Talk:Hattians

Untitled
In case you were wondering, no, "Hetto-Iberian" doesn't bring up anything on the http://www.google.com radar screen. We're in the world of Cryptogeography here, and User:Zestauferov calls the shots!User:Wetman

Please see the article Iberian-Caucasian peoples and the discussion Talk:Iberian-Caucasian peoples for more details. On google the following pages can be found http://www.travelguide.ge/georgia/history.htm http://www.zviadi.angelcities.com/Georgia.htm thankyou For some reason Wetman is on a smear campaign against any perspectives which try to look at Biblical ideas from a historical angle instead of taking them as literal in an uninterpretable sense. Zestauferov 05:25, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hattic language
Bryce, Trevor The Kingdom of the Hittites (1998) Oxford University Press, pp This book talk about the HITTIES not HATTIANS!! they are not the same ppl so the sout caucasian language he is talking about is related to hitties no hattians


 * Agreed, the only mention of "Caucasian" in the book, per books.google.com is in the bibliography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.92.95.110 (talk) 04:23, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A 2nd revised 2005 edition of Bryce's 1998 classic on the Kingdom of the Hittites is given in Bryn Mawr: The first had several deficiencies which marred its reliability. Leoboudv (talk) 06:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The 2005 edition is searchable at google books and it does not discuss any affiliations of the Hattic language, Indo-European, Caucasian or otherwise.


 * This edit summary re Bryce was uncalled for. Twinkeltwinklelittlestar (talk) 15:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The Charles Burney dictionary which is now cited does not give any explanation for his claim, nor does he cite any sources for it. Burney also claims the Hattians arrived in Anatolia later than the Hittites, which is news to me (and to Bryce), and also unsourced.

A Racist?
Who did put in "they didnt look like the hittites because their noses were all long" ????

What does this have with anything to do? The Egyptians painted pictures of them sometimes with long noses, that doesnt mean all have long noses does it :P ? hahaha very funny though. Did the guy who wrote this actually see Hattians for about some thousand years?? Did he invent a timemachine or what, i want one of those.

If no one complains about my comment im going to remove the lines written about Hattian noses ). --Kurdalo (talk) 13:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This has nothing to do with racism. This is fully explained in the book "The Hattian and Hittite Civilizations" by Ekrem Akurgal, the prominent Turkish archaeologist. He writes literally on page 6 :

"'The large-nosed soldiers identified as 'Hitti' in the Egyptian temple depictions of the Battle of Kadesh show a completely different ethnic type from their kings in the same scenes'" He then produces this depiction with the following text : "'In our opinion these heads of 'Hittite' soldiers, shown in the 13th century BC wall pictures from Egypt, in fact portray the Hattian ethnic type'" He writes further : "'The Hattian soldiers in question recall the physiognomy of a silver statuette from Hasanoğlan, dated about 2000 BC. This type also shows great similarity to statuettes found at Tell Brak.'" In the description of this statuette, he writes : "'This is a masterpiece of Hattian art. The large 'Roman nose' of the Hasanoğlan statuette reveals the ethnic type of Anatolian people of that time'"


 * I hope this explanation satisfies your question. JoJan (talk) 13:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Not racist at all, different peoples have different features, so what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.101 (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Clarification

 * moved from User talk : JoJan

Excuse me JoJan but could you please state if the Hattians had long or short noses (which is it exactly?) and give your source for the last paragraph of the Hattians article. (in the Hattians article itself) After all, you were the person who made the edit about them here:  Your statement here is unclear and somewhat confusing. The Hattians likely disappeared from history long before the 13th century BC Battle of Kadesh. Leoboudv (talk) 02:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As explained above, Mr. Akurgal clearly states that the Hattians, in his opinion, had long noses. It is not uncommon for different peoples to have differences in physiognomy : the Hittites were Indo-European, the Hattians not.
 * As to your presumed disappearance of the Hattians : from about 2200 BC Anatolia was being invaded by Indo-European tribes. The Hattians were overtaken by the Hittites, but not wiped out. On the contrary, the Hattian influence on the Hittites was such, that the Hittites were greatly influenced in their religion, mythology, ceremonies and customs by the Hattians. The Hittites, who referred to themselves an Nesians and spoke Nesian, continued to use for their land the term "Land of the Hatti" until about 630 BC. Hittite kings, such as Tudhaliyas, Arnuwandas or Ammuna had names that were originally Hattian names of mountains. Mr. Akurgal states on page 6 of his book : "The Hattians were still the great majority of the population in the Hittite period". JoJan (talk) 14:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

clarification needed
Can someone clarify this, please?
 * between ca. 2500 - 2000/1700 BC

Does that mean between about 2500 and some time around 2000 or 1700 BC, or starting some time around 2500 or 2000 BC and ending about 1700 BC?

