Talk:Headache/Archive 1

stabbing headaches
There doesn't seem to be any mention of stabbing type/icepick headaches Jarwulf (talk) 23:58, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

How common are headaches?
The article currently claims that toothache is more common than headache. This seems like an odd thing to say. Could someone cite a respectable source for it? --LostLeviathan 03:54, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree as well. Toothaches are much less frequent for the general population than headaches. There are many more factors that can cause headaches than toothaches, such as the amount of nerves for instance. Grandeandy 22:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

i third this. ive only had a couple of toothaches in my lifetime, but headaches happen all the time. we need a cite for that, or it gets removed. -- jeffth  e  jiff  17:57, 30 April 2006 (UT

headaches are more common headaches happen more than toothaches toothaches are nothing compared to headaches i have more headaches than toothaches and headaches dont just happen because your stressed or got alot on anyways i think headaches are more common

I agree--72.74.119.137 (talk) 00:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Dehydration
My Doc told me the main cause of headaches was dehydration.. is he a big fat lying doc or is there some truth to this womans words? --Irishpunktom\talk 13:38, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Probably not the main cause, but certainly one of the myriad causes of headache. I know I can get headaches when dehydrated - I notice this on fast days unless I have tapered my caffeine intake on the previous days (caffeine contributes to dehydration, as seasoned air travellers will tell you). JFW | T@lk  00:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I've read a number of scientific articles that discussed this. Dehydration certainly is one of the most common causes or contributing factors to headaches. I would like to request that people add more discussion of dehydration on this webpage. Check out this article:  That suggests that dehydration may even play a role in migraines. It's also interesting that some of the other common causes of headaches, including caffeine and alcohol, are both associated with causing dehydration. I am sure this has been studied in the literature...I'd like to request someone who knows more to try to incorporate this into the discussion. Cazort (talk) 21:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know that drinking water almost always cures my headaches, but maybe it's the placebo effect.  Tisane  talk/stalk 04:10, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Cause?
Thank you headaches are mostly IDIOPATHIC...

It is my view that headaches are mostly...IDIOPATHIC. And the doctor who suggests that toothaches are more common than headaches is, in all probability, idiotic.


 * An interesting statement. So people have pain in their head, sometimes very severe and disabling, and you are suggesting it is idiopathic? Which doctor suggests that toothaches are more common? I'd say the opposite. Headaches are extremely common and underreported. Most are tension-related, with important other causes being the vasculogenic headaches such as migraine, and rare emergencies such as meningitis and subarachnoid haemorrhage etc. JFW | T@lk  13:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

No. I am not suggesting that very severe and disabling pain in the head is idiopathic. And yes, headaches are extremely common and underreported.


 * I'll suggest that JFW doesn't know what idiopathic means 220.239.3.147 11:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * On the point of idiopathy and the idiopathic causes of human headaches, it is interesting to note the following quote "In his book The Human Body, Isaac Asimov noted a comment about the term "idiopathic" made in the 20th edition of Stedman's Medical Dictionary: "A high-flown term to conceal ignorance.""  In most probability, ignorance of the state of one's self at a particular time - ie: the scientific cause of headaches would not be that they are spontaneous but, rather, that they are likely to be caused by some objective and repeatable mechanism/s (which may be so complex as to obscure the cause of the headaches so that its cause appears unknown).

CountNihilismus (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed external links:
I poropose that the following external links be added to this article:


 * WHA: World Headache Alliance
 * ACHE: American Council For Headache Education

The WHA is the patient/community branch of the International Headache Society, the international medical association for health care professionals who treat head pain disorders. The WHA site provides information and support for headache sufferers on an international level.

ACHE is the patient branch of the American Headache Society. The purposes of their Web site is to provide education for both patients and for health care professionals who do not avail themselves of the education available through the American Headache Society.

I do not know the membership figures for either organization, but membership is not required to access and utilize the resources of their Web sites. Membership figures for the NHF, which is already linked to, are also unknown. They, however, limit acess to parts of their site to paid members only.

Both the WHA and ACHE sites are HON Code accredited.

Thanks, --TeriRobert 18:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Could you provide the Alexa rank for both? Will you also follow up my recommendation (on your talkpage) to contribute original content to the article in addition to external links? JFW | T@lk  09:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand the importance Alexa rankings. Would you mind helping me understand it? For that matter, I'm looking at Alexa now, and I'm not sure what it is that you want. Is it the Traffic Rank? If so, the ACHE rank is 363,477; the WHA rank is 2,655,720. If that's what is being requested, I don't understand. Traffic rank has nothing to do with quality of site content and value.

As for contributing to original content, I asked you on my talk page about adding content on types of headaches not covered here, but you didn't answer me. I've contributed to both Migraine and Rebound Headache since we last communicated.

Do you, by any chance, feel more comfortable with edits when you know something about the person making the edits? If so, you can read my bio at About.com.

