Talk:Hash House Harriers

Removal of Slang Terms
Wanted to point out the major change of removing the glossary of terms. While I don't agree with the editor's comment ("Wikipedia is NOT a dictionary of slang of some social group." Also, "Nobody cares." Professional.) I'm in favor of leaving it deleted, as it's an unwieldy list and prone to disagreements. Additionally, there's a lot of slang in the article itself, so a standalone section seems superfluous. Basseq (talk) 19:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

User:Rmtrmtho
I reverted edits by this user again; he keeps adding the same sentence to the beginning of the history section that repeats information mentioned later. It simply doesn't make sense the way he writes it. If he wants to rewrite the entire history section, that's fine, but he needs to do a thorough job. However, I think these edits are less editorial and more of a sleight of hand to cover his link spamming. He seems to be associated with Maliboro HHH, since he keeps spamming this page with links. (It's become informal policy on this page not to link or mention specific kennels.) Basseq (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Sensitive Content
I have re-added in a more mature manner some important caveats / warnings to those who are learning about Hashing from this valuable educational tool. The purpose of these tools is to provide honest and complete information about the subjects, not to dress the dog and pretend Hashing is virtually a family event. It is important to recognize that all 'kennels' are not as wild as others. For those who may have an alcohol problem or tendancy towards one it is critical that we do not destroy their lives for our enjoyment.

My personal experience with Hashing is extensive and global. I have finally removed myself from the club and have started on an alcoholism recovery program. Hashers work very hard to hide the extensive decadence that makes Hashing the sophmoric activity it is. Sex and alcohol play major roles in Hashing and normal behavioral 'rules' are deliberately cast aside at Hashes. In many more than a few Hashes 'uncomplicated sex' has followed the drinking and risque behavior. Often between two members who 'hit it off' at the Down-Down, but ocassionally on a much grander scale. The reality is Hashing has destroyed many relationships because of the 'lapse' of thinking in the 'mob' environment that comes with these high energy gatherings. We all now how these events often erupt is joyous decadence, the wost instance I experienced degraded into a virtual strip club and orgy. Of course I thought it was great fun at the time, but the next day found both my wife and I having violated each others trust and severely damaging ou relationship. As a result, it is my belief that we must begin to be truthful so that innicent 'virgins' are not pulled into something they will regret, as I do, for the rest of their lives. For those who have no problems with raucus behavior Hashing is nirvana, but we must be truthful with others and ourselves. Many of my Hashing friends are individuals whose careers require travel. The draw to Hashing is the high probability of finding some quick fun while on the road that no one will ever know about because of the use of aliases. This was the original intent of creating the Hashers names and the non-rule of not using real names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.30.107.85 (talk) 04:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

That sounds very much like POV to me and does not resonnate with my own experience. Your content by the way, looking at the history, was repetitive before it was removed (similar comments appeared in two sections).130.237.175.198 (talk) 12:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

So a few consenting adults have a beer, go for a run and a have sex. So what? --GSchjetne (talk) 09:41, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think this is overdoing things a bit. Sure, there can be some casual sex at hash gatherings but realistically, it's less than originates from nightclubs and single's bars.BarryNL (talk) 22:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the sexaspect should be mentioned. Most of us do not see sports THAT connected to sex. In some cases we are talking about partner-swapping stuff, right? My sister went with a colleague to a Has event and got really scared- - she thought she would get raped.Ok, maybe an extreme case BUT this SHOULD be mentioned. 64.203.182.109 (talk) 15:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Finally someone is speaking the truth about the hash. For those people trying to say it is just a lot of professionals, married people, old and young just out for a run and harmless drinks afterwards, they are covering up the reality. Not only do I know this from my own personal experience and a spouse that cheated with not one but at least two other married hashers, but also because the counselor I saw during recovery she has worked with many former hashers who are trying to save their marriages after getting caught up in the inevitable affairs that happen during the hash. Drinking, dirty names, drinking, sex jokes and songs, more drinking, flirting, casual sex, etc. are all part of the hash. If that's what you are looking for then the hash is for you. However, if you are a spouse of a hasher and they are telling you it's all harmless fun, you might want to ask more questions and investigate a little further.


