Whizzard - Groovy Guitar made back in 1991 on the Belgian Dance Energy label, aswell as KAA - Emphasis on the same label. If those tracks were made now (along with even some of the early Gabber from around 1992) they would more than likely be labeled as Hardtechno or even Hardtek if fast enough, due to the vast change in definition since then. I agree that Doomcore is not totally equal to Darkcore, but it is in actual fact a small micro-genre of it, rather than a subgenre of it's own. However, the term Doomcore (coined in 1992) was around about 6 years before Darkcore (coined in 1998). Darkcore-Hardcore should not be confused with Darkcore-Jungle either.ChrissyboyH44 (talk) 14:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Logo of Hardcore techno
Hi,

This logo often appears in order to represent hardcore: http://static01.dernek.ba/grupe/galerija/412471-795-89493-604390Hardcore_logo.JPG But I don't know by who and when this image has been made or if it is copyrighted. Any idea? Ftiercel (talk) 06:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Put in something about crossbreed?
This is a fusion of Industrial HC with Drum and bass, which has risen to prominence within the Hardcore scene in recent years. Should I put in anything about this? Salamibears58 (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2012 (UTC)Salamibears58

Merge with "Early Hardcore" and "Mainstream Hardcore" pages
Ok, we've got tons of pages regarding Hardcore music subgenres.

What about merge these two: Early Hardcore and Mainstream Hardcore to this (Hardcore techno) page?

The proper name of the article should be Hardcore (music), all the Hardcore music djs when they cite their genre just mention the word Hardcore:
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If you don't want to create confusion with the Hardcore Punk music, let's just rename that article Hardcore Punk (music). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumbodoren (talk • contribs) 20:25, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree this article should be named Hardcore (electronic dance music) but I don't think Early Hardcore and Mainstream hardcore should be merge here. I think the French article should be translated. Ftiercel (talk) 20:14, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * On your first point I also agree - page should move to that title. On your second point: why not? It makes no sense to duplicate pages and claim "it is different" without proof (proof being at least one reliable source mentioning both this page's definition of hardcore and the other page (mainstream hardcore) together side by side and referring to them as different (if they are truly different then that should have happened by now) and the difference should not just be mainstream versus non-mainstream. Wikipedia doesn't have a policy of creating separate articles for mainstream and non-mainstream versions of the same genre -Loginnigol 08:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This page (before: hardcore techno, now: hardcore [dance music genre]) is about hardcore in general.
 * Early hardcore is about old school/'90s gabber, a.k.a. hardcore house
 * Mainstream hardcore is about new school/modern gabber.


 * I'm opposed to merging all three of these pages. Speedcore is not gabber is not happy hardcore (although happy gabber exists). All of these subgenres are hardcore, however, and it makes sense to have a page about electronic hardcore music in general.


 * We used to have only one article about gabber/hardcore house, and it could be confusing to have two separate pages. Therefore I would not be opposed to merging early hardcore and mainstream hardcore back into a single article. Gabber did eventually evolve and is not the same today as it was in the '90s, but the question is if it serves the reader best to have two separate articles, when including all the information on a single page could provide a better overview of the evolution of the genre. /Jiiimbooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 23:41, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

See also a new merge proposal. Someone should probably close this one, but I won't since I participated in the discussion. /Jiiimbooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 21:08, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Extratone?
fast genre that usually has a tempo exceeding 1,000 BPM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.125.188 (talk) 22:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Origins of genre?
Hardcore, which spawned from the depths of the Netherlands, seem to be believed to have it's strongest roots in Techno, at least when you read this English page about the genre. But the Dutch themselves seem to differ on this.

