Talk:Harley-Davidson

Instability Controversy
In recent years, some articles have appeared which implicate the Harely-Davidson models with the rubber-mounted engines in several accidents involving a peculiar motorcycle instability colloquially termed "high-speed wobble." The generation of a high-speed wobble can occur suddenly and become so vicious that no amount of rider input can control it; in such cases the motorcyle is usually upset and the rider thrown off. The causes of wobble (which can occur in any motorcycle) are many and varied, including improper tire inflation, wind-effects, irregularities in the road surface, after-market equipment (such as handle-bar or fork mounted windshields), speed, rider/passenger/luggage weight, and cornering forces. In particular, the inherent rigidity of the frame is important. A current theory as to why the Harley-Davidson cruiser motorcycles are apparently susceptible to this anomaly is the effects of the rubber-mounted engines. In the design of a motorcycle frame, the engineer/designer takes into account the rigidity added to the frame by a solidly bolted engine. In this case, the structure of the engine, being directly affixed to the frame, adds to frame rigidiy.

In an effort to make their cruisers as smooth running as the Japanese cruisers, Harley-Davidson simply changed the engine mounts on their big bikes, attaching the engine to the frame via rubber snubbers. This isolated engine vibration from the frame, but as an unintended consequence also removed the rigidity afforded by a solid engine-frame combination, and in addition allowed the engine itself to wobble under certain throttle settings and load conditions. The theory is that under these specific circumstances the vibrating engine sets up a harmonic with the frame, and a catastrophic wobble at speed may ensue. In support of this theory is the fact that wobble appears to be much less of a problem (if seen at all) in the rigidly-mounted engine models, such as the FLSTF Fatboy and the older Sportsters.

Operating under the assumption that a freely vibrating engine aggravated the appearance of high-speed wobble, several after-market companies released stabilizing kits which attach underneath the engine, usually via the transmission, and bolt the engine to the frame, allowing some vibratory isolation, but preventing any side-to-side movement of the engine. Rigorous data on the effect of these kits is not readily available, but the common consensus among Harley riders (as detailed in numerous motorcycle and Harley-Davidson bulletin boards, forums, and blogs) is that the kits are effective.

Harley-Davidson has not issued any official statement concerning this matter (possibly due to ongoing litigation), but 2012 cruiser models with rubber-mounted engines are being released with a braced engine. The Harley-Davidson brace is simply a threaded fastener which attaches from the cylinder head of the front cylinder and runs obliquely to a left frame member. This is a very visible device, as opposed to the after-market kits which are mounted underneath the frame. Whether this device is as effective as the aftermarket kits, or indeed, whether either type of device is effective at all, remains to be seen98.170.199.37 (talk) 02:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

(Above section copied from article. Needs sources cited and deletion of original research, revision for neutrality and WP:Undue weight. See WP:USERGENERATED for why forums, blogs, and bulletin boards can't be cited. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC))


 * You were right to remove this. There is still content in the article about the wobble problems, but that is well cited from three different sources. What you removed was original research without supporting references. --Biker Biker (talk) 10:10, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

New Harley world record
There is a new world record. Done by Michel von Tell on the Harley LiveWire. Over 1000 miles within one day. Its going around the world in the last days. I will post some links. Maybe someone will put this in the article or creat a topic with harley records in the article.

Canada https://electrek.co/2020/03/22/harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-1000-miles-in-24-hrs/ Germany https://www.motorradonline.de/elektro/harley-davidson-rekord-elektromotorrad/ Italia https://www.moto.it/elettrico/harley-davidson-livewire-1-723-km-in-24-h.html Chech Republic https://www.auto.cz/elektricky-harley-davidson-livewire-zlomil-dulezity-rekord-kolik-najel-za-24-hodin-133797 Arabia https://www.autocentre.ua/news/shvejtsarets-ustanovil-rekord-ginnesa-na-elektricheskom-harley-davidson-1210420.html

Timi!Tim!11 (talk) 18:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Archiving the talk page
The next time someone decides to archive old discussions on this page, would they please create a new archive page instead of chucking all the old discussions onto an existing archive page? If the page was archived because it was too long, appending one archive onto another is going to make that archive page even longer. If the time to do it properly is not available, leave it until it is, or for another editor who has it. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 11:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Over to you to fix it then if you think your way is the right way. --Biker Biker (talk) 12:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I think I will respect the sign you didn't, the one that said: This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. In so doing, I will leave it as it is.


