Talk:Harry Yount

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Problems with article (earlier version)
This article seems to have some factual errors, and relies on just one source. I am re-writing the article using William Supernaugh's well referenced article on Yount's life as the primary source, and using a variety of other sources as well. Cullen328 (talk) 20:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Rewrite completed I added a total rewrite of the article on December 13, 2010. Cullen328 (talk)

Pre-GA review
asked me to take a look at this article in preparation for a GA nomination, so here are my observations:

Lead
 * The lead to be expanded so as to better summarise the article. Probably needs to be about three times its current length, covering the main point(s) from each of the major sections.

Date and place of birth
 * "He was the tenth child born to his father". Children are usually born to a mother. Do we not know who Harry's mother was?

Civil War military service
 * The caption under the painting of the Battle of Pea Ridge says that Yount was captured during that battle, but the text to the right says he was captured in a skirmish before the battle.

Hunter and trapper
 * "Yount also had some success as a prospector." What did he prospect for? Gold?

Gamekeeper in Yellowstone National Park
 * We're told twice, in two separate quotations, that Yount recommended that no one man could patrol the park, which seems like unnecessary redundancy. I'd suggest dropping the "... and concluded that protection of the park 'cannot be done by any one man immediately before the first quotation.

First National Park Ranger
 * "Stephen Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, wrote the forward to this book". Presumably this should be "foreword", not "forward"?

Homesteader and prospector
 * "After he resigned from his job in Yellowstone, Yount lived for a while in a community called Uva in Laramie County, Wyoming." That seems unnecessarily prolix; why not just "lived for a while in Uva in Laramie County, Wyoming"?


 * "He homesteaded in the area in 1887". Is there a convenient wikilink for "homesteading"? Those of us fortunate enough to live in God's own land may well have very little idea what homesteading means. Did he, for instance build a home in the area in 1887, having until then lived a tent?


 * You really need to provide at least one citation for this section.

Malleus Fatuorum 15:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Malleus/Eric, thank you very much for your comments. It has taken me some time to do the work. I believe that I have made all the improvements that you suggested, and more, and accordingly have nominated this article for Good article. I also want to thank User:Rosiestep for a face to face review at an Edit-a-thon in San Francisco yesterday. Your input is also appreciated.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  06:23, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Informal review
In response to the request on my talk page, I'd like to offer the following comments on this article:
 * Some sentences are a bit lengthy
 * "Harry Yount's father, David Yount, was about 44 years old at the time of Harry's birth, and Harry was the couple's tenth child" - not covered by a reference
 * Added Supernaugh as a reference for this. He discusses it in a footnote. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "These records also show that his legal name was Henry S. Yount. His lifelong nickname was "Harry", and his middle name is unknown" - ditto
 * Added Supernaugh as a reference for this. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The para starting with "Although Yount's place of birth is uncertain" also needs one or more references
 * Added Supernaugh as the source for this. He is the only writer, to my knowledge, to discuss the contradictions in the early sources. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "served in Company F of Phelps' Regiment of the Missouri Infantry. John Phelps, his commanding general, was an ardent abolitionist" - if Phelps was a regimental commander, he probably wouldn't have been a general. Do his views on abolition need to be in this article?
 * Because of the need to expand the Union Army rapidly and radically during the Civil War, general officer commissions were far more common than in normal conditions. One indicator is that we have 712 Wikipedia articles about Union Army generals during a four year war, compared to a total of about 2200 biographies of generals during the entire history of the U.S. Phelps was a career officer of the U.S. Army with combat service in the Mexican-American War who retired in 1859. It was common to offer such men a general's commission to induce them to return to the army during the nation's greatest crisis. Phelps became a brigadier general in 1861, shortly after returning to the army. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I mentioned his abolitionism because he was considered an extreme radical in favor of the rights of African-Americans during the time that Yount served under his command. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * There's also unreferenced material in the 'Guide for the Hayden Geological Survey' section
 * The article hints at Yount becoming a renowned figure over the 1870s and 1880s, but never states this. For instance, why was he selected to be the gamekeeper of Yellowstone National Park and granted what seems a high salary?
 * I have not read anything that indicates he was a celebrity or a "renowned figure". He didn't write anything other than his government reports. He didn't do speaking tours or shooting exhibits or wild west shows. He climbed the ladder from Civil War soldier with several promotions, to supply wagon teamster in Plains Indian war territory, to working as a guide for the Department of the Interior during the Hayden mapping expeditions in the Rocky Mountains for seven years, to supplier of taxidermy specimens to the Smithsonian. All while working as a professional hunter in the off season. At that time, Supernaugh concludes he must have been well-known in the Department of the Interior bureaucracy. So, he had the qualifications, the skills, the intelligence, the discipline and the Civil War political connections to be considered the best man for the job. He had some write-ups in the popular press, but I do not think he was a celebrity.<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  03:27, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "Stephen Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, wrote the foreword of the book." needs a reference. Also, is this relevant?
 * Wouldn't the book itself be the reference? The relevance, as I see it, is that the first two directors of the National Park Service joined in this book venture which praised Yount and thereby created his ongoing reputation within the NPS. So, he became a "mini celebrity" in the National Park community four years after his death. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  03:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest merging the 'Recognition as first National Park ranger' section with the previous section (one para sections are best avoided)
 * "but his claim was sold in a sheriff's sale in 1892" - what does this mean (had he abandoned it, gone bankrupt, etc?)
 * Can more be said about the last 40-odd years of Yount's life?
 * Can anything more be said about Yount's legacy? Have historians, etc, commented on this? Does he have any kind of public profile, or is he little-known?
 * Please provide specific page numbers for each citation which currently form part of references 3 and 4. Blocks of page numbers for multiple references make it difficult for readers to find the source for a fact.
 * The sources all appear reliable, and the photos are all appropriately licenced and PD. Nick-D (talk) 00:55, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I will get to work on those items. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  01:24, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No worries. Given that Yount fought in the Civil War and later supplied the US Army, this would be within the scope of the Military History Wikiproject's A-class review process if you'd like a further pre-FAC assessment. Nick-D (talk) 02:03, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Seeking input
My thanks again to for the detailed critique and  for words of encouragement. Thanks also to the editor who assisted so graciously and thoughtfully during the GA review, years ago, and who has offered other positive comments much more recently. I apologize for putting this project on the back burner for a while, but it would be nice to improve it to FA standards now. I have made some minor preliminary improvements. I have responded to most if not all of the comments in Nick-D's preliminary review. I will work more on that tomorrow. I would be very grateful for any constructive criticism, especially the easily actionable items, but I will certainly take major issues to heart. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  04:38, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Wrong John Phelps
- I'm not convinced that the link to John W. Phelps is correct. John W. Phelps didn't have anything to do with the Missouri regiment or Pea Ridge, while John S. Phelps seems to be who should be referred to here. Hog Farm Talk 18:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, . You are right and I have made the correction. Thank you. Cullen328 (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Cullen, I also suspect that may be better phrased as  - Shea & Hess's Pea Ridge: Civil War Campaign in the West refers to Phelps as a colonel at the time of Pea Ridge. Hog Farm Talk 23:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)