Talk:Harrogate

Etymology of "Harrogate"
The origins of the name of Harrogate are somewhat uncertain, so I'm not sure whether it is worth including a reference in the article. There are a few sources on the net that quote "Har Low Gata", meaning 'Grey Hill Road'" as being the original form. But I can find no source in RL for this. That said, the word "gate" in a town's name does usually derive from a scandinavian word meaning "road" or "way".

"A history of Harrogate and Knaresborough" by the Harrogate Local History Group has some details about the origin of the name. The earliest recorded references to the town come from Knaresborough court rolls dating from 1332. A variety of spellings are used including "Harugat", "Harougat", "Harowgat", "Heywraygate", "Harowgate", "Harwegate" and "Harlougate". The last one suggests "road to Harlow", but it is one of the least common forms of the name.

Apparently the first recorded citizen of the town was one John of Harrogate who was unfortunate enough to be caught hunting in the King's woods and brought before the magistrates in Knaresborough.

Harlow Hill is a prominent local landmark, so it is likely candidate for the origin of the town's name. That said, the site of Haverah Park (a Royal Park) lies just beyond Harlow Hill. Haverah used to be known as Haywra and so is also a potential source of the name.

Another history of Harrogate translated "Harlow" as meaning "Soldier's Hill". As mentioned above, a number of 'net sources translate it as "Grey Hill".

Myself, I reckon the name existed in a few different forms and was taken by different people to relate to different local landmarks. This led to various different pronunciations and spellings, until we stumbled upon the current form. So the origins of the town's name reflect a typically human confusion.


 * The first two ("Harugat", "Harougat") seem most likely to me. The local pronunciation is 'Arrer-gut'. The 'gut' is consistant with the way Scandinavians pronounce their word for street. Only very posh people and southerners say 'Harrow-gate' so I doubt 'Harrow' or 'Harlow' had anything to do with it. From what I remember 'Harlow' is not particularly close to the original High and Low Harrogates in any case.GordyB 08:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The local pronunciation of Harrogate is "Harrow-gayte". The only people who live in Harrogate are very posh people. The pronunciation "Arrer-gut" derives from the way people from Leeds say it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.232.203 (talk) 13:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I live in Harrogate and pronounce it Arra-g't. The g't at the end doesn't have a pronounced vowel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.179.109 (talk) 12:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Evidently not originally from Harrogate. Everyone in Harrogate says 'Harra-gut' or 'Harrow-gate'. H-dropping is not part of Harrogates accent, it derives from the Yorkshire accent which is not heard in Harrogate. In other words, you will only hear it as 'Arrogut' if someone has moved from a Yorkshire-speaking area like Bradford or South Leeds to Harrogate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.254.252 (talk) 09:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

H-dropping IS part of the accent of many Harrogate people. Not of all, or even most, but of many. The most common pronunciation is probably 'Harra-gut', but you do hear the H-dropped version of this, as well as 'Harra-gayte' from some locals. The above statement "The only people who live in Harrogate are very posh people" is absurd. Likewise, "H-dropping is not part of Harrogate's accent, it derives from the Yorkshire accent which is not heard in Harrogate" is equally wrong. Like most places, Harrogate has a variety of accents: broadly-spoken residents whose families have lived there for generations, lightly-accented residents who may be local but perhaps from more educated family backgrounds, and RP-speaking residents who may be originally from the south, or from well-heeled middle-class backgrounds. There appears to be some anger, bitterness and snobbery just beneath the surface of some of these comments - not to mention plain ignorance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.86.223 (talk) 18:24, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This is not a forum for general discussion. Are there reliable sources?--Charles (talk) 20:36, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

FIRE?
I've lived in Harrogate for nearly 20 years and have never heard of FIRE. The link just seems to point to some pictures of t-shirts and something on fire. I wouldn't exactly call it "One of the towns most loved social activities".

Cheers for the edit Rjstott.

