Talk:Hardcore dancing/Archive 1

why are people so closed minded about things.

I LOVE HARCORE DANCEING WHILE HAVING FUN SEX!!!!!!!
I think that the changing of this article to mental retardation is offensive and unfair. I agree that changing this article to mental retardation was VERY offensive. Mentally retarded people should be offended, knowing that someone out there thinks that they are comparable to hardcore dancers.

This page doesn't seem to have any redeeming value as far as encyclopedic articles go. It consists of too much NPOV material, constant vandalism and unsourced information. It needs wikifying, needs clean up, all that. Really, it has to be completely overhauled, or just deleted and put as a sub-heading under a related article. I vote the latter. You can't polish a turd.

I think the entry on the Windwolf Level 60 Druid dance move was completely inaccurate. Originally the move involved Zamphir, not Windwolf. I think that the name should be altered to reflect the origins.

I think that the changing of this article to mental retardation is offensive and unfair. However, it's more childish than anything else. I'm pretty sure that this is exactly the reason people have to cite sources on here. Im pretty upset and I've lost a little bit of respect for wikipedia.

This entry for "Hardcore Dancing" is completely wrong and should be deleted from Wikipedia.

"Hardcore Dancing" is not a form of Moshing, it IS moshing aka Slam Dancing. The term "Dancing at shows" derives from "Slam Dancing at shows."

Moshing or Slam Dancing or "thrashing" is exclusive to hardcore. Slam Dancing has been around since the late 70's/early eighties and was originated from the early DC, NYC, and LA hardcore scenes.

The Wikipedia article for Mosh is a lot more accurate. This one is just a big joke, and I suggest to completely remove it.

--- "...among the most popular are 3 preview videos for DVDs put out by the Guerilla Warfare Video Fanzine. All three feature a large..."

^ In the first sentence the number 3 is used. In the next sentence it is spelled out at three. 3 and three, its not consistant.

just added some different moves. anyone feel free to add some more.

blast beats are totally different than breakdowns. deleting it.

"While most participants simply get out on the floor and do it, many actually practice the "moves" outside of shows to look extra good at it." - This sentence is terrible, absolutely terrible.

Hardcore dancing is pretty idiotic.

Yeah I agree... Get out of the moshpit with your Chuck Norris wannabe self. I understand music affects different people differently, but people don't need to be assholes about it and disrupt what other people do. I don't know about everywhere else, but here in Kansas the "hardcore" kids like to do their dancing in the middle of the moshpit and then get pissed off when people try to mosh. --InsayneWrapper 21:24, 22 July 2006

Hardcore dancing is a form of techno music? THat's the most offensive thing I've ever heard. I'll be deleting THAT in a moment.

Hardcore DANCE is a form of dance music, it has nothing to do with hardcore dancing you n00b!! Flxxavier 21:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hardcore_dancing&action=edit# Flxxavier 21:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC) This article needs expansion. It seems to describe hardcore pits, and give name many reasons that metalheads don't like it. It does not, however, go into any description at all of the positive aspects of a hardcore pit. zelmerszoetrop
 * Positive aspects? Like what? getting a broken nose, honestly, someone fucking delete this travesty...

its good that there is somewhere explaining hardcore dancing to the masses. i think there should be pictures included o show the different moves 2 step, windmill ect

and that the word karate mosh has to be in there somewhere. oh and circle pits... evil things they are... --Evesummernight 00:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

This article is biased. It reads like something a butt-moshing fan of Slipknot would scrawl on a bathroom wall. 'Homo-Core'? Is this shit for real?

Hardcore dancing is kinda silly, but no more silly than moshing or headbanging, really. Safety should be taken into account though; I've been hurt by unnaounced hardcore dancers before (who, in turn, were beaten up bevcause they were pissing off the rest of the small crowd). Worse, a small female friend of mine had her face cut open at a hardcore gig by a man windmilling with a switchblade.

The main qualm I have is that the music they are referring to isn't really Hardcore, it's post hardcore.

"karate" dancing? "crowdkills"?
I've never heard the terms "karate" dancing or "ninja" dancing. It's always been called kickboxing as far as I've heard.