 * I have been Hashing for well over 37 years (since I was born), and although I have heard of these things happening, this is making it sound like it is the core of the Hashing community. It isn't. While there are communities of Hashes that do promote sex, it is a small part of the Hash. With the Hash growing and attracting more and more people, these stories are becoming more frequent. That is why I pretty much only attend Mixed or Family Hashes. Stories like these are giving the Hash a terrible name. My sister, mother, and daughter are all Hashers and none of them have experienced what you're saying... and they are extensive Hashers. I myself have over 3,500 runs across multiple kennels globally under my name including 4 Interhashes. Tuckermcgaw (talk) 09:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Re-Written and Edited
I just rewrote this entire article. I removed links to any specific kennels to stop squabbling. My suggestion is not to link to any kennel, but rather to the multitude of reference pages on the web. I also removed the parts on 9/11 and anthrax, simply because it's not really important. I cleaned up wording and tried to make the article objective. It's hard to get away from weasel words for a topic such as this one where events, traditions, etc., really do differ from kennel to kennel. Basseq (talk) 21:23, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, I left the Articleissues, but they (hopefully) can now be removed. And I suggest we remove the Malaysia tag from this talk page because H3 really has little to do with Malaysia. Basseq (talk) 21:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed the article issues tag, which is perhaps a little presumptuous of me, since I had not come across this article before. However, Basseq's writing looks fine to me. It could do with a few more references, I guess. (Although that raises the general question of writing from personal knowledge - I am not clear how you acknowledge that under a heading for 'References' or 'Sources')
 * Incidentally, I ran with several hashes in the early to mid-80s (Taipei, Singapore, KL and Baghdad), and never heard the term 'kennel'. Is it new? Patche99z (talk) 16:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You hit the problem: most sources are anecdotal themselves. I don't know the etymology of the word 'kennel' in relation to HHH; I've not heard it used, personally, but it existed on the page previously. Obviously it's not used everywhere. Basseq (talk) 17:41, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Tim "Magic" Hughes used the word "kennel" in his World HHH Directories. My experience has been that American hashers don't like the term; I have no idea how popular it is elsewhere.  There's no way to pin it down, but I suspect the only reason other hashers use "kennel" is that Magic used it.  I know that's why I used it in my early writing about the hash.  "Club" never seemed like the right word to me, because it implies a level of organization and restricted membership that doesn't generally exist in hashing.  "Kennel" seemed looser, but over the years I've found myself replacing "kennel" with "chapter" or "group."  --Paul woodford (talk) 16:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I modified the "Variations" section. Use of the word "mimic" in the original (bicycle hashes mimic regular hashes) seemed somewhat belittling, so I rewrote the bullet about bicycle hashing in more neutral terms.  I changed "children hashes" to "family hashes," and included the term "Hash House Horrors" in the short bullet description.  --Paul woodford (talk) 16:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * While Magic did use the term Kennels, I believe it originates from Singapore H3. Any Hasher knows that it is the way you refer to the clubs themselves. We don't refer ourselves as Hounds for no reason after all. The earliest I know of was from a Trash in the 1950s. I used to have a scanned copy of it, but I cannot find it anymore. I know this because I was one of the first few people who started working on the Tumbling Bill's genealogy back (Interhash Cyprus 1996). This article needs a lot of work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckermcgaw (talk • contribs) 10:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I made some minor edits to correct inaccuracies and add proper details. G and the others were not Military officers assigned to Malaya, they were simply businessmen living and working in KL in 1938. Actually Torch did not even join the hash until July 1939. Also, all runs were on Friday prior to the war, they did not switch to Monday until 1946. I also removed Harrier.net as it no longer exists. --User:Hazukashii 15:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

