Talk:Harold's Chicken Shack/Archive 1

Song
I understand there's an ode to Harold's that goes something like: Charge to Harold's, we all sing Glory to the chicken king! Late night snacks on 53rd Hope our cries for help are heard! [or "Greasy fries and Wonder Bread Wish they'd serve Rolaids instead"]

Harold's chicken is the finest And the sauce will clear your sinus What's a gizzard, anyway? Harold knows, but he won't say!

I'm not from Chicago, but I understand this song (or maybe filk) has floated around the University of Chicago for a while. Is anyone familiar with it? Are these all the lyrics? Assuming they are, would posting them here be appropriate? I'm betting they're sung to the tune of "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing," but I don't know.

Joe V. 20:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

JoeV - I helped write this song back in December, 1985. The authors were a group of First Year Undergraduate friends known as the "Fun Bunch" who lived in (all-male at the time) Hitchcock Hall. The song was written for a Hitchcock/Snell dorm-wide competition to create a University of Chicago specific Christmas Carol. We won (over a song based on Jingle Bells called "Oh I'm late", if I remember correctly) and were awarded a 750ml bottle of Bacardi for our efforts which was much appreciated and consumed by us underage drinkers swiftly.

You've got most of the lyrics. Some are outdated. The original Shack this was written about was a block or two further east on 53rd across from Leon's Ribs in a tiny little space with institutional chairs, a pop machine, no tables, and a carrel of bullet proof glass where you shouted your order, passed your money, and eventually received your chicken. They were also only up to Shack #38 at that point.

I'm typing from memory, and I will come back and correct after I consult with the other authors, but it was something like:

Charge to Harold's, we all sing Glory to the Chicken King Late night snacks on 53rd, Hope our cries for help are heard.

Harold's chicken is the finest And the sauce will clear your sinus 38 locations bring Glory to the Chicken King.

Greasy fries and Wonder bread Wish they sold Rolaids instead What's a gizzard anyway? Harold knows, but he won't say

Salt and pepper, make it swim It'll do your stomach in. (next two lines I don't remember) ("Make it swim" was how we ordered hot sauce on the bird)

chicken liver, thigh and wing Glory to the Chicken King (I can't remember this line and will consult with the others) Glory to the Chicken King (big finish)

Glad to see it's survived! - BigOldGeek

Hey, thanks, BigOldGeek! I've never stayed in Chicago, but I intend to visit a Harold's if I go. I heard about the song from a friend who was at UChicago, and thought I'd ask. I'll wait on your more complete lyrics.... Joe V. 01:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Copyright
The policy cops are out in force. Copyright infringement on someone's myspace page? Give me a break. TheQuandry 05:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's not a copyright page - then it is blatent advertising - as this article mirrors the page and, IMHO, is not a neutral presentation of the information. Additionally, I am not sure thet HCS meets WP:CORP standards for inclusion. We don't need an article on corner chicken resteraunts unless they are independently verifiable. Which when I was looking for independent verification I found the myspace article - try searching through the google results mostly reviews and an unofficial webpage - no independent or news sources. -- Trödel 17:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The WP:CORP discussion is exactly the same as the one we had at Golden Nugget Pancake House. Harold's Chicken Shack is hardly a "corner" chicken restaurant: it's a Chicago institution and a prime historical example of a relatively early African-American business, started by an African-American and geared towards the African-American community. It was determined that GNPH did satisfy WP:CORP and if that did then this CERTAINLY does. Harolds is perhaps more historically important to the Black community in Chicago than Kentucky Fried Chicken is.


 * I don't think this article is advertising, but I will give you that it's not exactly an outstanding article. We can't prove that the person with the myspace page didn't simply copy the text from the wikipedia article and paste it onto his page. And considering how many people create "official" myspace pages (try searching for your favorite band and see how many "official" pages they have), it seems that myspace is an unreliable method for determining copyright infringement. I think that someone just wanted to make a Harold's page on myspace and copied text from Wikipedia. Anyway, I'm going to try and figure out how to solve this. TheQuandry 06:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I added the article to the temp spot identified in the template with some changes. Mainly, I added some more external links to prove notability. TheQuandry 06:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've got too much on my plate at the moment to do a major rewrite, but I think this easily passes WP:CORP. I found 30 Lexis-Nexis hits, plus 10 more hits in the Tribune archive -- several of which are about the restaurant, and not just brief mentions. Zagalejo 08:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I am the one who created this article and wrote it in its entirety back in April, although there have been some minor changes since. The Myspace page came after this article and cut and pasted from it, not vice versa, and I can attest to that. The article should be re-instated. Also, Harold's certainly satisfies WP:CORP. It has been covered extensively in the Chicago media, is a large chain, and is a long-standing institution familiar to anyone who has spent much time in Chicago. WildThane 18:27, 19 November 2006 (EST)


