Talk:Hay–Pauncefote Treaty

Coastwise trade
I think the habit of using American interchangably with United States (of America) creates an ambiguity in this article with regard to coastwise trade. Undoubtedly the proposed toll exemption of 1912 was for U.S. ships going between ports of the United States, but did it also cover U.S. ships going between U.S. and/or Canadian and/or Mexican and/or Central and South American ports? Bob Burkhardt (talk) 15:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "American" no longer used. I did edit out the rather antique word "coastwise", used at the time but not recognized now I don't think. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the follow up edits. The article reads a lot more clearly now. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 19:01, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Timing of Grey protest
RE: "Sir Edward Grey, the British Foreign Secretary, lodged a protest and claimed that the act discriminated against British and other foreign vessels in contravention of the Treaty, and requested that the Senate forgo action on the bill in order that a detailed statement might be sent, but President Taft signed the Act on 24 August."

Did Grey lodge a protest before the Act passed the Senate?

According to the New York Times of June 19, 1912: Grey told the House of Commons he was "watching the progress" of the bill that passed the House of Representatives on May 23 "but was unable to estimate to what extent British interests and treaty rights were affected by it until the bill passed the Senate and assumed its final form. Until then he thought that there was no ground for making representations on the subject to the United States Government." In a July 17 story, Grey tells the Commons that some features of the bill before the Senate "would not be consistent" with the Hay–Pauncefote Treaty and therefore his Majesty's Government "has thought it right to point out these objections to the Government of the United States in order that they might be taken into account while the bill is under consideration." According to the Times he makes this statement in response to a friendly question in order to forestall "premature and perhaps provocative discussion." On 4 September Grey writes to the Newcastle Chamber of Commerce that he is "making representations" to the U.S. Govt. On 10 October, Grey specifically reports that Great Britain "had expressed its view of the H-P Treaty while the Panama Canal bill was in progress, but it was impossible to make a final communication in regard to the bill, which was then being shaped."

He definitely lodged a protest in December (in the next paragraph), but while the Senate is considering the bill, he did something different. Raised concerns? Registered concerns? Made representation? Gave the U.S. a heads up? Also, the entry presents Grey as a solitary actor with no sense of an aroused Parliament or British public opinion.

Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)