United States Links
With the enormous list of hash houses within the United States, I'm suggesting a simple link to possibly http://www.half-mind.com/Contacts/usa_hash.htm (Half Mind) which to me has the most comprehensive list out there, I could be wrong. I've cleaned up the Hash House names and changed them to their corresponding cities instead since for example, the Washington D.C. area alone has nine kennels. Joshuawilliamson 14:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. with so many, a simple link to find the local kennels would be best, though some of the major groups such as DC, New Orleans, San Diego, etc might be left if they have a particularly well done and informative website. I've just added quite a bit of info about running trail and some of the traditions itself that I hope will help people understand the organization -mblitch


 * I've run into the issue of, for example Philadelphia, they have as far as I can tell, six kennels, but don't have one web site that I can find that links them all together besides their Penn State map, or displays just the Philadelphia one's, one that shows them all. So, someone from the "Ben Franklin mob" kennel is wanting to be represented on Wiki, understandably so, but are digressing from the other naming conventions by city. We all have ridiculously named Kennels(nothing wrong with that), but to name each one individually on the main Wiki page would take 20 pages. Thanks for your work.  I've put the word out to some of my message boards for people to put input on this.Joshuawilliamson 11:46,EST 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * If any hashes have their own Wikipedia pages, shouldn't we just have a separate page with a List of Hash Groups and have no external links to individual hashes, not even DC or San Diego. Aardhart 22:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hash club
Should Hash club redirect here? Aardhart 22:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
"With over 1700 groups in every major city in the world, it is now easier than ever for you to find fun, trail, and friendship where you live."

"Such problems can occur due to emergency calls made by the uninitiated that fail to use logic or knowledge when witnessing the activity. Police were once even called by someone claiming that people were running by and throwing cocaine on the ground!"

The above and other language in this article is both POV and unencylopedic. This article may need to be overhauled. I have deleted the above text, however I am neither knowledgeable nor interested in this subject, so I will leave major edits to other users. Cold Water 02:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * POV and unencylopedic?! This is Wikipedia...Wikipedia is nothing but unencylopedic POV

More on Neutrality
Descriptive text following certain links under Further Reading and International HHH Club Contact Information ("International Edition"; "Worldwide Hashing Information Portal") are promotional advertising and should be deleted. If no one objects, I will revisit the entry in a couple of days and delete the descriptive text.

The "Hare of the Dog" link (under Further Reading) connects to an advertising site, not a content site, and is of no use to anyone looking for freely available information on the Hash House Harriers. I have deleted this link.

Paul woodford 05:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I revisited the entry this morning and removed the advertising.

Paul woodford 15:23, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

POV
Hash Club should be removed or linked to Hash House Harriers. It appears only one author wrote the Hash Club. Cold Water, what changed is off of the subject and I agree unencyclopedic even though what really is. Joshuawilliamson 11:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"In Tokyo the hare on a Harriettes run was bundled in to a big black car by plain clothes officers. Several hours later he was found with a broom and pan sweeping up all the flour while guarded by two police officers" - this paragraph seems to have little to do with the impact of the 9/11 attacks

I feel there is a lot more that can be added to this page, the early history of the hash in Kuala Lumpur is, as far as I can see, inaccurate, and the popularity of the hash has not increased because of the Internet, but by regional and international publications sucb as Nagic's Harrier International, Robo's UK publication, Global Trash, and Higgins European magazine

I think the whole section of 'Impact of 911 attacks' should be removed. While a nice side note for some general hash knowledge, it really doesn't provide any critical or significant knowledge. One can mention in another section how some hashes use colored chalk or other products besides white flour due to security concerns in certain areas of the world/United States after anthrax scares in 2001. That would take a single sentence and make the readability much better. I also removed the section regarding 'how to get started' since the syntax and grammar were poor and difficult to read. Please take the time to critically go over what you write. Entire sections really are not needed when one or two sentences can convey the same information. Regarding the 'popularity of the hash and the internet', something like that seems quite subjective, and thus eligible for removal. I learned about hashing through a friend, but would likely not be nearly as involved if not through Internet lists and sites, however it doesn't men the internet itself made it more popular any more than magazines subscriptions for people (that are probably already likely hashers) makes a difference in itself. I'm going to remove that section and add something to share the same information. This article doesn't really benefit from sharing personal stories such as arguing with the police or being forced to clean up ones own trail. Aspects such as that are best shared on discussion forums and not encyclopedic entries. -mblitch

