Talk:Hava Nagila

Ukranian reference
ok im reading page 12 and im seeing nothing remotley having to do with hava nagilah or ukranian origin,page 12 talks about temple instruments —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.61.243 (talk) 15:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Roma Reference
What is the connection with the Roma community? Are there any references? Why irreligious? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.199.104.198 (talk) 14:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Possibly that the Serbian Roma brass band legend Boban Marković was one of the many musicians who have recorded it? Just a guess--probably wrong. The chicken and the egg could easily be swapped here.192.88.158.211 (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Cleaned up?
Attempted clean-up. It's an improvement from what was before, but if anyone has other ideas, please edit away or leave me a suggestion on my talk page. JFHJr (㊟) 16:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

How many Hs?
Hava Nagila (like the article title says)? Hava Nagilah (like the first paragraph says)? Havah Nagilah (like the lyrics say)? I realize it comes down to difference in transcription, but can't we be consistent? 69.140.12.199 07:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Because the Hebrew ends in a ה I think the English should end in an "H" 71.198.6.204 (talk) 19:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Allan Sherman's parody "Harvey and Sheila"
The Parody's section of "Hava Nagila" doesn't mention Allan Sherman's parody "Harvey and Sheila" (1962-ish). This is probably the first and most famous parody version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Sherman

http://users.bestweb.net/~foosie/sherman.htm

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Allan-Sherman/Harvey-And-Sheila.html

http://www.amazon.com/My-Son-Greatest-Allan-Sherman/dp/B00000348Q/sr=8-1/qid=1167924836/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2960954-8891623?ie=UTF8&s=music —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.107.0.73 (talk) 15:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

When was the text written?
Since the text is in modern Hebrew I have hard to believe that it was written to celebrate a British victory. Is there really no evidence for it before 1918? According to “Judisk Krönika” number 1/2007 (or number 1/5767 if you want) it was written in Jerusalem in 1910. The music teacher Abraham Zevi Idelsohn asked his students to write a text to the traditional tune. The twelve-year-old boy named Moshe Nathanson came up with the text now in common use. “Judisk Krönika” is a magazine by and for Swedish Jews. No, I am no Jew myself! I got the magazine from a neighbour who recently joined Judaism.

2007-03-04 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

More parody
Jo Anne Worley's parody is quite funny. It is probably translatable to Swedish too. But what does she mean with a “nagila”? Maybe some type of cookie? Israeli “rejoice” cookies... (laugh)

2007-03-07 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

I recall a similar parody done by Buddy Hackett some time in the 1960's where he sang "hava nagila, have two nagila, have three nagila, there's plenny more." (Plenny being a colloquial pronunciation of "plenty" but I couldn't give you any exact references (dates, broadcasts, etc.) --Rudbekia 12:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Origin of the tune
There seems to be some disagreement as to the origin of the tune. Is it ancient? Even if it appears in a work by Saint-Saens, that deosn't mean he did not use an existing melody. A quick Google tends to indicate that there are varying views. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.146.177.244 (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ukrainian origin?
I have heard ukrainian song with same melody but text something like: "это танец солнце и огня" (this is dance of sun and fire) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.118.205.130 (talk) 08:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Metonym
In the first paragraph, "In popular culture, it is used as a metonym for Zionism" needs either citations or maybe removal. When has the song ever been used that way? Surely it can't be, for example "in 1948 Zionism's central aim was achieved" would not make sense as "in 1948 Hava Nagila's central aim was achieved". 87.80.97.137 (talk) 19:15, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I tagged the sentence with citation needed a few moments ago, but I see now that the issue has been unaddressed for over six weeks. I'll go ahead and remove that part of the sentence. –Black Falcon (Talk) 22:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Composer (Lyrics)
Should it be noted that Moshe Nathanson wrote the lyrics? It's said here http://savethemusic.com/bin/archives.cgi?q=bio&id=Moshe+Nathanson and in the Spanish Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.172.249.10 (talk) 23:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Did he really? I vaguely recall reciting the lyrics during liturgy, although I can't remember where. It would be good to know the source of the lyrics. kosboot (talk) 16:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Played at sports events
Should it be noted that HN is often heard at sports events around the world, even where Judaism is not the main religion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skaizun (talk • contribs) 05:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The chart under the Olympics heading - what does it mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.208.94 (talk) 01:09, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Drinking song?
Wondering if it would be appropriate to add this article to Category:Drinking songs? -- &oelig; &trade; 19:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

youtube link
guys seriously, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHdr4rWG98 is an Anthrax music video. Plz fix, thx! 67.188.32.123 (talk) 03:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC) peter

