Talk:Haym Salomon

Comment
Mr. Solomon played a very minor role, if any, in helping the American cause. He traded securities between NY and Philadelphia. His son or grandson discovered this and made up the Solomon story. Do not let the facts get in the way of a good story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.65.0.68 (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC) Take it in in your thick low IQ head. Solomon helped tremendously the revaluation as far financing is concern. If you have proof otherwise then represented here or shut up with propaganda§§. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.225.211.189 (talk) 18:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

As it is said, amateurs argue tactics, professionals argue logistics. One cannot pursue a prolonged campaign of any kind without backing. LTC (Ret.) David J. Cormier (talk) 23:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Under Commemoration, I removed the URL at the end of the first paragraph because it appears to have been hijacked by gambling site.73.32.141.54 (talk) 16:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Controversy
According to the interviewing made in Can Wikipedia Ever Make the Grade? there is a controversy regarding his money being lent to the US government during the revolution war. I belive Thural investigation is in need. Lord Metroid 09:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of last name
I tend to believe this page should be on Haym Salomon instead of Solomon. DreamGuy 19:12, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * Let it be. It makes absolutely no difference as the spelling was interchangeable, and both "Solomon" and "Salomon" are Jewish spellings of the same name. IZAK 13:33, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but Wikipedia policy is to go with the one the person is best known by... That seems to be the other spelling. DreamGuy 15:44, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

This guy was out for a buck. Sure he did not see all the money paid back in his lifetime, it went to his kids. Duh.

 * Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, the United States actually becoming a successful nation was very much in doubt. If not for the assistance of France, the luck and morality of Washington, and the foiling of the Newburgh Conspiracy, the United States would probably have never existed.  For you to imply that a businessman like Solomon would consider the U.S. a way to make a buck only shows your complete ignorance of American history.  American independence was about the worst possible investment in the world in the 1770's.  -Kasreyn 02:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kasreyn completely. Whoever posted that "he did it for a buck" has no knowledge of American history. Also, whoever said that, next time before you say something really stupid and outrageous like that, do some research! Okay!?! Psdubow 22:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment
I don't think they were ever repaid. But I went to this page to ask someone to improve this article. Wikipedia is GREAT, but this article isn't. The first part is almost identical to the article in virtualogy: http://www.virtualology.com/virtualwarmuseum.com/revolutionarywarhall/HAYMSALOMON.COM/ Then there's a misspelling and poor usage on this line: "but he bribed his jailer and escaped to Philedelphia. It was during this period of incarceration where he contracted tubercolosis."

(Philadelphia, where) There are no personal details about him like this site has: http://www.nps.gov/revwar/about_the_revolution/haym_salomom.html And, lastly, I agree with the poster who says the main spelling of his last name should be Salomon, with a note of alternate spelling. Jane Giraldo

More on spelling
Someone has gone through and changed every instance of "Solomon" to "Salomon". Problem is, the article title is still Solomon. I personally don't care one way or the other, and don't know of any particular evidence than one or the other spelling is considered "correct". However, the article should be self-consistent.

There are two options I see: Either restore all the instances of "Salomon" (except the aka bit) to "Solomon", or rename the article "Salomon" and redirect. I'd prefer to just restore the spelling than rename the article. If no one replies in one week I'll do that. Kasreyn 00:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography has Solomon as the article title and Soloman as a variant but not Salomon.--Newport 16:51, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Merger
I think such a merger is a good idea. ---Charles 03:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Below is the text from the other article.

Haym Salomon

Salomon, Hayim (1740-1785) was an American Revolutionary Patriot who immigrated to the United States from Poland in 1772 at the age of 32. When the Revolutionary war broke out, he sided with the revolutionaries and was imprisoned by the British in 1776. In 1778, he escaped to Philadelphia and became an agent to Robert Morris, a financier of the war. He loaned money to Morris, Jefferson, Madison, and other patriot leaders. At the time of his death, over $600,000 was still owed and not repaid. First, his son, and subseqently other family members, petitioned that it be repaid. Later, the demand for payment was abandoned, but his descendants simply requested that congress issue a commemorative metal, which was never done (although a commemorative stamp, shown on this site, has been issued). A Jewish community in Chicago honored him with a park statue in 1941. Statutes in his honor have also been erected in Los Angelos and New York. I'm going to add a redirect. --evrik 15:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Peer review 1; Did he really lend money to the government?
According to Roy Rosenzweig at CHNM the money only passed through his accounts and the "fact" stated here is a myth. Comments? - Trevor MacInnis (Talk | Contribs) 15:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

He says the same thing in this article too: http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php+id=z6xht2rj60kqmsl8tlq5ltqcshc5y93y

Psdubow 21:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That same article says that the version here corresponds to other encyclopedias. --evrik 15:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * But he means that they all have it wrong. I wonder what his source is? - Trevor MacInnis (Talk | Contribs) 19:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I wonder what his source is too! Like Evrik said, that same article says that the version here corresponds to other encyclopedias. Also, I looked at around 6 or 7 other Internet sources and none of them assert Mr. Rosenzweig's claim. Also, I am in the middle of reading Haym Solomon Son of Liberty and so far the author, Howard Fast, isn't asserting Rosenzweig's claim either. Psdubow 21:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out the RR article :) It is an academic publication and as such more reliable then 'another encyclopedia entry', I suggest we cite him and use his version.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 18:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The source on this is the entry on Solomon in American National Biography by McManus (a professor of history at Queens College) who writes: "These brokerage arrangements, which were common at the time, later gave rise to the myth that Salomon advanced vast sums of his own money to the United States. The funds transferred to the government belonged to the government and only passed through his hands."

