Talk:Hawkeye (miniseries)/Archive 1

Rename?
Given Discussing Film's article used on this article and the Phase Four one states Hawkeye is expected to release in late 2021 or early 2022, should it be best for us to rename this draft and the redirect Hawkeye (2022 TV series) to Draft:Hawkeye (upcoming TV series) and Hawkeye (upcoming TV series)? That way we're following the sources as the release isn't certain yet. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:53, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's still technically correct, so I say let's wait until we get a further refined info. But if others feel strongly to make the move, I'm not against it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:52, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with moving it to an "upcoming" disambiguation, I came to the talk page to start this exact discussion, actually. The premiere date is ambiguous in "late 2021 or early 2022", so we don't have a set date to use. -- / Alex /21  23:08, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It would make more sense considering the current climate on delayed content. Govvy (talk) 23:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm for it. While "2022" is still "technically" correct, it could be wrong and includes partial information. "Upcoming" is true in any case and more appropriate for a yet-ambiguous date. El Millo (talk) 23:51, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, let's go with "upcoming TV series". I already recreated the redirect with the 2021 dab back to this article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Also tagged with R avoided double redirect. -- / Alex /21  05:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Alex I removed the double redirect, as it's not really a double redirect since everything is going to the "upcoming" name now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean, up to you, but if it does indeed premiere in 2022, then the 2021 disambiguation will need to redirect to the 2022 page, which is exactly what R avoided double redirect is for: Some redirects should target other redirects, but that is not allowed by Wikipedia software. A redirect that targets another redirect is called a "double redirect". To avoid a double redirect, any alternative-title redirect must also target the same broader article, and must be updated if the redirect from the more specific title is converted to a separate article. -- / Alex /21  01:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * When a year of release is set, the other redirect will most likely be deleted. El Millo (talk) 01:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * We'd only have a double redirect situation if 2021 pointed to 2022, which in turn was pointing here. But both can currently point to "upcoming", so we cut out that "middle man" so to speak that would create the double redirect scenario. And as Facu mentioned, once a definitive date is settled on, the other date, plus upcoming can both be deleted. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Move to mainspace?
According to Georgia's website, Hawkeye is in production under its working title Anchor Point. - Richiekim (talk) 14:22, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Let’s do it!—TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:47, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * FYI, the table at the website doesn't archive, so if some websites start picking up on this, we should ultimately replace that source, because once it's no longer filming, that source will be useless for us. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm still a little bit skeptical about this thing. I have decided not to create an article of this television series into Finnish Wikipedia (my mother language) until Kate Bishop's actress has been announced or another source is provided about filming having begun. CAJH (talk) 23:02, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Any info on a Kate Bishop actor might be far off, but Georgia's own government site is certainly reliable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * But the question remains: how much they're going to film without Bishop's actress? CAJH (talk) 10:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Just because it hasnt been reported doesnt mean that she hasn’t been cast. Also who knows how much the character will appear or what the filming schedule is.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Brooklyn filming
Heads up: according to this tweet, Hawkeye is scheduled to film in Brooklyn next week.-Richiekim (talk) 14:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The author is verified, so we can add the info in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

First look at Hailee Steinfeld as Kate Bishop
If we can add this link to an article with video evidence in it to the page, we have proof that Hailee Steinfeld has been cast as Kate Bishop for "Hawkeye": https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/exclusive-first-look-at-hailee-steinfeld-as-kate-bishop/. If this link is an acceptable source, I'm hoping we can finally add Hailee Steinfeld into the cast list as who will play Kate Bishop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.162.120 (talk) 19:11, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Murphy's Multiverse is an unreliable source, so we'll have to wait if any reliable outlets report on this. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:33, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The video needs to come from a reliable source. But this along with her latest instagram post (which the directors acknowledged) does seem to lend some credibility to her casting. Still, we need explicit verification from a reliable source.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:36, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comic Book Resources has an article on the leaked video, though I don't think it can be used as it's dubbed a leak. https://www.cbr.com/hawkeye-hailee-steinfeld-kate-bishop-pizza-dog-video/ Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:39, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Even if this particular video was reliable, it's also extremely hard to make out who it is in the video. It's 240p quality, filmed from an opposite subway track, with pillars and other people in the way. But yes, as Triiiple said, all things are now once again pointing toward Steinfeld in the role, so we just have to wait for the reliable source to fully confirm. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:32, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * What about this video here that MCU Plus managed to record from underneath the subway: https://www.instagram.com/p/CITv1FyFelm/?igshid=f2a2rv3bwwnl? You can clearly tell that's Hailee Steinfeld at the end of the video as Kate Bishop for Hawkeye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.162.120 (talk) 21:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It is an Instagram post from an unverifiable account, so we can't take it just based on appearance. We need a reliable source to confirm her casting, even though it may be obvious Steinfeld is filming for the series. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:38, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Since this does seem obvious, it'll only be a matter of time before we get the reliable source independently confirming her casting, and not basing it off of unreliable content. Remember, WP:NORUSH. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:02, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * How about now: https://twitter.com/CreamOrScream/status/1334260959360262145?

