Talk:Harley Earl

try using sections
This page is too optimistic about Henry Earl's career. This isn't an ass-kissing session, and he's definitely not the best car designer in the world, as the design article suggests.


 * References gleened from the following:

"The life and Times of Harley Earl" - Julian Blaustien.

"A study in General Motors Hiring practices" - Thomas Mchail.

"The Ugliest car in the world" - Walt Woron.

"Ugly Faces, Ugly Cars". - Pat McIrish

Face
The facts. Why remove factual content from articles simply because it doesnt seem "politicaly correct". If you disagree about the hiring practices of Earl and his peers back it up with facts. The automotive world is and always has been dominated by White Anglo Saxon Protestents, save a few tokens (Lee Iacoca, Larry Shinoda). Earl was a despot. He once fired a man for wearing a necktie simalar to his own. If you can prove that what this article states about discrimination is untrue, state it. If not, stop including that bullshit about what a God Earl was. Lets see how many non Anglo-Saxon names you can find in the roster of upper level automotive management. And understand that for years these incompetent pigs paid themselves millions in saleries and bonuses yet were afraid to come up with any new innovations for fear that if these ideas did not sell, it would effectivly end their careers. randazzo56 00:15, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Complete rewrite
"The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof, shit detector." Ernest Hemingway to George Plimpton, interview in Paris Review Issue 18 (Spring 1958)

The essential mistake most of us made (including me) was to try to edit that turgid, sycophantic essay. I have learned from that mistake and rewritten just about the whole thing, with very few references to what was there before.

When you edit this, please make it look more like a good encyclopaedia entry, and less like what it was before this? I thank you, and I am certain that Mr. Earl does too. Respectfully, SamBlob 01:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent job! Well needed and well done. Dino246 07:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:CITE
In case the person who added the camo references returns ... to properly add inline citations please read this article: WP:CITE. --Hutcher (talk) 02:24, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

MBEP is creeping back in
I notice that the lead section has been expanded greatly, largely with uncited, non-neutral statements containing peacock terms. I have removed the most blatant examples of this, although this needs more thorough examination by someone familiar with the stated sources, as I have mostly left the sourced material alone.

It does seem, however, that Male Bovine Eliminatory Product (MBEP) is creeping back into this article.

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 02:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think 'oozing' is the correct verb. Nice clean up. Dino246 (talk) 17:32, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Question on Early Life
Regarding the last sentence of Early Life section...who was six feet four and one half inches tall...Harley Earl, Fatty Arbuckle or Tom Mix? 142.229.107.132 (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Color?
"About a month later, Mr. Sloan asked me to come back to New York to discuss a permanent job in the new styling department, which was to be called the Art & Colour Section,' Earl recalled. 'I started that, and the thing sort of grew. .*.*.' Earl thought it was a sissy name, with its British spelling, and 10 years later he saw it change into the Styling Section." http://www.autonews.com/article/19960626/ANA/606260737/gms-harley-earl-invented-auto-design Seasalt (talk) 07:46, 15 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The cited ref, chapter 15 of Sloan's My Years with General Motors, which I cited from my copy of the Currency/Doubleday reprint (ISBN 978-0-385-04235-2), uses the American spelling ("Art and Color Section"), as given in the current version of this article as I write this. However, it may well be that the copy editing of that book, either its 1963 original edition or the reprint or both, does not reflect the spelling that was used internally at GM when the section was created in 1927, although it properly should have. A search of Google Books for "Art & Colour Section" as of this writing shows 149 results that seem to suggest that the "Art & Colour Section" spelling was used back in the 1920s and 30s. — ¾-10 19:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

There are other sources for this. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=mNv6To9LBjIC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=harley+earl+art+and+colour+department+spelling&source=bl&ots=PUdX4quuW0&sig=AeqaRL-BvcI4EhBUaxMX18_gkjM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjviOaG8sDKAhWoGaYKHReIDcgQ6AEIQjAH#v=onepage&q=harley%20earl%20art%20and%20colour%20department%20spelling&f=false

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=qgFK7fwC9v0C&pg=PR6&lpg=PR6&dq=harley+earl+art+and+colour+department+spelling&source=bl&ots=SUSyyWM8DC&sig=5cxhzVv7nSRf1qvvaySmcKsAKEQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjviOaG8sDKAhWoGaYKHReIDcgQ6AEIODAF#v=onepage&q=harley%20earl%20art%20and%20colour%20department%20spelling&f=false

Using the British spelling was Sloan's idea. It would seem Harley Earl wasn't comfortable with it either as he changed the name to "styling". Numerous sources "correct" the title assuming it to be an error, but it was deliberate. Seasalt (talk) 21:45, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130102085408/http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=101&category=people to http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=101&category=people
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070815165654/http://www.idavette.net/HistFact/earl.htm to http://www.idavette.net/HistFact/earl.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111229160717/http://www.carofthecentury.com/harley%27s_la_salle.htm to http://www.carofthecentury.com/harley%27s_la_salle.htm

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