FIRE is a floating club "thing" that - it's *REALLY* not worthy of an entry on wikipedia ;)

Leeds Connections
Has the reference, "Harrogate is strongly connected to Leeds, and is part of the Leeds City Region," been checked? Because as a Harrogate resident I'm not sure this is accurate, certainly not based on all the taxes, etc that I pay -- additionally, they are technically in different counties, covered by different police forces, councils, etc.
 * There is no official connection but Harrogate is just commuter belt for West Yorkshire.GordyB 08:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Recently the Harrogate Advertiser refered to the Leeds City Region. I have added a link below to reference the "Region" User:wrapsim5 11.25, 17 March 2007(UTC)

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/About_Leeds/Leeds_city_region/page.aspx

"Leeds City Region comprises the 10 local authority districts of Barnsley, Bradford, Calderdale, Craven, Harrogate, Kirklees, Leeds, Selby, Wakefield, and York, which reflects the true area of how the economy of Leeds and the other cities, towns and rural areas in the city region functions; for example, 95% of people who live in the city region also work in the city region."

This is ridicuous. Harrogate has nothing to do with Leeds what-so-ever. I have lived in Leeds my whole life and know this for a fact. Harrogate is in North Yorkshire and Leeds is in West Yorkshire, so they are completely different places. This was probably written by some Harrogate wannabe bad boy who knows of Leeds's poor reputation compared to Harrogate's(which has a reputation as a beautiful tourist destination). Harrogate has NOTHING to do with Leeds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.232.203 (talk) 12:56, 4 November #2007 (UTC)

Harrogate is a commutor town of Leeds, to say otherwise is just snobbery. I live in Wetherby and am under no illusions about the importance of Wetherby (granted Harrogate is larger and in a different county). Harrogate is void of industry (even more so then Wetherby) and the town centre is void of any ammenities that a town must offer to be an 'independent' town. The above comment is just middle class snobery over a town with an identity issue and a dillusion of importance. Trust me, I have been.

User:Mtaylor848

Although Harrogate is an independent town, there is no denying that it is heavily reliant upon Leeds for economic success. For example, buses run every 20 minutes to Leeds- trains every 30 mins- both of which double frequency at peak time. Compare this to our other neighbours. Until recently, there wasn't even a bus service to York. Many people in Harrogate commute to Leeds- it's a dormitory commuter town for Leeds without doubt. Harrogate College is part of Leeds Metropolitan University. Harrogate is part of Leeds City Region, to name just 2 examples. Metro conditions are applicable on Harrogate and District travel, despite Harrogate not being in the Metro area. There is a clear economic link between Harrogate and Leeds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.254.252 (talk) 22:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Population discrepency
When the right hand infobox was added on 1 March 2006 by Achmelvic the population was entered as "73,510", whereas the first paragraph states "85,128 according to the 2001 census". I've altered the population in the infobox to 85,128. I googled and http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pop2001/harrogate.asp seems to state the population is 150,000 so hey, if anyone knows the deal, please change it! --RickiRich 02:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Tesco
According to http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2007/01/10_things_we_didnt_know_last_w_11.shtml Harrogate is one of four UK postcodes that do not have a Tesco. Is this [a] true and [b] worthy of mention? Grant McKenna 00:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering that the other three places are extremely remote parts of Scotland, it is amazing. Definitely worth a mention.GordyB 16:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC) I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT HARROGATE HAS A TESCO NOW IN STARBACK, TESCO EXPRESS!!!!SO YEAH!

Yes there is not a tesco mainstore, but there is a tesco express petrol station. and a land site owned by Tesco, which they plan to build into a massive supermarket. see this: http://www2.harrogatetoday.co.uk/tesco/tescohome.asp?offset=1280 Philbuck222 14:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Just read about the Green Party's involvement in a campaign against the Tesco proposal. See: http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/3234 --Richardob 02:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposed (Oatlands, North Yorkshire)
The result was: Merge --B. Wolterding 17:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I propose to merge the content of Oatlands, North Yorkshire into here, since the notability of that article has been questioned. In fact, Oatlands seems to be part of Harrogate (not an independent settlement), and the article is very short, so it could well fit here.