Here is 100% official High-Quality photos of Hailee Steinfeld with Jeremy Renner, confirming once and for all she is Kate Bishop for "Hawkeye": https://twitter.com/CreamOrScream/status/1334260959360262145. I'm hoping this can be a good enough source to add Hailee Steinfeld's name into the cast list section for Hawkeye as who will play Kate Bishop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.162.120 (talk) 22:34, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Unverified Twitter accounts are not reliable sources.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:45, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * But the photos ARE REAL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.162.120 (talk) 22:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * So says the unreliable source.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:48, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * However real they are and however obvious it may be, we still need a reliable source. El Millo (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems to have been confirmed by Collider here. Is this good enough? El Millo (talk) 22:52, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think so. I self reverted my edit. Apologies to .—TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Washington Square Park filming
We can't use this source because it's the Daily Mail, but the series was filming in Washington Square Park today (December 3). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:45, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * We are just going to have to wait for an actual reliable source to confirm it. — Young Forever (talk)   01:14, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Got one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:45, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Cast and characters
This is not a reliable source because it used a Twitter post from an unverified Twitter account. I am not sure why it is getting readded repeatedly. — Young Forever (talk)   01:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think TheDirect is reliable in its own right regardless, and even if the tweet could be used, they don't state about Barton's kids, so TheDirect was inferring that from the pictures, which might not always be correct. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:08, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Can we add actors who play Barton's children to the cast? They are seen on the filming pics BrandtM113 (talk) 19:21, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * You ask this in the very discussion thread talking about why they aren’t being added... Rusted AutoParts  19:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Hm, OK, let's wait till someone confirms it BrandtM113 (talk) 07:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Is NYC filming the start of filming?
I know we have the Georgia Film Commission source saying the series is in production there, but based on what Renner was teasing leading up the NYC filming, I'm tended to be inclined to think this NYC filming is the start for location shoots, and then it will move down to Atlanta for the studio work. The Georgia site could have stated such because it's very likely crew is working down there to prep for the shooting. Would anyone be opposed to shifting our info in the lead and filming section to reflect that filming started in NYC, and will move to Atlanta? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If we aren't sure, we can just say that filming began by late November without giving a location, then we can say filming took place in New York City in early December, and then filming also took place at Trilith. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:14, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Saying that filming began in NYC before moving to Atlanta sounds fine to me. I know Marvel film a lot in Atlanta, likely because of tax credits. 81.96.245.175 (talk) 15:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Jeremy Renner announces "Hawkeye" has wrapped filming
Per Screenrant, Jeremy Renner has announced on his Instagram stories that "Hawkeye" has wrapped filming today: https://screenrant.com/hawkeye-show-filming-updates-wrap-jeremy-renner/.