>https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_house

>Hardcore house (ook bekend als [which translates to: "also called"] gabberhouse, gabber)

They seem to have a very firm view of it originating from House, not Techno. This is also rather obvious if you are a listener of the genre, especially in the earlier days (90's) where there were many references and samples of the word "House", but "Techno" I honestly don't think I ever heard. I believe there's something in this and perhaps if you can read Dutch you could take a look at their page and reflect back here. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_house

Not Dutch myself, I just love the music, have listened to it since I first found it, about 5 years ago and have gone through most classics, compilations and record labels. From the very start in the early 90s with Thunderdome, Mokum and Hellraiser, to the later years where I personally think it lost it's appeal. The old stuff is where it's at. And my point is to say - the pioneers themselves seem to point to a branching from House, rather than Techno. Love to see how this develops. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.138.219.229 (talk) 20:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * here they describe "Gabber-house" as a variant of "Hardcore-house." What was originally called "techno" in the UK was referred to as "techno house" in Germany. On the German wiki they call gabber a variant of "hardcore techno," the French wiki discusses all of this in the context of "hard house" (or "UK hard house"), so its not so simple, depends on the region, i don't think you can neatly separate techno from house and say "gabba" originated from house and not techno. It also appears (see DJ Paul's comments in the video) that in Rotterdam gabber developed as a response to the trendy and hip "mellow" club scene (Amsterdam), where people went "to be seen...[and] look ...pretty" which could account for the title "gabber-house" as an affront to the pretence of that house scene.  Semitransgenic  talk. 23:51, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Techno House is a worldwide term. It also have been used in the U.S. by the SPIN magazine. And it was Frankie Bones' "Call it Techno" that started with "Techno House is the sound...". In the late 80s, the term described exactly what we call "Techno" today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.21.57 (talk) 09:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * PS: I added Pankow to the list. They also have been described as Hardcore Techno in the 1980s. (listen to this track from 1985... i mean that's really weird shit!).

Lost in Translation
This is just another example of something from the UK/ Europe crossing over to North America and confusion abounds, as the Americans change it or the Name changes to mean something else. First of all the Term was not even in existence for very long. It was mostly influenced by house.

From what I remember what people called Hardcore Techno in North America was just that, The very fast paced sped up thumping of the beat at the end of the 90's early 2000s. And there was a whole bunch of nonsense around BPS (beats per second). Also American dance music cannot claim hardcore for a term as its a North American Punk Term started in the early 1980's, and the type of people involved in HK Punk and Dance mucsic are polar opposites.

So who ever wrote this is on the the talk page at the top here isright" "Harcore techno is very different to "hardcore" as it was generally known on the UK rave scene. Hardcore was a mixture of breakbeats and techno with a lot piano breaks and cartoon noises around 1991/1992 - it is more closely related to jungle than hardcore techno. It gave birth to the more cheesy happy hardcore." Starbwoy (talk) 15:49, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Hardcore techno is called hardcore by its adherents in exactly the same way hardcore punk is called hardcore by its. This is readily apparent in the many, many tracks from this genre that self-reference. This goes across countries of origin of the producers of these tracks. The full "hardcore techno" is used mostly as you would another person's full name: either as a matter of formality or clarification.
 * And the term has been in use in North America for the last 20+ years continuously. Here's a 1996 release from Industrial Strength with hardcore in the title: Muthafuckin New York Hardcore. Here's one from 2016: Hardcore Nightmare. Here's one from H2OH, another North American hardcore label, from 2005: Hardcore Revival 'The Expansion Of The Core'
 * The quote you reference is really just reflecting the very diffuse nature of all EDM genres back then. His description sounds very much like some of the descriptions of early hardcore (techno) from that period in the article.
 * Se7ens (talk) 07:29, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

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Doomcore is also a genre claimed in the metal scene
Is it?

It is still pretty new, so I could not find any nice sources. Nevertheless, it is used for metal bands too: http://metalinjection.net/video/black-tongues-new-song-ultima-necat-is-basically-doomcore https://www.last.fm/tag/doomcore/artists https://www.impericon.com/nl/black-tongue-doomcore-white-t-shirt.html 84.105.62.59 (talk) 15:11, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Found another link https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2949379/Member-British-doom-core-band-Black-Tongue-seriously-injured-falling-speeding-tour-bus-mistook-exit-toilet-door.html 84.105.62.59 (talk) 17:30, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

New page/section idea
There should be a new page (or at least a new section) for terrorcore. Do you agree? Wtoteqw (talk) 01:31, 19 April 2022 (UTC)