 * There you have it. So please reinstate the article. TheQuandry 02:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would like to AGF; however, a user who has only edited this article raises red flags for me -- Trödel 15:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You can look at the history of the article. I misspoke when I said I wrote it in April. It was actually February. In any event, the history is clear that this article has been up since then. I can guarantee that the main content is mine, and the information is drawn from a variety of news articles from the Chicago area, as well as conversations with employees at different Harold's Chicken Shacks. Also, I do concede that this is the only article I've written, but that shouldn't detract from whether the article is included. I saw the lack of an article on this subject as being a deficiency of Wikipedia, and created my account for the purpose of contributing to the page. I think Harold's clearly fits the standards for inclusion.WildThane 12:00, 20 November 2006 (EST)
 * Sorry bout not assuming good faith - I see Single purpose accounts as a tool occasionally used by others. I still think it is promotional rather than encylopedic - no mention of the recent closure of #2 I believe it was for health code violations, etc. -- Trödel 22:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think the article is promotional. It merely describes Harold's in neither favorable nor unfavorable terms. Virtually every restaurant chain in the world has franchises caught with health violations from time to time, and that doesn't mean that should be mentioned in an encyclopedia entry about them. Moreover, if you feel that certain negatives about Harold's merit inclusion, that would be a case for adding that information to the article and letting the community edit it, rather than eliminating the entire article. WildThane 23:24, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Inclusion
From my brief read of the sources people have provided - see also [ this article(PDF)]. There definately is a good claim for inclusion as having historical importance. We just need to find a few more independent references and I think things will be good :) Thanks for the efforts to improve this article - I just stumbled upon it -- Trödel 15:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Chicago Tribune profile of Hyde Park - lists HCS as one of Chicago Magazines "Best of Chicago" choices. -- Trödel 16:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio statement
After some more research into how Wikipedia works, I believe, ultimately, that the person on Myspace copied the text here and used it on his/her page per Wikipedia's "free encyclopedia" concept. Note discussion above where a unser states that edits he made to the article later appeared on the Myspace page. Furthermore, I don't think that they Myspace page is an official one, just another fan page masquerading as official (you'd think a corporate page would look a lot nicer). TheQuandry 05:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Tallow
I believe Chicago recently outlawed frying food in beef tallow (or lard of any kind). Is Harold's in violation of this law, or is the info in the article out of date? Speciate 01:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this was actually hydrogenated oils, not tallow/lard. Yay for us! TheQuandry 03:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Location clarification
{this was taken from the Harold Pierce article, but I thought it more appropriate to be here.} A minor error concerning the location of the first Harold's Chicken Shack found its way into dozens of articles and I'd like to take a moment to correct it.

In the Reader, Mike Sula wrote: Gene Rosen, who owned a poultry shop down the street, offered him a few birds to fry up for the guys, and they liked the results so much that Pierce opened a take-out joint at 47th and Greenwood, with Rosen supplying the chickens. That was the original Harold’s Chicken Shack.

In the Tribune, Rick Kogan wrote: His first fried chicken restaurant, at 47th Street and Greenwood Avenue, was a huge success and in time he franchised his name and secret recipe and shacks began to pop up in converted spaces across the South Side.

As briefly noted in Guide to East 47th Street, the original Harold's Chicken Shack was at 1235 E 47th, between Woodlawn and Kimbark (though Kimbark doesn't quite extend to 47th). This was almost directly across from Gill's Liquors, a perfect location because a jug of Won't-Go-Flat was the ideal accompaniment to a batch of Harold's. Back then you could even purchase your beer from a drive-up window.

It was about a decade later in 1962 that, due to urban renewal, Chicken Shack #1 moved a short distance to 1106 E 47th, almost at the corner of Greenwood. Meanwhile Harold's second shop had opened at 6419 S Cottage Grove Av where it still stands.

If you look at the pictures at the end of the East 47th Street post linked to above, you'll see a shot of the abandoned Lee's Chicken Shack at 536 E 47th. Before Lee took over it was Harold's #4, opened in 1965. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.134.229.234 (talk) 22:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:FOOD Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 09:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Kanye reference
The article cites a Harold's Chicken Shack near Columbia College, where, it claims, Kanye went to school. But Kanye's article says he attended college at Chicago State University. Could anyone clear this up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.190.180 (talk) 05:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Reads like an advertisement
Reads like an advertisement, especially the second and third paragraphs in "food facts" Seadark (talk) 03:16, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't read that way to me, although it is unsourced. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 14:01, 4 January 2011 (UTC)