HHH Subject Too large for a Small Article with Limited Links
I believe this article has done a fairly good job, making a small article taking bits and pieces from various sites. However, trying to keep up with links of clubs would be a pretty impossible job here. I track over 1700 clubs and the clubs themselves put in 200-300 corrections a month. Since my site is already linked, as well as other directory sites, that should be sufficient. In my previous post here, I did not understand the concept that anyone can change it. On that basis, if hashes have a complaint, like with my own directory, they can add their info or correct it. Weird letting a bunch of drunken hashers loose on info like this - you never know what it will turn out like. Stray Dog, webmaster http://www.gthhh.com, editor of Global Trash.


 * I think your suggestion to dump this page, and merely link to yours, is utterly insane.


 * Missing The Point: Stray Dog is not suggesting removing the article and linking to his site exclusively, that would be silly. He is remarking that trying to link to each club/kennel's site and keep it current would be a Sisyphean task -- as it is discussed in the topic below -- and would take far too many pages and end up with many redundancies. So it makes sense to add in links to some of the comprehensive directories in the external links section. I'm also sure that SD has learned a bit more about the wonderful world of Wiki since he posted that. Guavagirl 08:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Removal of individual Hashes, leaving Larger H3 Sites linking
''If any hashes have their own Wikipedia pages, shouldn't we just have a separate page with a List of Hash Groups and have no external links to individual hashes, not even DC or San Diego. Aardhart 22:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)''

Aardhart, I think we're thinking along the same lines. There are indeed over a thousand clubs out there and to place them all on one Wikipedia page would be insane. A few links to "other" web sites (not just one) would probably be best. Right now we're keeping it to States and cities, but could get out of hand if more edit's happen. Anyone have a better idea?


 * While on the one hand I would like to see my local hash have its own Wikipedia page I can also see how the details relating to the founding and operation of an individual hash would be of interest to too few people to justify a page. I’m inclined to just post such a history to my own hash’s site rather than take up Wikipedia space with it.  But then again I don’t know much about anything. -Farakon 23:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Exact same external URL addresses frequently appear in this article. It's doubtful how useful this redundancy is for the reader. Here's a list of external URLs included in this article:

&#91;...list abbreviated (--Tokek 02:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC))...&#93;
 * http://7h4hash.com
 * http://alohah3.org/Default.htm
 * http://alohah3.org/Default.htm
 * http://www.yh3.org/
 * http://www.zh3.ch/
 * http://www.zoniehhh.org

Of these links, the following appear at least twice (ignoring trailing slash differences):

&#91;...list abbreviated (--Tokek 02:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC))...&#93;
 * http://alohah3.org/Default.htm
 * http://bfm.phillyhash.com
 * http://gohash.com
 * http://www.upstatehashers.com
 * http://www.wh3.org
 * http://www.winchesterh3.com

Just maybe, something like 99% of the external links need to go. I wouldn't be surprised if this article violates one or more Wikipedia guidelines as it currently stands. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing H3 external links (including directory sites) limited to footnotes only (within &lt;ref&gt; tags). —Tokek 16:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed all but four, as per Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links and WP:EL. ShakingSpirit talk  16:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; there seems little reason to add any more links without specific need. Poeple can use the links to find the group they want in the geographical location that is appropriate. I also removed the 'podcast' link since that site is no longer active. (mblitch)