 * For future reference, however: Help:Archiving a talk page


 * Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 12:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * It's common, especially when using an archivebot, to set the archive page size to something large (like 200k). In other words, it will get appended to more than once. The "do not modify" means "don't reply". tedder (talk) 14:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * In general, it's best to have only a bot handle archiving based on length and date and so on, not content, so there is never the appearance that editor is moving material away because they don't like what was said. There's less reason to bicker if it's always done blindly using standard bot settings. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Recession and subprime loans
Kevin Ash in The Daily Telegraph There should be better coverage of this aspect of H-D's troubles in relation to the Subprime mortgage crisis and the Automotive industry crisis of 2008–2010. It's misleading to present the world of motorcycling in isolation rather than highlighting the interconnections with the rest of society and historical events. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Additionally, there's not a word re the bailout money -$2.3 billion - taken by H.D. in 2010. The page looks like a sales brochure.Orthotox (talk) 08:20, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So find a reference and add it. Some balance to the article would be very welcome. --Biker Biker (talk) 08:34, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's a few
 * http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aF8aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pSoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1983,1766035 (only $10 million, from way back in 1986)
 * http://www.securitization.net/article.asp?id=1&aid=4560 (2005, pre-crisis)
 * http://www.securitization.net/knowledge/article.asp?id=111&aid=8960
 * http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/05/05/story1.html "About 29 percent of Harley-Davidson's outstanding loans were to subprime, or lower-rated, credit customers at the end of 2007, according to the company. "
 * http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9JREH901.htm
 * http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/568/8613/Motorcycle-Article/Harley-Davidson-Loaned--2-3-Billion-from-Fed.aspx
 * http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/business/economy/22harley.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 * --Dennis Bratland (talk) 09:42, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Chapter of Cases in Financial Reporting at Google Books covering H-D and subprime loan crisis. (Includes a throwaway comment that Brando, riding a Triumph, established Harley's reputation for rebellion in The Wild One, but whatever...) --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Any chance of a return to Good Article status?
No. It's Wikipedia, the Wild West of lies and bovine excrement. I came here for the laughs. You idiots take this drivel seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pozzdonn (talk • contribs) 19:17, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Harley-Davidson/GA1

When this review was done, the reasons for stripping this article of its "Good Article" status were as follows:
 * 1) Prose quality: Too many orphan sentences and single sentence paragraphs.
 * 2) MoS compliance: Introduction is too short, see WP:LEAD for more info. Introduction should be a summary of the entire article, and generally should not contain information which is not contained within the body. One of the images contains a watermark for a website.
 * 3) Citation of reliable sources where necessary: Large areas of uncited information. Orphan sentences only complicate the issue of finding what comes from which source. Article is littered with tags and rough edits.
 * 4)  No original research: Uncited information may contain original research.

Since that time, the introduction has been expanded, the offending watermark has been cropped out of the image (which had been donated under the appropriate licence by the site in question), and citations have been added, though maybe not enough.

The peer reviewer tool came up with the following concerns:
 * 1) Consider adding more links to the article; per Manual of Style (links) and Build the web, create links to relevant articles.
 * 2) Per What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.
 * 3) Per Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 45 cubic inch, use 45 cubic inch, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 45 cubic inch.
 * 4) Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.
 * 5) Per Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.
 * 6) Per Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
 * 7) Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long – consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.
 * 8) The script has spotted the following contractions: Didn't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded. (A search of the article found the use of "didn't" in a quote of a reference.)

We should also keep an eye on WP:SIZERULE, which indicates that we should probably split this article. Granted, the 91 kB size is a gross figure and the readable prose would be somewhat less, but splitting off and summarizing the History and Engines sections might be advisable.