Please add your comments below. Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 17:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

do it. BUT add add other boroughs. (bilton, jennyfields, knox) Philbuck222 19:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC) borough. That would best be done by someone more familiar with the topic than I am. --B. Wolterding 17:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll merge the text, but I'll leave it to others to add more

The "Woodlands" section
"Woodlands has been the scene of many Gang related attacks some involving drive by shootings over recent years which are linked to local gang 'woodlands man dem'. The area gained a notorious reputation for the infamous 'Woodlands riots' in 1987"

Sorry - what on Earth is this nonsense? I've lived here for years and I've never heard of any drive-by shootings, much less any "Woodlands Riots"! This is total fantasy. If you have any evidence of these "events" please cite it, otherwise - stop talking crap. Nsign 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

All the sections about Bilton and Jennyfields are crap. They are not rough and they are not poor. The areas are in Harrogate, which is a tourist town in North Yorkshire, and one of the most expensive areas of England. Harrogate knows nothing of social problems and such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.232.203 (talk) 13:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Harrogate knows nothing of social problems. Christ! What illusion are you under. I know such things are relative, but every town has it's areas. Granted the riots sounds rubbish although I do remember the shootings on Look North. User:Mtaylor848

I'm beginning to think the whole suburbs section should be trimmed significantly, there's no way of knowing what the author actually means by "middle class" and "working class" but since I've just seen some fantasyland statements about how certain areas of the town are "rough", I suspect it may be a bit over-exaggerated. How do we even verify whether an area is "predominantly working class"? - Zeibura (Talk) 18:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Zeibura. The whole suburbs section does seem to be some sort of Harrogate fantasy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.177.185 (talk) 00:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I also agree. Harrogate does not have any 'rough' areas like you would find in many of Britains towns and cities. Social problems are minor in Harrogate, and even it's poorest suburbs are still pretty middle-class. The suburbs section has been expanded so much because of the note at the top I expect. Perhaps it should be removed, particularly considering all of Harrogate's suburbs are covered? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.254.252 (talk) 23:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Population figure
The population figure quoted in the article is for the Harrogate local authority which is the whole borough and not just for the town. The figure in this article should just cover the town the higher figure should apply to the Harrogate (borough) article. Keith D (talk) 23:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that in the UK, statistics aren't produced for each town, but for the boroughs. So any population for Harrogate town is basically just a guess or estminate. The population can't be much lower than 150,000 though; Harrogate Borough is large but it's nearly all rural. Ripon is the only other settlement of any significance. At a guess I would say Harrogate has a population of around 110,000-120,000 but it's anyones guess. It's even harder to know when the last census was 2001, and Harrogate is not in a metropolitan county. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.254.252 (talk) 23:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This needs to be qualified in the article because as it stands it is not clear and is misleading. The 2001 population can be worked out by subtracting each of the civil parish figures from the borough total. That should leave the unparished Harrogate town area. Keith D (talk) 23:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I would doubt the town population would be over 10,000, to put this in persepctive the population of Halifax has a population of 82,056, Darlington of 97,938, Wakefield of 76, 866, all of which are a fair margin larger then Harrogate. There are several other towns to subtract, Ripon (about 25,000), Knaresborough (about 15,000), Pately Bridge (about 4,000), Boroughbridge (about 7,000) etc, as well as the god known how many village parishes. Mtaylor848 (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

10,000!? Are you joking? Harrogate is far larger than Halifax to start with. You've quoted Ripon at 25,000 and Harrogate is at least triple the size of Ripon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.243.9 (talk) 16:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Simply Harrogate
I was looking to add SimplyHarrogate.com to the external links section on the Harrogate page, but an editor has removed the link.