Tone
I didn't add that particular cleanup tag, but I do see what the editor who did meant. At times this article reads more like an "Aren't HHH fun guys?" site than anything else. There's plenty of interest here, and the subject is clearly notable, but - for example - the "How it is done" section seems almost ridiculously detailed for a general encyclopedia. Some inline referencing would be useful, too. Loganberry (Talk) 00:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Hash and Sex
I am not sure whether there may be some US-prudish Wikipedia rule that forbids it but writing about the Hash without once mentioning its strong sexual connotations seems a trifle strange. I'd estimate that well over half of all "hash names" contain strong sexual connotations, the rest refer to something anal and a few are neutral. Quite a few of the traditions include nudity and exhibitionism. This element of bawdiness is very much part of the image and self-advertising of many Hashes. At least for a substantial minority of Hashers the social side of Hash weekends is also about getting a chance to uncomplicated sex. Is there some policy behind leaving all this out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.202.106.187 (talk) 07:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I know for a fact that many more HHHs are just like that. I also have personally witnessed a person being physically accosted by individuals because he did not realize the weekend outing at a campsite was going to be a Public Sexual Orgy. When said individual was vocal about the behaviors being unacceptable he was held by a group of men and CHoked out then while he was down on the ground unconscious he was kicked in the head, face, chest and stomach multiple times. Being told by one of the leaders of this HHH gathering that this individual was given 2 hits of LSD by a drug supplier, who attends functions to supply subasance. They had hoped he would go stare at a tree and quit calling people names to describe their choice of lifestyles or sectual persuaion. Being in a completely unsafe environment this substance only elevated the verbal comments resulting in his being abused to the point that he still suffers today from a hernia. He had multiple broken and bruised ribs and a swollen and black eye along with a facial scar and a cuncussion. I have heard that many have been raped or sexually abused at these affairs but when they write on here it just is edited out and deleted. I do not expect this to stay up very long either. Stay away....far far away unless you are into wife swapping, nudity, watching sadomasochistic behavior on a stage in front of you or participating in orgies. Whether you chose to participate in sexual activities or not you are judged by the company you keep and therefore those who know what the HHH is really all about will assume you participate.

On-Downs
Someone added On-Down as a name for a post-hash event. It's really not. See here. Basseq (talk) 18:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Check back definition?
Perhaps it's a regional thing, but the definition provided of a "check back" (or back check) doesn't quite match my experience - it's not the same as a false trail, it's a mark to count back X number of hash marks (with the final mark becoming a de facto check). That's not the most succinct way of putting it, so if anyone else wants to take a stab at it, go for it. Unless my kennel is wildly outside the mainstream, in which case...never mind.JesterDel (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I've heard of clubs marking "back checks/check backs" with a number corresponding to the number of marks to follow backwards before the true trail. In my hash, a "back check" usually means that the hashers should turn around and follow the trail back until they find a mark that would only be visible to going the opposite direction of the way they came (i.e. on the back side of a street sign or lamp post). Still other hashes make no differentiation between "back check" and a false trail, both marks directing the hashers to return to the last "open check" and search for true trail. I'm not sure how this article should handle such regional variations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.64.101.176 (talk) 05:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)  I've added "Apres" since that term is prevalent in the US.

Comments on the "Worldwide Interhational Hash" section
The title of this section is misleading. It should be titled "Interhash" or "Interhashing."

There is no history of interhashing prior to 1978. It might be helpful to readers to include some information on how the first IH (Hong Kong, 1978) came to be.

At this point it is misleading to list locations for upcoming Interhashes (2012 and 2014), so perhaps these shouldn't be listed at all. Perhaps a short note could be added, explaining how future venues are selected at Interhash.

Paul woodford (talk) 15:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Terms
The Hash House Harriers article provides general information about hashing and is written with a non-hashing audience in mind. The "Terms" section, which gets down to a nuts & bolts level of detail, doesn't fit with the general tone of the article and should be removed. If we insert one section containing highly detailed information into this general interest article, why then not add sections listing links to all known hash kennels, a hash songbook, or a list of hash names?