The Model Designations section could also use some work.

O.K., folks, are we up to it?

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 02:13, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

HD in popular culture
Should we add the fact that the Russian band Aria recorded the album (or single?) "Tribute to Harley-Davidson"? 83.237.225.175 (talk) 19:09, 28 January 2014 (UTC)  


 * Sure, add it... to Aria's article, not to Harley-Davidson's. See WP:WPACT. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

there are a few flicks that feature HD bikes prominently, including (at least) one that mentions a model by name in its title. are the people that are so keen to make wikipedia into a pocket-book by reducing the size of entries, are they against these things being mentioned here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_Glide_in_Blue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_on_a_Motorcycle

I'm sure there are more.

duncanrmi (talk) 01:35, 19 December 2020 (UTC)


 * "In popular culture" content gives a rundown of what we're looking for, such as at WP:IPCEXAMPLES. What we most need is a third party source - not a reference to Electra Glide in Blue, but a reference to a reliable source who verifies that it matters that it was a Harley-Davidson in that movie. What is it telling us that it was that bike and not some other bike? Did the movie affect H-D in some way? The source should tell us what that influence or meaning was, not merely that the bike was prominent in the movie.Just imagine if we had a list of every single time a character in a movie drank a Coca-Cola, or we saw someone vacuuming a rug with a Hoover. It's not just a matter of getting it down to pocket book size. You'd end up with a section at the end of the article filled with miscellaneous connect, sometimes called "trivia", which is essentially a garbage dump at the bottom of an article where unconnected arbitrary factoids collect. See Manual of Style/Trivia sections. A fact can exist yet have no meaning, and without meaning facts tend to get thrown on a heap, which isn't valuable. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:09, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Factory Locations
Nowhere does it indicate where the bikes are actually built and assembled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.34.34.203 (talk) 23:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It says the US, Gurgaon, India, and Manaus, Brazil. We could add each US factory location; there's 8 of them making various components. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

New NEWS today
Headline-1: Harley-Davidson introduces electric motorcycle QUOTE: "Harley-Davidson will unveil its first electric motorcycle next week, and President Matt Levatich said he expects the company known for its big touring bikes and iconic brand to become a leader in developing technology and standards for electric vehicles. Harley will show handmade demonstration models Monday at an invitation-only event in New York. The company will then take several dozen riders on a 30-city tour to test drive the bikes and provide feedback. Harley will use the information it gathers to continue refining the bike, which might not hit the market for several more years. The venture is a risk for Harley because there's currently almost no market ..." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC) -- PS:FYI for future editing.
 * http://www.myfoxny.com/story/25817399/harley-davidson-introduces-electric-motorcycle

Neat police bike photo, 1922, PD-US
50 miles for a dollar—gas, oil, tires, and all. — ¾-10 04:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

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need to update the site on Harley engines... the twin cam engine has been replaced
please update accordingly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.234.151 (talk) 14:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