What the hecks a crowdkill? It sounds like the author was attempting to describe a wall of death. That's when a group of people lock arms and just mow down the pit, especially useful when the pit is filled with people not into what's going on or people that are being jerks.--Skeev 20:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

"Crowd killing" is legit. I always took it as the "head-bop" that is rather common anymore. Whatever. This article has some points that just make me cringe.

Crowd kills depend on the show and the location. In or around Charlotte, NC they are everywhere. And the bigger the show the more crowd kills you can expect. But they are the exception, not the rule.

"Many fans of regular punk rock, heavy metal, and older or retro versions of hardcore detest hardcore dancing, opting for more of a traditional slam dance in their pits, usually because hardcore dancing is viewed as being "less true" to the metal cause." - Not quite true. No one in their right mind cares about what's true to what; people dislike it because they think it looks stupid (myself included). It's also disliked because when people do the 'throwing punches' thing it often leads someone getting a fist in the mouth, whether it is a bystander receiving the blow or the dancer him/her-self.


 * If anything, "kickboxing/windmills/whatever flailing is being passed off" dancing is disliked by the old school hardcore kids mainly for the injury factor. They opt for more "posi" fun pits than the typical thug or metalcore pits.  The same usually goes for punk crowds.  Of course this doesn't hold true for all scenes and niether do most comments or observations in this piece.


 * In South Florida kids will do all sorts of dance moves typically reserved for a Hatebreed or Earth Crisis show while bands like Fastbreak, Ten Yard Fight or WFAWM were playing. Meanwhile in other scenes, in this example Naples in Western Florida, a more positive fun oriented pit prevails for these bands.  Case in point, Kill Your Idols plays in Miami, fists are flying, people are falling and shit goes everywhere.  KYI plays in Naples, most fun atmosphere you could think of.  This is true everywhere, kids on NY and kids in CA will react differently to bands and styles.--Skeev 20:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

some of the people in the pics currently up don't even look like they're hardcore dancing... better pictures need to be put up

Oh my God do any of you people even dance? A crowd kill is when someone is catapulted into the onlookers and flails about. Ninja dancing and kickboxing are not terms for this subcultures dancing,most of you listen to like Slipknot or mainstream garbage and dont know shit about what you guys are talking about. This guy above me listens to toughguy hardcore and his views are extrememly narrow. And the photos of the exampls suck so much ass. Get a life you mainstream fags and let people who actually participate explain the dance.

-AIM:abandonthisship


 * Who cares. Hardcore is stupid. WRRAAHWWWRRRRRAAAAAAHHHH *punches the air starts kicking* It's all novelty anyway dude, get a life and find another scene because this one lacks shelf-life.

Straight Edge
All references to Straight Edge should be reviewed as sXe has nothing to do with dancing other than the fact they both come from Hardcore. Not all Straight Edge people are Dancers, not all Dancers are Straight Edge. If no one has anything to add I'll change it in a week or so. --Xdiabolicalx 01:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

For my family, for my friends... we drew a crowd; the crowd drew blood... 18:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

hxc ryan is fake..probobly just in it for the scene style clothing.

Regional differences
I completely removed the section on regional differences. It is full of terrible biases.Whotookthatguy 02:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the regional differences needs to make a comeback with people from different regions just putting in specifics from Their region. I think it would be pretty interesting seeing someones take in Cali on dancing as compared to here in Nashkill.

Pictures
The pictures aren't really helpful (still images of dancing don't do much to illustrate the concept) and come from a nonfree source. I think they should be removed.--Aleron235 06:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The first one could be kept though, the other ones don't really show what hardcore dancing is.

GOOD LORD. these pictures are horrible. could someone please put up some new ones? Pictures of real dancers who are actually dancing?? please. --hXc ryan-- 14:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

ninja mosh
I always hated ninja mosh, until I read this page.

It's still retarded, but it rules that something like this got so big underground, organically.

i got socked in the face and gut by ninja moshers, but i'm not biased about it. it was an accident. and if they really enjoy ninja moshing....let 'em. to each his own, i guess. --hXc ryan-- 14:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Dude, there is no such thing as "ninja mosh". Your probobly just another gothic kid who wears a cradle of filth shirt with bondage pance.

lmfao pwn't

wtf
Who deleted regional differences, that's really cool to read about.