I'm hoping we can add this in to the series' Wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelDisney20 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 11 July 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn per WP:SNOW. Strong consensus for this to not move. -  Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Hawkeye (2021 TV series) → Hawkeye (TV series) – Comparing this article against the only other Hawkeye television series (Hawkeye (1994 TV series)), I believe this 2021/Marvel Studios series is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. From June 1 until July 5, this page is averaging about 4,000 daily views (which will only increase in time), while the 1994 series was averaging 145 daily views. Naming conventions (television) states the year as a disambiguator option when dealing with multiple series of the same name, which is why this article was named as such to start, but I clearly feel this is a PRIMARYTOPIC instance and we should not have the extra disambiguation here. A reader searching for "Hawkeye TV series" will very likely want to end up here. Should this be make, a hatnote will be added to direct to the 1994 series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:PDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 20:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I was not aware of PDAB, but per what I noted in my request, wouldn't WP:PDABPRIMARY apply as I've pointed out, similarly to the Thriller example? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Exceptions to the PDAB rule are made on a case-by-case basis, and are rarely uncontroversial. Thriller (album) itself went through 7 RMs. 162 etc. (talk) 00:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose There isn't much point to having a disambiguation if it doesn't actually clear up the ambiguity between the topic and others of the same name.--Yaksar (let's chat) 21:10, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per Favre's nom and WP:PDABPRIMARY, as this seems to be the primary topic already and is most definitely going to grow in views as we get closer to its release and after. I'm sure most readers, as evident by the page views Favre provided, are mainly looking for this Hawkeyes series, but if they are looking for the 1994 series, the disambig notice that would be placed at the top of this article would suffice in guiding them to their destination. This seems to be a similar case to the naming of The Irishman and The Irishman (1978 film), with the more notable topic being considered the primary. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:25, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not an example of a PDAB, as The Irishman is an undisambiguated primary topic. That would be like moving Hawkeye (2021 TV series) → Hawkeye, which I also oppose. 162 etc. (talk) 00:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose - I'd call this recentism if this particular series was even airing yet. -- Netoholic @ 02:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Netoholic.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 08:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above. Even as a fan of the MCU, I'm starkly opposed to this move. We don't typically do WP:PARTIALDABs, except in INCREDIBLY RARE specific examples — exceptions rather than the norm. "Thriller (album)" is an incredibly rare case. Paintspot Infez (talk) 14:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Paintspot and Netoholic. IronManCap (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Paintspot. —El Millo (talk) 16:56, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose and retract prior stance. Even though this is very much going to be the primary topic, it's very difficult for me to see a justifiable reason to make this move, especially following responses from above. Yes, most readers searching for a Hawkeye TV series will likely want to go to this article, but I can't honestly see how that would be difficult with the current disambig in place. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per everyone above. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Vincent D’Onofrio as Kingpin rumors.
According to the Direct.com there’s been talks from the Marvel Studios/Reddit that Vincent D’Onofrio may be reprising his role as Wilson Fisk/Kingpin. Shouldn’t that be included in the casting section or not? Look I don’t know how this works I’m just asking.0Detail-Attention215 (talk) 12:16, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Reddit and The Direct are not reliable sources. We only include characters as hidden if a reliable source (such as Deadline Hollywood, The Hollywood Reporter or Variety) notes it as a possibility, and only unhide them if a reliable source confirms their appearance. IronManCap (talk) 13:04, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Steve Rogers's Musical
This was added in the cast section but is this necessary? This look nowhere to be important Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 07:51, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, as it confirms that stage actors will play the in-universe actors in the play, which is relevant to the section. IronManCap (talk) 18:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * 👍 Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 01:37, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Brian d'Arcy James as Derek Bishop
He confirmed his role on Marvel's social media last night at the premiere JDA 78 (talk) 20:13, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm aware, but we need a reliable source to support this (not the tweet). InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Dalton's description of his character
In an interview, Dalton revealed that his character in Hawkeye will not be the same as the one in the comics, saying, "You know, like for example, Jack [Duquesne] was Clint's mentor in the original ones. And that's something that is completely not happening in this one." So I will remove the character's description from the cast list until his character's role in the series will be revealed in the future. Centcom08 (talk) 01:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Kate Bishop's Age
If Kate was 10 years old (stated in intro to S01E01) on May 4 2012 (the date of the Chitauri Invasion as per the Avengers movie), and, as the series takes place in "the present day" as per the post-intro in S01E01, which is five years after today (due to the five-year length of The Blip), the series would thus be set at Christmas, 2026, making Kate 24 or 25 years old, not 22. Right? 2001:569:FB61:D700:9822:1636:AB09:11A9 (talk) 10:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Your math is wrong.