Performers
Just listened to Twisted Sister's "O Come All Ye Faithful" off Twisted Christmas and we'd swear the ending guitar wind-down sounds like Hava Nagila. Can the more musically inclined confirm? Listen to the video on YouTube; Hava Nagila starts at 5:39. Complex.confusion (talk) 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hava Nagila has romanian origin, not ukrainian!
At the begin of the 20th century, the majority of people in Bukovina were Romanians. Bukovina was a province of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. Bukovina has joined Romania in 1918, but the northern half of the province was lost for Romania, according with the Ribbentrop-Molotov treaty, after the WW2. Hava Nagila is associated with "hora", a Romanian traditional dance. This shows once more the Romanian origin of this song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.25.61.4 (talk) 11:59, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * All very interesting, but without a source,cannot be used in the encyclopedia. 71.201.62.200 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, which part of Bukovina? Northern part is in Ukraine; southern in Romania.Dogru144 (talk) 01:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Key of the song
Should it be noted that the song is written in the Harmonic minor key of A? --201.172.183.94 (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, is the pitch really fixed? Secondly (assuming you are right and the last note of the melody is A) it could also be analysed as E Phrygian dominant (as the article currently does). Double sharp (talk) 06:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Ajax and Tottenham Hotspur
Previous discourse taken from Galassi's talk page see Hava Nagila and Ajax Hello Galassi, regarding your reverting some recent changes that I had made to the Hava Nagila page. I have provided a good reference from a New York Times article stating exactly that which is stated. I can add plenty more references, which I will do now shortly to solidify it even more. Those other Olympic events in the same sports section have no references whatsoever, I think some citation tags for those events might be called for. The fact is that AFC Ajax have strong ties to Jewish symbolism, due to the fact that Amsterdam was a Mokum city, and Ajax played in a Jewish neighborhood for quite a while in Amsterdam. This is a very common song often heard in the Amsterdam Arena, and is definitely noteworthy in terms of usage in Sports. I seriously doubt it is used anywhere more then in Amsterdam. Sincerely, (Subzzee (talk) 01:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That is trivia. And trivia is discouraged here.--Galassi (talk) 03:17, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not merely trivia it is a big part of Ajax culture and lore and is definitely noteworthy of mention in the usage of the Sports section of the very page. There is not a single sport or association with stronger ties to this song then Ajax, except for maybe Maccabi or Haifa in Israel. But the association of Ajax to the Hava Nagila song is very well known and well documented, and should be made mention of on the main article. Especially if you are going to have a segment dedicated to sports. There is not a stronger association to sports with the Hava Nagila song then that of Ajax Amsterdam. If you cross reference almost every song which has become integrated so deeply into the culture of a sports association, it has a noteworthy mention on the main page of the song. The cause for the association in the case of Ajax, dates back about 80 years, is a standing tradition, and is deeply rooted in the geographic location of the former Stadium/ The song is strongly tied to the club from Amsterdam, which happens to be one of the biggest and most successful clubs in the sport. Regards, (Subzzee (talk) 04:06, 20 March 2014 (UTC))
 * WP:UNDUE, WP:COATRACK.--Galassi (talk) 13:11, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You have got to be kidding me, this is by no means a minority view, and coat rack? Try all the mentions of the song on the article that cite no sources whatsoever. I have cited sources ranging from the Financial TImes, to New York Times which state and address the exact usage of this very song, and plenty more, while you let several unsourced references to this song stand on the article uncontested. I really don't get it. If there should be mention of this song in regards to sports, the usage by the two clubs I have mentioned are beyond noteworthy. They are both clubs who have played in Jewish neighborhoods of their respected cities (Amsterdam and London) and the mention of their usage of this song is really undeniable. Please give me substantial evidence as to why these sports teams and the usage of this song is not not noteworthy and I will give you plenty of references that state otherwise. As mentioned earlier, you will be hard pressed to find a more prevalent usage of the song in sports then that of these two football clubs, and the relation of the two is undeniable. (Subzzee (talk) 00:45, 22 March 2014 (UTC))
 * In a nutshell - this is trivia. The inclusion in the HNG article is absolutely unwarranted. Take it to the talk page. --Galassi (talk) 12:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You got it, I'm bringing in more Wikipedia members to debate this issue. I think you are wrong. There have been several feature films released where the chanting of Hava Nagila at the Stadium, takes up a whole 5 minute section of the movie, see Superjews, also various press houses have reported on it, i.e. New York Times, Financial Times, etc. I think it is in fact noteworthy on the main article of the song, particularly if you are going to include a section on sports. There is no usage of the song in any sport more prominent then that of these two football clubs. Sorry if that does not appeal to you, but I have included countless records of it from various credible sources as mentioned earlier in this very debate. I will raise this issue on the talk page,I have made several points to validate the inclusion, while you have reverted these changes without really validation or engaging in any form of discourse. I have been polite and courteous and have offered several explanations to justify the inclusion. The adoption of this song by both teams is known, very well documented and warranted, having been a staple at both clubs for over 80 years now, the Ajax website at one point even offered the song for download and had ringtones of it available on their main website. Sincerely, (Subzzee (talk) 21:33, 22 March 2014 (UTC))