I agree completly... i live in jersey and i go to a show roughly every weekend.... iv been to shows in Jersey, NYC, Florida, mid-west, and unfortuionaly, california. i love hardcore dancing and have been actuvly in the HxC "scene" for quite a while.(4 years) i do dance and i know what is accurate and exceptable in a pit. Region does play a great part in differances of hardcore dancing. As many of you may know NJ was one of the first states to spawn a band who made "circle pits" well known. personally i hate them, but thats my opionin. Now for my 2nd descreancy. For all the "old school" hardcore kids, it is actually safer to dance instead of be in what i liek to call pushpits. The thing is all of the peopel doing the complaining that is violant and dangerious are the people that have only been to 1 of three shows.(not even shows, festivals or concerts. (shows are local and not well advirtised, but always the most fun.)) they have been to Bamboozle, Warped tour, and sound of the underground. thats it. and the reason its dangerious their is because very few people actually know what there doing. they hop in the pit and start start swinging wildly. these are the people i aim for.(even though when you do throwdown it is discouraged to aim. ill make and exception. =)) you need to first learn about the moves, the people, and the music. The first thing is go to a show and stand on the edge of the pit for the entire show if you have never thrown. if you have thrown, stand there for about 15 to 20 min.s or sit on the steps in from of the venue and watch. study who is friends with who and who knows who. this will be very benifitial to you because if someone is very well known in the hardcore scene he/she wll be very well "protected" at a show. at this time you must go to one of two exstreames. stay as far away form this person, as to not hit him. or try and strike conversation. if he is a friend you will also be well protected.... i am sorry about swiutching to so many differant subject form my intended one but i feel all these isuese need to be adressed. Don't judge if you dont know. be your self. SxE for life. Jerzey for ever.

sXe is the way to go. michigan hardcore for liiiife --hXc ryan-- 18:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yep, 'be yourself', i agree with that bit. I started off with a cliche, but hear me out...Hardcore isnt about making connections, following fucking ettiquette, following fucking rules. Fucking hell thats exactly whats its not about! Fuck all these terms; throwing, ninjas, crowdkill - who cares? Actually i know who cares - people who care too much about looking good, or looking right or cool or whatever. 'Hardcore dancing' needs no thought behind it. It is just getting rid of excess agression, fucking going wild and having a good time! You shouldnt have to worry about anyone else either in terms of who gets hurt, or what 'cooler' people or whatever think about your 'moves'! I'm not trying to detract from anyone elses experiences, but there is no feeling in the world like being at a hardcore show for me. And I bet that at least half the people who turn up at hardcore shows never really, truly enjoy themselves and let go, because they're too busy worrying about others opnions. Its not just about enjoying youself either, it is the one place for most people I know that are into hardcore, that you can swing your arms or legs or head or whatever fucking part of the body you want, as fast or as wild or as hard as you want without giving a shit. Its not about 'moves' -you dont have to do anything the fastest, the lowest, the hardest, the most violent or the slickest. For me its ultimately a positive experience, I get my fix, so hate and shit doesnt pollute the rest of my life, but that doesnt mean I go out of my way not to hurt people. However, everyone gets something different from hardcore I guess. For some its about maximum damage - aiming for faces etc. But at the end of the day its all good! There are dickheads and thats that. There are pussies and thats that, it doesnt matter. The people that actually do my fucking head in are the people that complain about getting hurt. If you dont want to get hurt, either dont go to the show, or stand at the back with a screw face all night long and have a shit time. Actually I take that back, you dont have to dance to have a good time at a harcore show. But dont complain cos you got hit without warning. Turn you brain on and move out of the way!! But I'm absolutely positive on one point; Live shows are what hardcore is all about -I know everyone will agree with me on that. This is an encyclopedia, so it should be facts and all that, but its my opinion that all the bullshit people are talking on this subject is a detraction from any ethics that lie behind hardcore. I think an underlying ethic of hardcore is to say fuck you to any control that people have over your life, beit 'the system', the 'suits' who run the major labels etc etc, or your peers who pressure you intentionally or not, into acting a certain way. 'hardcore dancing' is an extention of that ethic, so fuck peer pressure, self conciousness, and fuck everyone else, cos when you dance, you just shouldnt care about technique or jargon or anything. Ignore wikipedia and just go fucking mental! And for those of you that arent into hardcore....hardcore dancing is a load of sweaty teenagers running round chucking their limbs all over the place and bumping into other sweaty teenagers.