 * Kate was 10 years old in 2012 and jumping to present day (Christmas 2023)
 * She would have been 22 years old (if it is before her birthday) or 23 if it was after the birthday Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 11:21, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Both calculations are wrong since we don't know when the series takes place and whether or not Kate Bishop was blipped. Regardless, all this is original research and can't be used. —El Millo (talk) 20:10, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The director said it's 2 years after the events of Endgame (here) but that could mean Christmas 2024 or 2025 depending on how he's rounding off since the events didn't happen in the same month... which would be 22 or 23 years from 2002 without being blipped. So, there's no error or anything worth debate.— Starforce13  23:29, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This source says she's 22, and this source says she survived the Blip. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Timeline conflict
After initial reports that the series takes place 2 years after Endgame, Rhys Thomas posted a tweet here clarifying that it's 1 year after Endgame, which would better match Kate Bishop's age of 22 in the present day of the series. - Richiekim (talk) 23:56, 26 November 2021 (UTC)


 * It was already fixed by El Millo. Centcom08 (talk) 23:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Reviews
The Reception section includes the text "Richard Trenholm of Cnet gave the film a positive review " but this show is not a film, it is a mini-series. The review was only of the first two episodes so it should say "Richard Trenholm of Cnet gave the first two episodes a positive review". I would have gone ahead and fixed this already only the article is locked, so please fix it. -- 109.79.172.92 (talk) 06:53, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * —El Millo (talk) 07:01, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Only ✅. I suggested a specific wording "two episodes" but editor went with something different, it was an understandable change but it reinforces the positive bias caused by reviewers only getting one or two episodes for review and places like Rotten Tomatoes misrepresenting that as applying to the whole series.
 * When all six parts have been released the section may need to be entirely rewritten.
 * It remains to be seen if Hawkeye will stick the landing. -- 109.79.172.92 (talk) 15:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Yelena Belova
Yelena Belova is currently listed in the cast of characters. The writer of the cited article assumes that her character's next appearance will be in the Hawkeye show, but that specific detail is not confirmed by any direct source. We know she'll be hunting Hawkeye, but is this source explicit enough to merit the character's inclusion at this time? As of episode 3, Yelena has not appeared.--GimmeChoco44 (talk) 03:40, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * She can remain in the list per MOS:TVCAST until her appearance is made: New casting information for forthcoming characters should be added to the bottom of the list, with their position readjusted if necessary based on the method defined [at TVCAST]. Given who she is, she'll definitely be in the billing of the episode, so she'll be a bulletted cast member. And since we don't have any other known actors who would also fit that bill, she is just the sole one at the bottom of this list at the moment. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:24, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * About "not confirmed", @GimmeChoco44, how about this? IKhitron (talk) 00:14, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This new source says: "Though the character's face was not shown, the all-black ensemble... looks very similar..." That's still speculation.--GimmeChoco44 (talk) 01:44, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The sourcing on the page is perfectly fine until she actually appears. We don't need to try and find anything to confirm anything else. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:33, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Cast listing
@Shooting Spirit 007: Kindly avoid engaging in an edit war without stating your defense. Florence Pugh is introduced in episode 4, hence her name is listed at the end of the list. Kindly check the cast breakdown on the article's talk page. Centcom08 (talk) 06:58, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Understood. But it is worth mentioning that she reprises her role from Black Widow. If you can see, I have written it there in her character description. Thanks. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 07:15, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Poster for episode 1
Can be seen in the article about Shaiman and Wittman on Marvel.com. It's specifically promoting the two-episode premiere and could be used as the infobox image for a potential article on episode 1. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:02, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Favre It is only new poster for Hawkeye series. Not a poster for Episode 1 though. Same thing with other series Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 02:56, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Until a more episode-specific poster is released, I would say this is the best option we have. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:55, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok I might agree with you Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 05:05, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, it looks like the poster art series is starting again. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:09, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

So any ideas on which posters to use for each episode? This one and this one were released before the premiere, but then this one released afterward also appears to be for the first two episodes. And then there's this weird motion poster for Episode 3, plus this earlier one that isn't part of the art series. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Cast Member Order Changed
Hi. I changed the cast member order as per the end credits. Requesting you not to change it. Thanks Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:MCUTVCAST and MOS:TVCAST, thanks. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Dedicated pages for each episode
Will there be dedicated pages for each episode like those that have been done for other Marvel Studios Disney+ series? 2406:3003:206F:1BE9:4577:B6BB:95E4:9006 (talk) 06:50, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes. Currently, they are on draft. Centcom08 (talk) 06:55, 10 January 2022 (UTC)