I would like to invite other members of the community to comment on said changes; See Before changes User Galassi has reverted the changes several times over, without offering much of an explanation as to why, and we have reached a point in our disagreement which I feel requires some assistance in order to find a resolution. Thank you in advance for your participation. Regards, (Subzzee (talk) 21:38, 22 March 2014 (UTC))

Addendum - Ajax and Tottenham Hotspur
Hi all, I am a Part - time volunteer from the Dispute resolution noticeboard. I am facing some problems with the references for Tottenham Hotspur. While the sources quoted for Ajax clearly state what has been quoted from these articles (Google translate helped here with two articles), the sources quoted for are either leading to a page unavailable scenario on Google Books or is leading to a paid subscription page of FT, which leads to these sources being questionable at best. There is the larger question raised by about the suitability of these references in view of the article. While the sources quoted above clearly show the importance of Jewish Culture w.r.t. the football clubs, it does not indicate how that could be significant for the article about the song. For example the national anthem of a country may have been played at various occasions including such as an Olympics Victory, at a political rally and again in a Football Club match but surely not every occasion added something significant to the history of the song and hence, needs to be stated in a Wikipedia article about the song. One or two historic renditions should be enough. While the removal of content is always controversial, it might also condense the article and make it more interesting to read. Any opinion on this track would be helpful.--Wikishagnik (talk) 15:50, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

hava nagila
CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELME ABOUT, HOW OLD IS THE SONG HAVA NAGILA,....???? THANK YOU, VERY MUCH., SAL ESQUIVEL  elreka1@gmail.com  cel, 011521-661-527-7339  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.250.156.230 (talk) 15:23, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Edits of 3 September 2015
These were prompted by review of Hava Nagila (The Movie), a citation which has now been added, which supported 2-3 sentences that were heretofore unreferenced. Even so, the Origins section remains a largely unreferenced, as does the section listing all the productions of the piece, and so a tag was added to the article noting that until it is better sourced, it is not encyclopedic. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Olympic sports?
What is the purpose of § Olympic sports? There's no explanation whatever.

Now, seeing that all but one of the entries is listed with Sport as either Figure skating, Gymnastics, or Rhythmic gymnastics, it's a pretty good bet that these athletes have used "Hava Nagila" in their routines. But what the Sam Hill is a footballer (US: soccer player) doing in there? And in any case, a decent encyclopedia doesn't leave its users to guess.

I'm crossposting this note to the three projects that have expressed interest in this page: Songs, Jewish culture, and Judaism. Thnidu (talk) 01:05, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like the table was originally added on 8 August 2012 by who is still active on Wikipedia - perhaps he/she can explain what the purpose of the table was. My guess is that Tony Yeboah is there because the fans at his club had made up a chant featuring his name and to the tune of Hava Nagila. Richard3120 (talk) 02:00, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ., would you please add a brief paragraph to explain the table? Especially Tony Yeboah, whose name scans identically to "Hava Nagila" but whose connection I never would have guessed! --Thnidu (talk) 02:08, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I actually added a list of figure skaters and gymnasts who've used it in their performances and it was not me who named the section "Olympic sports". -- Ե րևանցի talk  19:28, 25 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I removed the table as it was completely uncited. Whatever happens, if it is replaced, each item in the list needs a citation. Softlavender (talk) 02:31, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Greek origin?
HasapikoSamizambak (talk) 15:08, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Hava Naquila (song)
Same song, different recording, per WP:NSONGS Richhoncho (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Cover version — Ben Folds
https://www.amazon.com/Hava-Nagila-Live-Single-B-Side/dp/B006MVV424

Hava Nagila (Live Single B-Side - 1997) Ben Folds Five From the Album Vault Volume I (1992-1997) December 23, 2011

—- Jo3sampl (talk) 04:30, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Pronounciation of "ḥ"
The article claims. "Note: The "ḥ" should[citation needed] preferably be pronounced as a voiceless pharyngeal fricative [ħ] (as in classical Hebrew) rather than a voiceless uvular fricative [χ], as "ch" as in Bach (modern Hebrew pronunciation)."

Well why? Other than the preference of the author of this statement. Indeed many of us pronounce our classical Hebrew 'het' as the ch in Bach. Alan3278 (talk) 22:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The pharyngeal pronunciation is traditional among many Jews from Arab lands, and apparently was a kind of prestige pronunciation among some in Israel during the 1950s (though few used it in their ordinary everyday speech), but I'm not too sure why anyone would insist on it now... AnonMoos (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2020 (UTC)