Oh Jesus, both of ya, shut the fuck up. You've made the most inane messages about what dancing means. It means shit to people that DO mind looking like a tool. And you fucking seperate the crowd, so everyone can watch you dance. It's all about being a fashionista, otherwise, you and your ilk would fuck off and do it somewhere else, no dead centre of the crowd. It's no wonder people that dance are laughed at. Especially with your shite excuse of a defence for it.

Celine Dion?
I somehow doubt that Celine Dion's music was instrumental in the formation of hardcore dancing.

Cleanup Nov. 25
I cleaned up a whole bunch of stuff, including deleting uncited point of view, and improving the wording, grammar, spelling and formatting. This article still needs references and other improvements. Spylab 22:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

???
How is hardcore dancing idiotic? This article is a bit off but for the most part is accurate. Hardcore dancing is not idiotic and is a shoot-off of moshing but is almost entirely different in the present time.

Crucial Attack involves hardcore punks beating up Christian f*cks. This seems very biased to me. I'll delete it until it's put into a non-biased format. Many Hardcore kids are Christians (look at UnderOath and The Devil Wears Prada). This is not only offensive to them but just offensive in general. 4.234.51.41 17:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

SHUT IT YOU MUPPET!!! underoath and devil wears prada arent fucking hardcore you tool!!!

i agree with saying underoath and the devil wears prada are not hardcore. old underoath was just some christian kids trying to write death metal. the new underoath is just socially acceptable music with screaming. and tdwp is more metal than hardcore, and it seems they write metal for girls. i'm not gonna lie.

Disputing this is a waste
through out all of the arguments presented, all I see is pepole arguing their inflated opinions. Its dancing guys; people will do it how they want. As for this article, its a good, general, but still specific enough to give you an idea. As for it not being a "form of mosh," if its an accepted form of movement done in a mosh pit, its moshing. And besides, don't you think you should relax a bit when an article, that can be Modifyed if its incorrect, has the ability to piss you off? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XNeverFallX (talk • contribs) 16:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

yeah, you're right but if there's an opportunity to voice your opinion, then why not.

Pick Up Change???
The Pick Up Change move is a big thing where I'm from at shows. But, in other places that I've been to, they have never heard of the Pick Up Change move. And I was wondering if it was considered somewhat of an official move or just something they do in certain places??? I met a few people from New York who are HXC dancers as well, and they dance very different from our North Carolina HXC dancers. Catherine Slaughter XxNo.One.RunsxX 14:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

This is pointless.
Hardcore dancing IS a form of dancing, but around here, we don't consider it moshing at all. When reading this article, I agree with most of it. However, the paragraph about REGIONAL dancing should have remained.

I was talking to a friend of mine from El Paso, TX. And we have found that our two-steps are very different. Here in Florence, we have a completely different two-step, that sets us apart. Also, just in this area, Hartsville and Manning, which are towns probably 20 minutes away from Florence, have their own two-steps as well. So, just in this region of South Carolina, there are three different kinds of two-steps.

I personally think alot of people are just bashing Hardcore Dancing for their opinions, and not really looking into it. Here, when people want to push-mosh, we get out of the pit, and let them do there thing. It's a matter of being polite. I hate push-moshers, but I respect what they do. FlorenceHxC 15:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)FlorenceHxC

Hardcore dancing is lame and watered down now
Slamdancing, skanking, the H.B. strut, etc used to be much more violent when it started. I know because I was there, in L.A. All this "moshing" crap is just watered down B.S. When they started calling it "moshing" is when the clueless metalheads starting getting involved and started trying to imitate what the punks were doing but were too wimpy to do the real thing. "Dancing" at hardcore shows wasn't about "punching the floor," helping people up that fell down, etc. It was about getting your aggression out by inflicting pain on others on the dance floor and having pain inflicted on yourself by others. If someone fell down, you didn't help them up. You kicked them when they were down. You didn't punch the air. You punched other people. Hate and anger ruled the dance floor, not brotherly love. A punk show was not complete without at least a few people getting bloodied up. Your Disease 21:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