SimplyHarrogate.com has been going almost five years now and unlike most dirctory sites it provides free links to the websites of any business in Harrogate, making it a good old comprehensive source when searching for restaurants, estate agents etc in the town. You also don't just get an address and phone number with website links only for the one or two companies that have paid.

I would invite another editor to repost the link if they too feel it would be a worth while addition and resource.

Allianceredfox (talk) 19:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a web directory for business. If people wish to locate Harrogate businesses they ought to use a search engine. You'll notice that featured articles like Sheffield do not link to commercial web sites such as your own and I don't believe it would be right to start doing so here. I wish you good luck promoting your business elsewhere. --Richardob (talk) 23:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Population
The population of Harrogate is 158,000, this is misleading. This is for the Harrogate area, both figures should be given as they are for Leeds. In reality the population of Harrogate is about 50/60K. Mtaylor848 (talk) 23:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Karl Marx
Karl Marx (qv) came to Harrogate for three weeks in November 1873. He'd been researching at the British Museum in London, fell ill (again) and was advised to take the waters at this then famous spa town. He stayed at the Swan Inn with his daughter, ran out of money (again) and had to write to his friend and backer Engels for more. It's alleged that Engels sent him a packet of five pound notes cut in half, promising to send the matching parts when Marx sent him a receipt. Anyone who knows this genteel town would be amused by the presence of Marx.

Places of worship
Does anyone else see the need for a list of places of worship. I have removed it once, but someone seems intent on putting it back (an unregistered user). No other pages on towns produce long and irrelevent lists of buildings in the town on the main page. I would say that this section, coupled with the several images of churches, over emphisises the section on 'religion', which only warrents a short section (any more should be spun off into a satalite page). If there is no impassioned defence for it, I shall trim the section down and remove the list. Mtaylor848 (talk) 12:18, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * As the list exists then I would spin it out into another list page as per List of churches in Greater Manchester rather than just delete it. Keith D (talk) 13:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Kursaal
Can someone sort out the link please - not the Dr Who connection. Jackiespeel (talk) 16:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have sent link to wikidictionary entry as we have no suitable article here. Keith D (talk) 23:53, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Is this a bad joke?
In the article it says: Harrogate is Britain's capital for online pornography downloads. However, the reference doesn't say anything like that, does it? Am I blind? --Dionysos1988 (talk) 16:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * All I can see the article says is "Take a bow Harrogate, which, according to the research conducted for this programme, is Britain's capital of online porn consumption." Depends if you can equate downloads to consumption. Keith D (talk) 22:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In my view, it has to be definitely indicated that it is the newspaper who says that, because there's no further reference of it. I think it is a mistake just to accept statements like these uncritically. --Dionysos1988 (talk) 17:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The fact is true- it was revealed on the BBC's 'Virtual Revolution' programme that was aired earlier in the year as part of the 'Superpower' series. After it, the Harrogate Advertiser ran a short story. I don't know where the BBC got their information from but it revealed quite a few internet facts about places in the UK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.13.224.48 (talk) 17:23, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion such a serious accusation should be absolutely verified. If there was a show that aired there is corroboration. This should not be hard to verify and use as a good reference and as a protection to Wikipedia. I also read the vague reference that, as written, is slander which is, "Take a bow Harrogate,  which, according to the research conducted for this programme, is Britain's   capital of online porn consumption.". This is a clear violation of Wikipedia policy to use as is. The "fact" may be true but but as I understand the policy it can not be assumed as fact by vague references (even if a reliable source) and ascertainment by an unsigned editor. I am going to take this out until such time that it can be properly sourced and referenced since it is "true" thus fact. Otr500 (talk) 20:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry to be a pedant but if it is written is is libellous, only when it is spoken is it slanderous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivor Pencil (talk • contribs) 13:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Twin cities
Wellington? Any reference? This is not present in the Wellington article, so if you have any reference, please edit the Wellington article accordingly. 89.224.77.117 (talk) 05:38, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

According to Harrogate has "sister city" relationships with Wellington and Harrogate, Tennessee but a full-on twinning with Luchon. Redcliffe maven (talk) 08:16, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Which "Saint Robert" is St. Robert's Church dedicated to?
I've been trying to find which of the saints named Robert the Roman Catholic church of St. Robert's is named after.