(In general, I believe that "between A to B" and "between A–B" aren't encyclopedic style; "from A to B" and "between A and B" are.) &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 21:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Location
It is claimed that Hattians lived in central and south east Anatolia. Is this claim sourced ? So far I haven't seen any source which locates Hattians in south east. They probably lived in central and central north Anatolia. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:16, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Mr. Akurgal (see : references in the article) states in his book on page 6 : "having learned definitely that before the Hittites the Hattians were living in central Anatolia....". I have therefore removed the word "southeastern" from the text. The confusion may have arisen because "the tribes of European origin (the Hittites) that came to Anatolia via the Caucasus, lived for some time in southeastern Anatolia. Later, around 1700 BC, they formed a state in central Anatolia and made Hattusha (Boğazköy) its capital" (quote from Mr. Akurgal's book, p. 297). JoJan (talk) 13:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

This map is better than the Hittite map!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KarumKanis.svg Böri (talk) 12:12, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Hattian Deities
Taru, Eştan, Wurunkatte (= Zababa), The Sun Goddess of the city of Arinna (= Wuruşemu), Telipinu, Halmaşuitta, İnara, Halipinu (= Hatepinu), Katahzipuri, Kattaha, Mezzula, Zintuhi, Kaharwuzzil (= Kahalwuzzil), Kaştuwarit, Tahattenuit, Waşşizil, Şulinkatte, The Gods of the cities of Nerik and Zippalanda, Zaşhapuna, Zaliyanu, Lelwani, İşduştaya, Papaya, Teteşhapi, Terewatte, Terhapati, Tetepiri, İmar, Taşimmet, Tuhulil source: the works of Ekrem Akurgal, Sedat Alp and Ali Dinçol Böri (talk) 09:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Hattic words

 * king = katte
 * queen = kattah
 * child = binu, pinu
 * children = lebinu
 * god = shapu, washapu (= gods), ashaf, shaf, fa-shaf
 * land = fur
 * wine = findu?
 * sun = eshtan
 * moon = kap
 * mountain = zish
 * year = lish
 * bread = fula
 * sea = han
 * leopard = prash, parash
 * to hear, listen = shama
 * woman = nimhu/nimhut
 * head = kash
 * wind = pezil
 * stone = pip
 * big = te
 * house = fel / fael
 * lord = tafarna
 * lion = takeha
 * soldier = aku
 * rain = tumil
 * I = fa
 * wine = karam (< from Semitic karm)
 * horse = tarish?
 * cheese = witanu
 * father = fafaya
 * copper = kinawar
 * sky = yah
 * iron = hapalki
 * bird = ashti
 * tongue = alef
 * to protect = kip
 * bright = paru
 * leaves = puluku
 * to blow on = puşan
 * priest = paraya (see father above)
 * lady = tawa-nanna
 * root = tup
 * gate = ştip
 * thousand = far
 * fear = tafa
 * sour = zipina / wet
 * to stand = anti
 * wind = pezil
 * to look = pnu
 * mortality = funa
 * to devour = puş
 * to lie, put = ti
 * long = fute
 * to fall = zik
 * when = anna
 * to open = han
 * to see = kun
 * to come, go = nu
 * wide = harki
 * heart = şaki
 * to eat = tu
 * wood = zehar/zihar
 * wife = zuwatu
 * ground = şahhu/tahhu
 * lord = şail/tail
 * barber = tahaya
 * to pour = tefu
 * to take = tuh
 * to build = teh
 * to step = tuk
 * horn = kaiş
 * to come (here) = aş
 * to be able = lu
 * light = leli
 * runner = luizzil
 * to strew = hel
 * to envy = le
 * to hide = her
 * arm, sleeve = hir
 * to seize = hu
 * spring, well = uri
 * this = ana
 * when = anna
 * woman = anna
 * upwards = akka
 * 5 = apa
 * earth = araz
 * human being = antuh
 * ritual functionaries = dudduşhijal
 * palace = halentiu
 * throne = halmaşşuit / kuşim
 * courage = haipinamul
 * among, between, through = ha-
 * on, to the = ka-
 * head = kaş
 * witchcraft, sorcery = katakumi
 * spy, messenger = kiluh
 * soul = kut/kud/psun
 * his = le-
 * his/her = te-
 * from = li-
 * good = malhip
 * apple = şawat
 * district = telipuri
 * rain = tumin
 * you = un- / wa
 * to you = ud-
 * we = uş-
 * bull, ox = milup
 * stones = munamuna
 * hammer = pakku
 * to you = par-
 * eagle = wapah
 * thousand = war
 * sheep = wazar
 * wine = win
 * bread = wulasne
 * grandson = zintu
 * wife = zuwatu

I used "ş" for "sh" sound... These words are Hattic words! (NOT Hittite!)Source: http://www.palaeolexicon.com/ (please click Languages, find Hattic and click Word Index. (I wrote this on Wiktionary). Böri (talk) 09:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

History section
Has no sources? This is a fairly interesting subject, so I'd like some footnotes in that section, if possible.

71.221.73.159 (talk) 03:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Further: "second half of the 3rd millennia BC" - what is this? - Done.2A02:8108:9640:AC3:68CE:134A:ECBD:B200 (talk) 06:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)