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Mention of HD Clubs
Hello, recently Dennis Bratland removed my content mentioning Harley-Davidson Clubs. These clubs contributed significantly to the fame of this brand around the world, therefore should be mentioned here, at least in one sentence. There was also mention of the oldest one, which is now located in Prague, which became the oldest H-D club in the world in 1978, when the San Francisco club, till then the oldest, stopped existing. It is sourced by two H-D clubs (Prague and Preston), and by independent sources: Itnsource, Czech car magazine Auto.cz and Czech TV Nova. These both informations meets the criteria for notability and reliability, therefore should be included. Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The information you've been edit warring to include is off-topic, unencyclopedic tripe. 32.218.33.164 (talk) 17:39, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * How this could be off-topic Dennis? Harley-Davidson Clubs are directly related to Harley-Davidson, uses their logo, promoting their products, spreads fame of this brand around the world. Therefore at least one sentence should be here included.Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:43, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't say its off topic. I asked why it's so important. Do you have any evidence that "these clubs contributed significantly to the fame of this brand around the world"? That's a bold claim. If it is true, there ought to be proof of that lying around somewhere. All we have is the club and the dealership in Prague saying it about themselves. Why doesn't Harley-Davidson say it? Why don't any journalists or historians say it? Many books have been written on the history of Harley-Davidson, yet this club which made such a significant contribution is never even mentioned? Why?I don't think the sources given are reliable, or that they are even in a position to know what they claim. I started a discussion at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard to seek consensus on the sources: Reliable sources/Noticeboard Let's see what others have to say. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:04, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You still do not believe me? Ok, here you go-another ones: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Is it enough? Jirka.h23 (talk) 18:19, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think you're paying attention to my reasons for questioning this. I asked several specific questions. Perhaps wait and see what other editors at the RS/N have to say. Maybe one of them can explain it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:23, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not paying attention to your reasons? All I do is still trying to answer your changing reasons for your clearance of sourced content. So what is your stance? Are you challenging that these clubs contributed to spread the name of HD around the world? Look for example here, it was Harley-Davidson Clubs from the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium who stand in the beginning of the Super Rally, a huge challenge that also popularising the name of Harley-Davidson. Also read there: "As a member a of FH-DCE you have support and a voice both within the world of Harley-Davidson and in the world of motorcycling." I would say, that at least one sentence should be mentioned here, and this is not against anything.Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:31, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess what you're saying is, a reliable source is anything you found on any website. That's incorrect. You've mentioned two encyclopedia articles in your arguments, Reliability of Wikipedia and Notability in the English Wikipedia, rather than the actual policies, Identifying reliable sources, and Notability (which is not relevant at all; this isn't an AfD discussion -- read WP:NNC). Do you understand the difference between Reliability of Wikipedia and Identifying reliable sources? They're two drastically different things. All I can suggest is that you read the latter, WP:RS, carefully and try to understand it better. The essay Identifying and using independent sources might offer some insight too. Putting aside all the self-published sources you're using (WP:NOTRELIABLE explains why), just because something is ostensibly a news organization doesn't make it sufficient to verify anything and everything. Some claims have to be held to a higher standard. WP:NEWSORG discusses why.So you have self-serving, self-published websites, which we can throw right out the window. And then you have some very brief news items which are very obviously just rehashes of press releases and quotations of the subject's claims about itself. A claim like this needs to be based on sources that have no conflict of interest, and that plausibly could have verified the claim in some way. The sense I get from most of these "news" sites is that they simply don't care whether or not this is the first Harley club in the world. They aren't interested in finding out. If they had exerted any effort to verify it, they'd be telling us so. We have no plausible explanation for how anyone found proof that this historical claim is true. It's just a thing this club says, and a lot of locals in Prague believe it. That's all.So basically, as the IP said, it's tripe. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:41, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * What brief news are you talking about? For example author of article on E15 (Economic news) is ČTK - national and the biggest Czech news agency, they can't just so easy fabricate a claim with no factual basis or evidence. The sense I get from you, is that because I do not know (or do not believe) something - it is surely not true. What Club is older then? Also, if you claim, that they do not trying to find out if this is the first HD Club, that is not true, you can find out that it became the oldest in 1978, when the San Francisco club, till then the oldest, stopped existing. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is another source of Mafra company, the largest Czech media company, that publishes the most widely read Czech journal MF-DNES. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:45, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Because you have not answered for more than two weeks now and a pp-dispute expired week ago, I have added these, in my opinion, more reliable sources to the article. Bye for now and take care, I hope our next encounter will be in a less conflicting case. Jirka.h23 (talk) 15:08, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Nobody participated in the Reliable Sources Noticeboard request. I can't force others to settle the question, but you shouldn't assume it is settled when nobody has said anything one way or the other. I expect we will eventually see other editors delete this entry for the same reasons I did, and we will once again have to attempt to find consensus on the question of whether your sources are acceptable. It's still a dubious claim, without independent sources, and of questionable relevance to an article about a company. We will have to wait and see. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:54, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Dennis, it is strange that you are finally answering after so much time and even do not care to say anything about my previous posts. So I am asking you once again, are two previous sources reliable or not? If not, then for what reason? I am talking about E15 and iDnes sources. Thanks for your answer. Jirka.h23 (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think they are. They lack independence, and they haven't demonstrated how they are in a position to know which clubs existed in Timbuktu and White Plains and Manchester in 1925. The entire tale lacks plausibility. The sources are too local, too insular, and too connected to the subject. Sources with no connection to the subject who have demonstrated that they have the means to know which clubs existed 80 or 90 years ago would be persuasive. Established, respected motorcycling journalists, authors, and historians from other countries, for example. I've already said this before. I don't want to keep repeating it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 05:09, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You do not said this before, this is new to me. Are you saying that because those sources are from Czech Republic then they are too connected to the subject and therefore they lack independence? These are respected journals (also motorcycle and automotive), they do not have any interest in spreading false information, except for own reputation and disgrace. Are you saying that if we will have sources just from for example Slovenia (because no other country will care), this should be identified as too local and should be deleted immediately from wikipedia? Same with sources from America? Should now I go and follow this? Where in Wikipedia policy can I read about this? Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:18, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I talked about it with a friend from Italy, and he immediately send me these sources: Motori.it, Motorbox.com, Repubblica.it, is it enough finally? Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:18, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:52, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Elton John at the 100th anniversary birthday celebration of Harley Davidson
A user has suggested that this reference does not belong on the article. However Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which must be neutral and balanced. I believe removing material that is not flattering to Harley Davidson would make the wikipedia entry a brochure or promotion. Please discuss here if you have interest.  Lubbad85  (☎) 02:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Idea: let's remove this section and then we can have a discussion about the permanent impact that Elton John playing a concert in 2009 had on Harley Davidson. If we find that it has significantly shaped the trajectory of the company we know today, then we can re-insert it!
 * Part of the history of the company. But please sign your posts. It is not about trajectory  Lubbad85   (☎) 02:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You keep framing this as removing material that is not flattering to Harley Davidson and I don't think anybody sees it like that, since there is no mention of controversy or complication. It's more about putting a "100 Year Anniversary Celebration" on the same level as "World War II" in Harley's history, which is absurd.