This is what "external links" are for, and all this detailed information is amply covered by the external links already included.

Paul woodford (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd agree - I think the terms should probably go as the information is too specific for an encyclopedia. I've taken out a number of items which are obscure or seem to be only used be a subset of hashes, but I think the whole table should probably go.BarryNL (talk) 08:20, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Overall Article Organization
I don't think the article, as presently written, is organized correctly. My suggestion:

1. Organization

2. History

3. Traditions

4. Trails

5. Events

6. Interhashing

7. References

8. External Links

Other suggestions and notes:

- The "Terms" section should be eliminated, but the "Signals & Terms" subsection under "Trails" should be retained.

- The "Variations" subsection under "Events" should be moved under "Traditions."

- The "Worldwide International Hash" section should be renamed "Interhashing."

- "References" should really be incorporated into "External Links."

Earlier today I added some discussion points under my Paul woodford user name. Sorry, I forgot that I had another user account set up under my hash name!

Flying Booger (talk) 19:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You're right to suggest reorganization, though I might quibble (at my own peril, of course) with your outline. I'd put Trail - the sine qua non of a Hash - before traditions. An Interhash IS an event. But you're right: this is so much better and Wiki-ish than it was.

Bordighera H3
British hasher Amnesia researched the often-told story of Gus Mackey founding the Bordighera Hash House Harriers in Italy in 1947. His research is here: http://slideonline.com/presentation/5686-bordighera-h3-pdf/#/0.

Amnesia's conclusion is that Gus Mackey did not exist and that the entire story is a hoax. I will not repeat his points here since they are spelled out in his linked paper. In short, however, Amnesia could find no evidence that Gus Mackey existed. He did not hash in Kuala Lumpur before WWII; he is not listed in British military records; there are no records of anyone with that or a similar name being a POW in Italy during WWII; there are no Italian municipal records of his existence after WWII. Without Gus Mackey, the rest of the story of Bordighera H3 crumbles.

I suggest, therefore, that the sentence mentioning Bordighera H3 be removed from the History section.

Flying Booger (talk) 16:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Jargon
The jargon term "kennel" – presumably for a pack of "hounds"? – appears twice in one section, and I've marked it as needing further explanation. I don't recall hearing the term used for the Kota Kinabalu, Sabah Hash group during the mid -1970s when we lived there. But that was a long time ago! yoyo (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2018 (UTC)


 * To confirm, "Kennel" is the common use to describe differing chapters/clubs/groups (etc.) in the Hashing world. Officially, the term 'Chapters' is commonly used. I had a huge tiff about this with Tumbling Bill (who created the Hash genealogy) but he merely stated that he was going by the 'official' terminology as per legal requirements since the word 'kennel' isn't common in the legal vernacular and that the Hash Heritage Foundation (which now runs/manages the Genealogy amongst other things) needed to comply with that requirement to get itself registered. So, there you go. Tuckermcgaw (talk) 11:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I ran Hash for 20 years from the mid 70's and never used or heard the word 'Kennel' used to describe a 'Chapter' anywhere in Australia, New Zealand or Malaysia (Lassie - "The Phantom Hash" -Ipswich - Australia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.6.254.215 (talk) 05:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Hasher
Its a arabic name MEANING: climb to top (to climb toward success) Hasher22 (talk) 07:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * If you can find a reliable source such as a newspaper or book that says this, go ahead and add it in with a citation to that source. – Novem Linguae (talk) 17:12, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Hash Geneology
I think that there should be a link to Bill "Tumbling" Panton's opus The Hash Genealogy. I am not sure who is currently keep the database updated and alive, but if it was updated and alive then it would be a great resource for kennels, etc. As of now, the Hash Heritage Foundation is maintaining it to some extent. Maybe also mention that the HFH is also (re)building the Hash House as a project in Malaysia. Tuckermcgaw (talk) 07:24, 27 July 2023 (UTC)