Thanks,

--TeriRobert 14:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * So it seems ACHE receives a reasonable bit of traffic compared to the WHA. Traffic rank indicates popularity - people do tend to go for higher-quality content instead a teenager's "my headache" GeoCities page.
 * I had a look at your profile, and I admire the work you are doing for patients with chronic headaches. I strongly agree with the concept of patient-physician partnership and the importance of education. Having dealt mainly with acute headaches, I feel strongly that it may be harmful to medicalise certain problems. Sometime a doctor needs to be a teacher (docere is to teach) rather than ordering one test after the other. JFW | T@lk  09:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Right, of those two, ACHE definitely has more traffic. It's an older site, and people in some of the countries to whom the WHA offers support have populations who don't have the prevalence of Internet access that's become so common in areas such as the UK and North America. Would you be OK with adding both sites though since the WHA site does have international information that's unique to their site?

Thanks for looking at my work and your comments. I love to meet doctors who feel "a doctor needs to be a teacher." Those doctors really do seem to be great with treating headache disorders with good results. Certainly, I think patients who have an internal locus of feeling they need to take responsibility for their health and successful treatment do better than those with the external locus who want their doctors to simply give them a prescription that will make it all better.

Regarding the Headache article, I don't see much to be added to that page itself, but I think we could do with adding a couple of related articles such as Chronic Daily Headache, New Daily Persistent Headache, and perhaps a couple of others. What do you think?

Thanks,

--TeriRobert 03:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Clinical differentiation
It may be relevant here - JAMA this week has a lovely article in the "Rational Clinical Examination" series how to distinguish migraines by five simple history questions, as well as identifying patients who need a CT scan to exclude intracranial haemorrhage/other structural causes. Abstract. I may include this later. JFW | T@lk  09:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Intersting Abstract. Thanks. I've bookmarked it to go back and read the article. It looks like something that would interest my readers, so I may want to write on it. Just spent a couple of days in the hospital, so I'm a bit behind. Darn, but I hate getting behind. Thanks again!

--TeriRobert 03:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Diagnosis
I have added a section on basic clinical skills into the diagnosis section. CT and MRI are of little value in the diagnosis of most headache patients. Of far greater value is a careful history. This is probably just as well, as the vast majority of the world's population do not have ready access to these technologies. Jbelsey 09:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. I completely agree. Well done too for inserting the reference to the superb JAMA article on the POUNDing scoring system. JFW | T@lk  16:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Fatality
I'm not medical but surely the assertion that "although more than 95% of headaches are not life-threatening" is entirely misleading. I have had thousands of headaches in my life so the next one is likely to be fatal. (yes I know stats doesnt work like that).

But this figure of 95% could just as easly by 99% or 9% - this assertion says nothing.

Can a medic confirm my view ..... break it to me gently I might be on my 96th headache ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Victuallers (talk • contribs) 19:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Tylenol?
Tylenol isn't internationally know brand name, especially in non-English countries people don't have a clue what your talking about.

i just removed it Tylenol isn't developed, it has been there way before Tylenol was there and are tons of generic products on the market with the same combo (brand name removed).. Markthemac 14:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

"Benign and self-limiting"
I think it would be beneficial to review the statement, "The vast majority of headaches are benign and self-limiting," and the types of "headache" listed there. Migraine increases risk of both stroke and heart attack, and there is now research suggesting it may be a progressive brain disease (Mark C. Kruit, MD; Mark A. van Buchem, MD, PhD; Paul A. M. Hofman, MD, PhD; Jacobus T. N. Bakkers, MD; Gisela M. Terwindt, MD, PhD; Michel D. Ferrari, MD, PhD; Lenore J. Launer, PhD. "Migraine as a Risk Factor for Subclinical Brain Lesions." JAMA. 2004;291:427-434). So, should migraine be referred to as "benign and self-limiting? I don't think so.

--TeriRobert 16:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

hello, i'd like to draw your attention to the fact, that the article on headache says: "After migraine, the most common type of vascular headache is the "toxic" headache...", whereas the article on toxic headache starts with: "A toxic headache is the least common type of vascular headache..."

Cheaper then doctor?
I'm not sure if this article gives a world wide view on it's treatment as it states "The amitriptyline is more cost-effective as it is cheaper than the cost of visiting a doctor,". In some countries such as the UK health care is free and visiting a doctor is free. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FalcHedgehog (talk • contribs).

Proposed external link
I propose that an additional external link is added to this page: Lifting the Burden - the Global Campaign to reduce the burden of headache. http://www.l-t-b.org

This organisation is a global campaign to bring better healthcare to people with headache and is a collaboration of a number of partner organisations: the World Health Organization (WHO), the International Headache Society (IHS), the European Headache Federation (EHF) and the World Headache Alliance (WHA, the global patient organisation).

The aim of the Global Campaign is to understand the scope and scale of the burden caused by headache in all parts of the world and put in place projects to alleviate it region by region.

