Talk:Harry M. Rubin

New Issues
User talk:IvoryTower731, please provide sources which actually support the changes you are making. Yes, you HAVE sources, but they don't support what you're saying. For example, he may be the head of his co-op board, but, the source you added doesn't support that. It's just the streeteasy page for his purported building. Another example is the title you gave him re: GE/RCA. Yes, again there are sources (which I think I might have added years ago, but can't recall), but they don't support the title you added. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 13:48, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm restoring my edits. The majority of the new content comes from the Atari, Inc. page which gives an in-depth history of GT Interactive. The content previously provided seems to be majorily from you and demonstrates serious POV issues. The Atari, Inc. page is well sourced and I recommend you read it before editing any further. Lastly, please don't remove sourced content sweetheart. Also, try and read sources and text in general more carefully. It will serve you well. Kisses. IvoryTower731 (talk) 15:26, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Please note which portions of text you define as "puffery". For your reference, the majority of the new content is directly from the Atari, Inc. page. If you have an issue with the phrasing of the content I recommend you review the Atari article and see what editors have concluded about the quality/legitimacy of the claims.IvoryTower731 (talk) 16:19, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Neutrality, etc.
The article is replete with NPOV violations and poorly sourced claims. Notability is questionable.

This article is improving, however, it continues to suffer from bad faith deletions. Much of its basic information continues to be unsourced, such as where Rubin was born and where he grew up. Again, as noted, tags cannot be summarily deleted. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 03:26, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've left a warning at User talk:ElectronicArtsAdvisor. I don't think there's enough here to ask for protection from IP editing, for instance. But there are things here to keep an eye on, for instance the edits made by User:GiantGerken, whom you've left a note, and who's also an editor on C. M. Rubin. The list of contributions to this article shows a lot of SPA editors, it appears, and I wonder if there's socking going on. Drmies (talk) 18:25, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd agree. As I've suggested in some of my edits, it appears these pages were created by the subjects themselves, or people close to them, perhaps business associates and/or family members.
 * The accounts are all blocked as abusive sockpuppets. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 18:16, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Compensation
A few issues on compensation. As threshold matter, query whether five year old compensation data is really relevant. Assuming, arguendo, that it is, this number includes $2.25 million in severance, which is somewhat misleading, since the reader would have to read to proxy to understand that his annual compensation was actually significantly below this number (~400,000k). In addition, whoever initially added the number specifically excluded the value of options. My math then is $362,250 + $33,000 + $2,294,349 = $2,689,599.

Even if we decide to include the options (as another editor suggested, but excluding any SES or BBC options), we should think about how we do it since including them could also be misleading. He received 75k in 2005, but, because he retired that year with "good reason" (perhaps due to the unsubstantiated, but likely true, illness, he is said to have), he not only didn't have to forfeit his previous options grants, but, instead, all of them vested. In other words, from a compensation perspective, 2005 was a high watermark year for Rubin, at Atari. If we're going to include all severance related comp and options activity, we should be clear about it. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 16:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Sourcing
I'm still having difficulty fact-checking a number of the statements contained in this biography. The only prevalent source of information on this person is the official biography that he uses with SES and presumably which he provided to them. In my view, this makes it tantamount to a primary source. This bio and wikipedia page itself, have perpetuated themselves throughout the internet by copycat sites.

In terms of solid, secondary source information, there's actually very little. Nowhere on the Wiki, the internet generally, and the NY Times archive specifically, can I find anything regarding his role in "creating" the A&E Network, which was really just a merger of two other flailing networks anyway. I can't find anything to substantiate his titles at RCA, GE, etc. Even his own bio says just that he "held various senior financial and general management positions" at these firms. The closest I've come to substantiating any sort of role at RCA is a 1983 NY Times article which indicated that he had been appointed "staff vice president, strategic planning and video coordination." Similarly, I can find nothing to support his being an "apprentice" to Herb Schlosser. Not a single article on the internet seems to support a connection. I've searched multiple combinations of "Harry Rubin and Herb Schlosser", "Harry M. Rubin and Herb Schlosser", "Harry Rubin and Herbert Schlosser", etc, etc. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the author, I assume it's a true statement, but, nonetheless, there is nothing to support it.