It is almost certainly Robert of Knaresborough, but I can't find a single reliable source that would say so.

I would be very grateful if someone could point me towards a quote from an authoritative book or the Church's dedicatory documents or anything of that sort. Even a guide book entry would do for the time being.

Thanks in advance!

Primaler (talk) 20:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070710210310/http://www.harrogateinternationalcentre.co.uk:80/pdf/Visitor%20Stats%20HIC%20&District2005_2006.pdf to http://www.harrogateinternationalcentre.co.uk/pdf/Visitor%20Stats%20HIC%20&District2005_2006.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100102201026/http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk:80/2004/5/14/52376.html to http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2004/5/14/52376.html

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 17:12, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

School merge
I have suggested on Western Primary School that it should be merged to here, as it is a non-notable primary, as per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. Any comments gratefully received.CalzGuy (talk) 11:32, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090402072348/http://www.harrogate.gov.uk/immediacy-995 to http://www.harrogate.gov.uk/immediacy-995
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090504215039/http://www.harrogatetrains.co.uk/ to http://www.harrogatetrains.co.uk/
 * Added tag to http://archive.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/2003/4/7/96994.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140422152653/http://www.hdft.nhs.uk/about-us/news/cancer-survey/ to http://www.hdft.nhs.uk/about-us/news/cancer-survey/

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051208085156/http://www.harrogate.co.uk/harrogate-band/hbhist5.htm to http://www.harrogate.co.uk/harrogate-band/hbhist5.htm
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bands listed in notable people section
Is there some justification for listing bands in the notable people section ? User:SovalValtos removed bands from this list last year  and I agree that bands should not be included. I also don't think it is appropriate to include a link to Bands_and_musicians_from_Yorkshire_and_North_East_England in the Notable people instead, just as it is not appropriate to link to any other list of notable groups. If the band members are individually notable and connected to the town then they should be listed individually. If a notable musical group has a reliably sourced connection to the town then it should probably be listed in the Culture section. Meters (talk) 21:40, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * It's the norm on Wikipedia to include bands in the notable people sections, it's has been for years. The only other way they're implemented is within a sub-division of Culture, usually labelled "music" but that division isn't present on this page. Issan Sumisu (talk) 05:47, 14 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Please provide a link to a discussion where it has been decided that musical groups have the extraordinary property of being considered people for lists (unlike other groups of people with a connection to a town such as, say, sports teams from a town, companies from a town, or schools in a town). Otherwise this is just WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, as I said on your talk page. I can assure you that musical groups are not allowed as entries on all lists of people, in the notable alumni lists in the schools project, for example.  As I pointed out, some musical groups were removed form this list more than six months ago, and that removal has not been contested. What's special about the three groups  now under discussion, other than the fact that they happen to have been added by the user restoring them ?


 * There hasn't been a discussion on this because it's been the norm for years, but do what ever you want to do I guess, I won't revert you. Issan Sumisu (talk) 06:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Urban Area Merge proposal
I propose merging Harrogate Built-up area into this article. It fails WP:GEOLAND and can be covered here. Eopsid (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Support The sources don't support a standalone article. No WP:SIGCOV.Pontificalibus 06:52, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Turkish Baths
I understand that Harrogate has the best preserved turkish baths in the UK, and yet there is no section on this facility in this article. FreeFlow99 (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Removal of Company
I have removed a sausage company from the list of Comanies associated with the town as they have no link to Harrogate. Their inclusion was an obvious marketing tool. 146.200.132.68 (talk) 06:47, 21 April 2024 (UTC)