== I think its ironic that you have listed your username as "Your Disease" because in my opinion it is people like You that are the Disease of the earth. Although i think a lot of this article is innacurate and highly debatable most of it is correct. However your outlook on society is twisted and i really thought until now the majority of society was decent enough, you however disprove this. The culture of "moshing" fairly evidently changed from this punk moshing you speak of, in truth 99.9% of humans do NOT want to hurt each other deliberately or be hurt physically by another human being, it is natural instinct for people to respect each other. That is why know as stated in the article and other aticles, it is common courtesy for somone who falls in a "pit" to be helped up, and this will pretty much always be by someone they dont know, its a form of respect for each other and the people "dancing" in the "pit". The "pit" now is where people "dance" be it "hXc dancing" or "push-moshing" etcetera, the people "floor punching" are doing the "dance" they want to do. Im not denying that the "pit" is not a way of letting out "aggression" as you call it, but there is no reason why this has to be done through physical violence towards other people in the "pit", you talk about "kicking people when theyre down" and would i be wrong in asking a serious question that 'who would enjoy being kicked when they were down?', you made a mistake dancing in a pit and fell, it wouldnt be great if someone deliberately kicks you Because you are down. I feel that your outlook of "inflicting pain on others" is what the "pit" is about, puts you in the minority in relation to this subject and that 99.9% of other people would not agree that this is what "pit"'s are about. People enter "pit"'s now to "dance" how they want, and this usually depends on the band playing and the type of music obviously, and if were talking about "Hardcore Pits" then ive seen my fair share at gigs and can share that they are still as brutal as ever, however theyre purpose is so that people "dance" in them, people dont enter the pit to be hurt or hurt others, they go to "dance". However im sure if you got in the way of someones arms or legs during one of the "combos" they perform then youd suffer serious injury yourself and possibly them too and certainly somone would "get bloodied up" as you call it, and this happens often at hXc shows, albeit accidentlly, however their intention was not to hit you because they were just "dancing". Im hoping im making sense here, and as far as i know, a developed human being in modern society would not be able to relieve any kind of anger anger through being hurt by another human being, unless of course this person was either a: a) sadist or b) masochist, which im sure most human beings are not and so would not be able to relieve anger through pain and instead im sure this would just fuel their anger. The "punk" moshing you speak of sounds like angsty punk kids going to shows and hurting each other and just getting overall more angry with each other and at the end of the day someone getting hurt. You sir are part of this common misconception that "mosh pits" are about people hurting each other, whereas i think its fair to say they are really about kids/teens/adults having fun and "dancing" and often a form of dancing to let out stress and anger, this doesnt mean that "hate and anger rule the dance floor" as you call it, just that the "dancing" performed is a way of showing it or relieving it. The Minority intention is to cause pain but the majority is to "dance", is this fair ?? 15April/07. Wi|| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.58.78.119 (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

I really dont agree with either of you. "Your Disease's" idea of a pit is way to brutal and is not what any hardcore music is about. If you want an everyman for himself brawl go do that somewhere else. People who purposely hunt people down in the pit and try and punch them are going to get knocked out. Tolerance for that immature BS has tightened, but if you want to "edge mosh" or "crowd punch" all the more power to you. Dont be around the pit or at a hardcore show if you think there is no chance of you getting hurt. Everyone is fullly aware of the dangers at a hardcore show so deal with it!

-I agreed with "Your Disease" up until he got to the part about not helping people up when they fell and it not being about brotherly love. why the hell would you want to kick the kid's ass next to you if he's at a good show? you'd think that he might just be pretty cool to share the same taste of music with you. i understand trying to get your aggression out. if you want to do that, then just mosh! don't try to fucking kill everyone there! and this "hardcore dancing" has gone to shit also... everyone has their own little sections now! it's like square dancing! no one wants to get hit so they just move out and litterally DANCE! it's not only retarted but boring as hell! watch a Minor Threat video on youtube and learn what you're really supposed to be doing!

yeah...
hardcore dancing sucks...screw the NPOV.....hardcore dancing just sucks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.231.243.148 (talk) 14:23, 7 April 2007 (UTC).