 * I suggest we remove the "100th Anniversary" and "First overseas factory in Brazil" subsections as a start. Realistically the entire History section needs to be revised down to less than ten subsections to be remotely coherent. I'm willing to do this work but not if you're going to undo all my edits. Proofbygazing (talk) 20:07, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Missing Model Family
The article is missing Model Family "Livewire". No references anywhere in the article. Notable for being electric, I think its the first Harley model to be electric. Darwulf (talk) 23:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Possible expansion on Environmental Record section
A couple of things I've found here.

- They have an electric model called the Livewire

- Their York, PA facility is involved in the EPA "One Cleanup Program" and was the first in the US to volunteer and enroll in this program.

Part of an ongoing project I've started. Further information can be found on my talk page, and I'd appreciate any help. Darwulf (talk) 23:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Closing down Indian operation?
I seem to remember a recent news article that H-D is closing down their Indian operation. However, their is no mention of it in the article. What is the status of the Indian operation? --TGC55 (talk) 13:20, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Talk about a long wait for an answer! I just updated Harley-Davidson India accordingly. I'm working on updating this main Harley article now. It's a bit out of date. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  17:14, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II
— Assignment last updated by Michelle312 (talk) 02:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

My husband passed away 3/5/2024
I just wanted Harley-Davidson to know,my husband loved his so much. We he got sick he would not let me sale it. He ordered his Softtail 2002. It only has 2,200 miles on before he started getting sick. I don’t know what I could get out of it. It’s like brand new. He put a seat for two on it, so we could enjoy it together. You never know how long you have on this earth. He was a member of th hog. I just wanted to share his love he had for his Harley. His name was Don O Turner Sr from Spartanburg SC. There should be a website that people could tell how much they love their Harley. Thanks 99.95.153.161 (talk) 17:23, 3 June 2024 (UTC)