Talk:Hasekura Tsunenaga/Archive 2

Congrats on Main page appearance
I would suggest adding a few additional wikilinks, either in text or in the See Also section (such as Manila Galleons), and making a few minor clarifications (such as clarifying that Andrés de Urdaneta was a navigator and not a captain). However, I am reluctant to make any changes without getting reactions from people first. The changes would be minor and clarifying. NorCalHistory 17:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope the clarifications I added in the first paragraph of the Background section are acceptable. NorCalHistory 19:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think any minor clarifications and improvement are fine as long as they don't significantly impact the article or make any big changes in meaning or intent. The changes you've made so far are good, so tweak away! ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 22:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I believe I'm about done. In any event, I don't expect to make any changes while the article's on the Main page.  You're going to have your hands full with vandalism I expect!  Congrats again. NorCalHistory 22:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Curious, I had literally just been looking over this article when Wednesday became Thursday, having read it out of interest in relations between France and Japan. I finish, return to the main page and whose face should be staring back at me? Well done everyone, it's a very good article.

What a beautiful article! Congratulations to the authors! --Uncertain 15:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it policy to copy protect featured articles? This article seesm to have been hit by vandals... I replaced it with the last sane version. Paladinwannabe2 16:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Great article guys, applause for you

-Fco

Great article, fascinating subject! Well done. Cop 633 22:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Great work. I may have some more pictures from Seville Municipal Archive. If I get a chance I will add these today. Someone with more time, may want to take care of expanding the Coria del Río stub too. Asterion talk 22:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool! I look forward to seeing your pictures. --Iustinus 05:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

-PLEASE ADD THAT THERE ARE 900 PEOPLE SURNAMED JAPON IN SPAIN DESCENDANTS FROM THOSE JAPANESE PEOPLE WHO ARRIVED AND STAYED IN CORIA DEL RIO (SEVILLA)!!! DONT DELETE INFORMATION THAT ENRICHES YOUR ARTICLE.


 * Cool, man. It is already there in the "Hasekura today" paragraph. PHG 17:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Nueva España/New Spain
I do suggest picking just one of these two variations, and using only that one variation throughout the article. At this point, "Nueva España" is most often used in the text, while "New Spain" is used in the section heading and in the lists. I believe that "New Spain" is probably more familiar and understandable to English-speaking readers, and I would suggest that variation; either way, I do suggest conforming to all one variation or the other throughout. NorCalHistory 01:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Main Page
Yay! I'm so pleased to see this article on the front page. Congratulations, PHG, and everyone else who worked on this! --Iustinus 01:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Joate
I reiterate the comment I made before (now archived):
 * "The Japanese ambassador Hasekura Rokuemon, sent by Joate Masamune, king of Boju, ..."

Surely Joate must be an error fro Idate. --Iustinus 01:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * An error on whose part? The text is in a quoted passage. If it's part of the historical document being quoted, that's one thing; if it's a modern transcription error, that's another. Fg2 01:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming it's a transcription error. Of course I don't have access to the original. But Date Masamune is refered to as Idate in all the other period sources, and Jo is a perfectly believable misreading of Id, especially if the letters are at all stylized. --Iustinus 02:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It is Joate in the Spanish original, a phonetic deformation of Idate, as often happened with the approximate rendering of foreign names at that time. Regards. PHG 06:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If it's in the original it's in the original. But I have a hard time believing this is a phonetic deformation, and not a graphic one. [idate] and [ʒoate] sound nothing alike, and most European transcriptions of Japanese names were not that bad. --Iustinus 06:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess what I'm saying is that this looks to me more like the same sort of error as " Philippo Francisco Faxecura Retuyemon" on page one of Sotelo (currently in footnote five), which is clearly a printer's error. When I encountered that, I marked it with a [sic] in the Latin, and silently corrected it in the English. --Iustinus 06:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent vandalism?
I've just noticed the number of times this page keeps getting wiped and completely replaced by anonymous users. Has it always been so commonplace that Featured Articles on the main page get vandalised as often as this one has? --Kw33hki11 15:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 16:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone has defaced this article:

"European monarchs such as the King of Spain thus refused the trade agreements Hasekura had been seeking. Hasekura returned to Japan in 186 B.C. and died of AIDS a year later, his embassy seemingly ending with few testicles in an increasingly isolationist Japan, who got nuked."

Just anted to point that out...