If this is true, then the article should be re-written. Pretty much the entire article pushes forth the idea that Solomon gave vast sums of his money..at the very end of the article it is mentioned that it was not his money to begin with Flyerhell 15:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Peer review 2 & poor bibliography
Same peer review here, a June 2006 article from the Journal of American History which advice certainly should be heeded. It also says: "The bibliography for Haym Salomon contains only two works, both published more than fifty years ago. Of one of those books, American National Biography Online warns that it “repeats all the myths and fabrications found in earlier accounts." As dates are not given for the bibliography, they should, and this book removed, with a note left on the talk page explaining why. Tazmaniacs 17:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This article is mentioned as containing false information in The Chronicle for Higher Education. --ScienceApologist 16:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I finished writing a historiographical dissertation on the evolution of the Haym Salomon myth in December, 2006. The most important source relating to the validity of most of the chief claims surrounding Salomon's life is a letter, entitled Haym Salomon, The Patriot Broker of the Revolution: His Real Achievements and their Exaggeration: An Open Letter to Congressman Celler, written by Max Kohler in 1931. Among other things, Kohler was a brilliant member of the American Jewish Historical Society. He led an unprecedented research project in the late 1920s that was initiated by the the NYC Municipal Arts Commission in response to the Federation of Polish Jews in America, which advocated that the first Haym Salomon monument be built in Madison Square. The findings are shocking to anybody acquainted with the "facts" surrounding Salomon's fame, and they have largely been hidden from public view due to lack of interest and deliberate concealment.

It is important to note that the seminal modern source for the Salomon myth was the "biography" written by Russell in 1931 (to which Kohler responded with his "Open Letter"), which was ably and thoroughly discredited by Kohler and any other historian with half a brain in his or her head. Two of the books listed in the bibliography on the Salomon Wikipedia page are actually children's books that dramatize and embellish the lies propogated by Russell in his book. It is sad to see the distortions infused into popular consciousness by Russell's book, and it is unfortunate that Kohler's efforts to counteract it were derailed. Someday I hope to edit Wikipedia with the appropriate sources to help correct the Salomon story once and for all. -Scott Hassall, Rochester NY, 5/17/200774.34.14.183 04:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Patriot
"Acting as the patriot that we was..." I presume here that one is a patriot when he never asks for return; certainly Mr. Solomon himself could have never accomplished this if he wasn't the well situated individual that you say he was, sir. The undertone from your statement there being: we should all give so generously; possible undertone: those who appear to have given too much – going far beyond their means – should shut up afterwards.

Is it possible, lets just say, that maybe some of those overly "generous" individuals were in fact just simply victims of grand larceny or theft? Because I see this often to be the case: persons who were thought to have been "generous" were in fact found to have been victims of some sort of scam to pilfer their lives and livelihood.

So please, do not opinionate your article in this way sir: with subtle messages and unsupported undertones to ominous "certain persons" of whom the rest of us have absolutely no idea to whom you are referring.

66.134.110.154 23:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

the name is Haym Salomon This article is from January 20, 1939 link: http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=80667_Haym_Salomon_122_789lo.JPG Note that it is from a public radio broadcast. They avoid a reasonable explanation of how he escaped, and even worse, where he got the money from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christos Varsos (talk • contribs) 03:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

External links section
I removed the following ELs for WP:EL and other problems. Some were already cited as references. Others might be appropriate to bring back as inline references supporting particular facts, so in case somebody wants to do so, I am pasting them (as ther were) here: Novaseminary (talk) 20:07, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Haym Solomon
 * Feldberg, Michael. "Haym Solomon: The Rest of the Story" Jewish World Review, 2001.
 * Blythe, Bob. "Haym Solomon." National Park Service, United States Department of the Interior. 2003.
 * "HAYM SOLOMON MONUMENT. Jew Who Helped Finance Revolution to be Commemorated." The New York Times, July 26, 1910.
 * Haym Solomon Monument information, Queens, New York.
 * Currency and Finance in the 18th Century : Bills of Exchange
 * Son of Liberty & 1973 Medal
 * Sons of the American Revolution
 * Haym Solomon honored as Interfaith Hero on ReadTheSpirit.com

Last two paragraphs, Finance section, questioned...
… because both lack citations, and the closing paragraph in particular because it is clearly a broad interpretation that cannot be considered common knowledge. LeProf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.179.245.225 (talk) 03:18, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 12 July 2014

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Haym Solomon → Haym Salomon – This is the spelling used by: all three images used in the article (a US stamp, a cemetery memorial plaque from the Salomon Lodge of B'rith Sholom, and a grave marker installed by his grandson, William Salomon); an image of an historical marker plaque at Mikveh Israel Cemetery used in that article; most other commemorations listed in the article. The article's usage should be internally consistent as well as consistent with the title, images, and majority of sources, all of which this move achieves. --Relisted. Armbrust The Homunculus 22:04, 19 July 2014 (UTC) —&#91;   Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 11:28, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support as nominator. Can someone close this AfD, merge this article with the redirect currently at the target (Haym Salomon), and create a redirect in its place, since there appears to be nobody else that cares, and my explanation above provides precedent? —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 22:24, 18 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Usage and sources support this spelling.  —  AjaxSmack   17:53, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Haym Salomon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160107030635/http://www.jewish-american-society-for-historic-preservation.org/images/Midstream_-_Haym_Salomon.pdf to http://www.jewish-american-society-for-historic-preservation.org/images/Midstream_-_Haym_Salomon.pdf

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