Liftingtheburden 16:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC) Liftingtheburden

Headaches and Memory/IQ, etc...
Has anyone ever carried out any studies to determine if individuals with higher/lower IQs are likely to get better or worse headaches (my logic is that, the higher the IQ, the better the health of the brain, hence, the less painful/severe/frequent the headaches). What about headaches which are accompanied by amnesia/memory problems/forgetfulness - are such headaches just as common as 'normal' headaches - or are they likely to be accompanied by health problems, etc...? Are certain diets more closely correlated with headaches (I think that the answer here is yes)? Are certain groups more likely to suffer from severe headaches (there are probably genetic/ethnic variations, etc... in headache types and causative mechanisms). I do not think that the article mentions issues which relate to whether headaches which are accompanied by memory problems are more likely to be dangerous or indicative of underlying causes.

CountNihilismus (talk) 00:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This sort of question is more suited to the Reference Desk, so in future i'd recommend asking such questions there :) However, I'll respond to your question. Firstly, i'm not sure if there have been any studies to show higher IQ's suffer from less headaches, but I know there was at least one study which stated that the higher your IQ was, the less chance you had of a hangover. Not sure if that's entirely true or not. Secondly, no, headaches with symptoms such as amnesia and memory problems are not as common, but they are still common. They are usually caused by different etiologies than 'normal' headaches, though. I'm unsure about the diet question. There are no doubt certain genetic variations which cause syndromes with headaches, but i'll be damned if I know what they are off the top of my head. Regards, CycloneNimrod Talk? 21:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Apparently not. See: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs11916-007-0233-1.pdf Deleet (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

What happens to cause a headache?
I'm no expert at this topic at all, and maybe I have overlooked something in the article, but is there anyone that can actually explain what causes a headache. There is information on "traction" and "irritation" of blood vessels, but no explanation of what causes this to happen. I think an explanation of this would improve the article overall. Thankyoooo. --Nemodan 18:20, 27 December 2007 (GMT)
 * There is no single cause of a headache, there are tens of different classifications of headache and each can have one or more causes. In that sense, a headache is more a symptom that a medical condition. Regards, CycloneNimrod Talk? 21:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Adverse effects
This edit removed discussion of adverse effects of spinal manipulation with the change log comment "none of the other treatments list of warnings, safety issues, side effects, efficacy studies". I have added a brief summary of efficacy and safety issues for "natural" supplements so that justification is obsolete. It would be helpful to add further summaries for other treatments. Eubulides (talk) 20:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How about you add the adverse effects of NSAIDS, aspirin and other mainstream treatments as well? That will demonstrate a little editorial balance in the very least. Otherwise, I don't think it is necessary to mention adverse effect of each treatment as the reader can click through and ostensibly read that in the corresponding article. -- Levine2112 discuss 21:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

In the interest of neutrality it might be reasonable to do this. Once every little whole someone nukes her kidneys with analgesics. What kind of reliable source do you propose for this, Levine2112? And do you agree that we only need to mention the common side-effects (e.g. constipation for codeine)? JFW | T@lk  21:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree it'd be reasonable to talk about major effectiveness and safety issues for each form of treatment. Eubulides (talk) 21:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

McCrory et al. 2001 is older, not peer-reviewed, and summarized incorrectly
This edit restored mention in Headache of an older (2001) literature review that was not published in a peer-reviewed journal. This literature review cited many studies, but the Headache text discussed only one of the studies, and summarized the review's summary of this study inaccurately. (The study found that "amitriptyline was significantly better than manipulation at reducing headache severity during the 6-week treatment period; there was no significant difference between the two treatments for headache frequency during the same period" but somehow the text in Headache turned this into "patients who had received manipulation were significantly better than those who had taken amitriptyline for both headache frequency and severity".) At any rate, we should not be citing older non-peer-reviewed literature reviews when we have newer systematic and Cochrane reviews. Eubulides (talk) 20:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The text is taken directly from the source. Please review the source and do a "find" if necessary. -- Levine2112 discuss 21:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My previous comment quotes directly from the source. Clearly the old Wikipedia text is a misleading summary of what the source said on the subject. However, since that source is an older study and was not peer-reviewed, and we have newer reviews on the same subject that are peer-reviewed, the point is moot; there would be no reason for Headache to mention the source even if the summary was accurate. Eubulides (talk) 21:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

ICHD2
Will try to add an over view of the ICHD2. To compliment the NIH classification.-- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Symptoms not disease
A headache is a symptom not a disease and therefore this page should be more like Chest pain. Otherwise it just collects a hodgepodge of stuff that really belongs on other pages.-- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Removal of photo
Please see Talk:Ice-cream_headache, and comment if you wish. Badagnani (talk) 03:56, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I am in favor of removing the photo on this article. I think the picture is ridiculous... --70.181.148.245 (talk) 21:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The photo has no relevance whatsoever to the article - it should be removed ahpook (talk) 09:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. It's meaningless and doesnt help the reader in any way to understand the article's subject matter Alecjw (talk) 13:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Photo
Is it me or is the girl in the photo really hot, despite her apparant headache. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.56.204 (talk) 18:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah the girl is really hot... really... hot. I visit this page once a night. Is that odd? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.233.71 (talk) 06:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

vomiting
i often if the headache because very severe i vomit believe it or not.--Stephendwan (talk) 21:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Not unusual in migraine, but there are other causes for that combination so talk to your doctor. JFW | T@lk  21:40, 12 September 2009 (UTC)