I believe it has to do with it being a featured article. Generally if a featured article gets put on the front page - that it just screams to be vandalized over and over all day. It is really too bad, but people are on top of it fortunatly. --Tickkid 18:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I keep having visions of coming to check all the edits that have been done at the end of the day, and having it say "(3,141 intermediate revisions not shown.)" --Iustinus 19:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

EEEEEUGH!!!! You know, I had managed to avoid seeing the infamous "tubgirl" pic for SO LONG, and then some lameass vandal pwns me. vandals suck. --Iustinus 23:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 *  I feel for you. Would you like to borrow my mind soap? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 23:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, mind soap... now that's an article that needs to be written ;) --Iustinus 23:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if James Clavell
Did James Clavell ever write about Hasekura Tsunenaga in any of his Asia Books? Maybe in Nobel House? I know Nobel House take place in the time Frame of his life. Just wondering I agree this is one of the better articles I have read on Wikipedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rnoonan63 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Coat of arms and Crown
The commentary under the picture of Tsunenaga's arms speaks of a royal crown. A royal crown in Spain and the Italian lands had arches around this period. Tsunenaga was obviously not a royal prince. The crown looks more like the crown of a Spanish or Italian noble to me. I'll remove the "royal" reference.Gerard von Hebel 20:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Toward vs. Towards
Um, I don't particularly care whether we go with "toward" or "towards", but it is absurd to say that towards is "not a word" or a "common colloquial mistake." Neither the AHD (link), nor the OED (link, requires subscription) condemn this form. The OED lists both in separate entries, without commenting on usage, but citing uses of BOTH forms of the word back to the nineth century. The AHD says "Some critics have tried to discern a semantic distinction between toward and towards, but the difference is entirely dialectal. Toward is more common in American English; towards is the predominant form in British English." One of the OED quotes, from 1749, says "The vulgar man goes to wards and not towards such a place", which shows that even a stickler complaining about other people's usage may say "towards". --Iustinus 00:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Whew
Well, we're now off the front page. Time to pop the champagne! Congratulations to everyone who worked on this article, and a huge thanks to those who held it together against all those vandals! --Iustinus 00:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Italian City Names
Wonderful article! Interesting topic. Just a side note, I noticed that some of the Italian cities listed as having been visited in the "Timeline and itinerary" section are listed under their Italian names while others are listed under their English names. Unless that was done for a specific reason, you might want to consider going with either one way or the other.

This is a copy of how the page shows now:


 * Napoli
 * Rome
 * Firenze
 * Venice
 * Firenze
 * Livorno, by ship to Genoa
 * Genoa

The possible changes would be: Naples in English, Roma in Italian, Florence in English, Venezia in Italian, Livorno is the same in both languages, and Genova in Italian.

Best regards, Kealakekua 01:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Livorno USED to be Leghorn, but I guess that's too obscure now, and makes people think of certain cartoon characters. There;s been a tendency in our era to discard traditional English names for more accurate foreign ones, but cities like Rome and Venice tend to resist more strongly than Livorno and Firenze. Still, it is true that this list is a bit strange in its choices. --Iustinus 05:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

On the authenticy of the picture used in the article
In the article, There is a picture titled "Hasekura's embassy to the Pope in Rome in 1615" and that was painted in the 17th century. I wonder if there is any proof that this is the contemporary work of Hasekura Tsunenaga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.127.83.66 (talk) 11:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

minor notes
1) Probably because of vandalism, some type sizes and fonts in headings are inconsistent, e.g, the 1610 and 1612 entries.

2) The main organization is geographic; therefore I wonder whether "Political Intrigues" should be a subheading. Its contents all fit within Italy.

3) I changed "object" to "subject" in the first line of "Western publications" to be more idiomatic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.75.135 (talk) 08:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Query about a source never mentioned
About 20 years ago I rented a Japanese movie from Blockbuster. It was an epic historical drama based on the diplomat ship story and the replica ship in Ishibonuko was featured in it. That was the first time I had ever heard the story. I never see that movie mentioned anywhere and I've been trying to find it again ever since. I don't remember the name of it. I've even visited the ship since then. Does anybody know the name of the movie and is it still available anywere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vasa2 (talk • contribs) 19:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Roman Senate?
In the article the Latin phrase "Romanam Curiam" in Soleto's account is translated as "Roman Senate". "Curiam" can mean "senate" or "court (royal/papal)". Doesn't "Roman Court" make a better translation? DHN (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps simpler, Roman Curia, which is already in use in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Curia Greenbough (talk) 19:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

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