I'm also having difficulty establishing his role at Boston Beer Company/Sam Adams. In this article, Rubin is portrayed as the financial guru, in contrast to Koch's salesmanship (poor Lorenzo Lamadrid gets no attention at all!). However, in searching 1) the internet, 2) Boston Beer Company's website, and 3) the Boston Beer Company's regulatory filings with the SEC, going back to 1996 (their original offering document from the 1995 isn't available), and 4) the NY Times archive, I find virtually no credible sources to associate him with the firm. Most internet references to "Rubin, Koch and Lamadrid", are just the same Sam Adams history perpetuating itself, not valid secondary sources of information. His own bio only describes his as being a "founding" partner. Assuming that's true, he doesn't describe himself as the firm's financial guru or anything else, other than a founder (which I agree, is important). However, his role there is quite unclear.

Does anyone have any insights? ButtonwoodTree (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Boston Beer Company/Sam Adams
I have conducted an exhaustive search and can't find any basis for this claim other than 1) biographical information disseminated by the subject himself, 2) other websites using Wiki info by license, and 3) some late Form 4 filings. Looking at the oldest public filings I can find for the company, neither Rubin nor Lamadrid are mentioned at all.  Koch is described as the founder and Kallman is described as a co-founder.  FundingUniverse supports these facts.  Early on, Koch owned approximately 33% of the firm and another collective group of investors owned approximately same amount.  Rubin and Lamadrid may have been in this group, but, this seems speculative, and in any event, doesn't suggest any role at the company whatsoever, beyond having made a seed investment, which, if large enough, could have been the source of the shares which were the subject of the Form 4 filings. Any support to the contrary would be appreciated. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 May 2012
Please add residence as "Manhattan, New York" because that is where he lives and he can therefore be added to the wikipedia page in which businessmen from New York are listed. Please add religion as "Jewish" because that is his religion and he can therefore be added to the wikipedia page in which Jewish businessmen are listed. Please add children as "2" because after looking through other pages, many businessmen list the amount of children, for example: John Paulson. I recommend (just so the page is up to date and cohesive) that his salary from 2005 be removed. I cannot find one other businessman who has a salary from 7 years ago listed on his page. I believe you state on his page that he is retired.

RandolfoRangel (talk) 17:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC) Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mdann52 (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Sock. . . .here we go again??
RandolfoRangel, are you another RabidMelon, RubinAttorney, et. al. sock puppet? New account, created today, with a single edit to the Rubin page, writing in the same style as RabidMelon. I'm ignoring the bizarre coincidence of mentioning John Paulson who was in a much earlier version of the Rubin article, which indicated that Rubin was one of Paulson's largest investors. Sock or not, in any event, we would need sources for 1) residence, 2) his religion, and 3) number of children. I'd tend to agree that salary info from 2005 is pretty stale, although as one of the most significant businessmen in entertainment history we should probably detail his compensation somewhere.  ButtonwoodTree (talk) 02:39, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Attitude? Much.
I really don't know what I did to you for you to be so rude. Why is this account new? Because this is my first time using Wikipedia! I thought you'd pick up on that considering you are such a well-renowned Wikipedia editor who will one day be deserving of Wikipedia article himself. I mean you did so much with your life! I'm jealous if you can't tell - don't tell anyone! The number of children and alternate residence can be found on C. M. Rubin's "about me" section of her website. Religion doesn't need a citation. I can point you to several other pages where religion isn't cited, one of these pages is John Paulson's. My view on his salary remains the same from my last post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RandolfoRangel (talk • contribs) 16:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Another citation
http://www.chron.com/news/article/BW-Synthesis-Energy-Systems-Inc-Appoints-1581708.php This citation can replace "citation needed" as it affirms that he is a founding partner of Samuel Adams (beer).

End Game
I'm not particularly interested in another edit war and think we should focus on constructive changes. I believe my actions with respect to POV editing speak for themselves and do not indicate a "bias or vendetta", as you put it. Obviously my "one of the most significant businessmen in entertainment history" was a bit snarky, but it seems obvious to me that you're a sock. If I'm wrong, apologies.

In any event, I'd agree to remove the stale salary information. Regarding religion, family, etc., as I noted a long time ago, the SES bio is essentially a primary source since he either wrote it himself or provided the data necessary to write it, to the company. To me the question is 1) does he have any liability as a director under the '34 Act to have an accurate bio and if so, 2) for Wiki purposes, does that liability alter the fundamental presumption of bias inherent in primary sources. It's an interesting point and I'm willing to investigate it further. Obviously his wife's website is clearly a primary source. ButtonwoodTree (talk) 17:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Primary sources and other thing
I'm not sure how the website could not be taken a viable source. Why would someone lie about how many children they have? And as for your sock comment, I'm not sure if it's supposed to be derogatory or an insult at my writing, but whatever it is I'm no "sock". The link I provided is an article not a biography. I provided it as a possible citation for the "citation needed" footnote next to the Samuel Adams statement. RandolfoRangel (talk) 18:11, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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