Talk:Healing factor/Archive 1

Thor according to Marvel
Thor is a god, so he should be at God-like. T-1000 05:49, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Thor might be a "god", but he doesn't possess "Godlike" durability. He's always been listed at "Metahuman", which means that his body has roughly the same level of durability as a diamond. The vast majority of the Asgardian "gods" are "Superhuman", with only Hela and Odin being listed under "Godlike". Now, of course it can always be debated just because some people think it should be higher and all that, but let's not get into all of that anymore.

http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thor1jm.jpg

Link removal on list of characters/Questions about Superman
Is there any particular reason we're not putting the [ [ ] ] on the names of the characters? Also 140.144.175.145, Superman comes under the Metahuman category, not Godlike as he can't reassemble himself. Tzarius 22:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC) http://img415.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hyp28nn.jpg
 * Superman is not a Marvel character, but post-crisis DC writers use essentially the same guidelines for various powers of characters that Marvel writers do, although they aren't spelled out like they are in the Marvel Universe. However, in Marvel an alternate universe (Squadron Supreme) was created that was a copy of the DC Universe in which there was a character called Hyperion who is based closely on Superman. He had all of the same powers as Superman and had essentially the same personality and instead of being vulnerable to Kryptonite he was vulnerable to Argonite radiation. Hyperion is described as being Metahuman in durability just like Thor, so we can assume that Superman (who Hyperion was based on) would be the same.

Wolverine's Healing Factor: Where does it fit?
Yeah... so where does Wolverine fit on that list? He can regenerate limbs and organs, but otherwise he'd fit under Enhanced Human. Tzarius ScifiterX 05:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)'''
 * '''These are the actual marvel universe entries for Wolverine from the Marvel Universe that specifically state that the character has a Superhuman regenerative healing factor, not a metahuman regenerative healing factor and definitely not enhanced human. This is official Marvel canon.
 * http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wol22dm.jpg
 * http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolb21hp.jpg

The official canon in Marvel is that superhuman regenerative healing factors can regenerate eyes and flesh, but not totally replace VITAL organs. He has never been shown regenrating entire vital organs, he has only been shown healing vital organs and regenerating non-vital organs and tissues.ScifiterX 06:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Most people would argue that Wolverine falls somewhere between "Superhuman Regenerative" and "Metahuman Regenerative". There's no evidence that Wolverine can regenerate missing limbs, but it rather assumed that he would be able to since he's able to regenerate missing organs. He has repaired massive damage to organs, such as his kideneys and liver, that have left them non-functional. Under "Superhuman Regenerative", a character can heal from great tissue damage, blood loss, damaged brain cells, etc. but isn't able to regenerate missing organs or limbs.

So, since it's common knowledge that Wolverine is capable of regenerating his eyes, which are organs, he should be able to regenerate limbs as well. Wolverine's healing factor, during most of his appearances, appears to be too advanced for what Marvel designates as "Superhuman Regenerative", but seems fit nicely under "Metahuman Regenerative".


 * EYES ARE NOT VITAL ORGANS. Metahuman reg. means a character could TOTALLY regenerate an entire vital organ or limb. Superhuman reg. means that he can regenerate non vital organs and flesh. Superhuman regenerative also means the character can heal vital organs or limbs as long as they aren't entirely destroyed or removed (or immediately reattached if they are removed).

In some of Wolverine's earliest appearances, his healing powers did seem to be considerably slower than they have been within the past 15 years or so, on average. During the first Wolverine mini-series published in 1982, headed by Chris Claremont and Frank Miller, Wolverine suffered injuries that took roughly 2 months to fully heal, the worst of which was a being stabbed through the trunk by Shingen Yashida. Today, and for many years now, Wolverine has been written and drawn being able to heal injuries like those suffered during his fight with Lord Shingen within a matter of seconds.


 * The reason Wolverine took so long to heal from injuries inflicted by Shingen was that Wolverine's body had been saturated with extremely deadly poison, effectively compromising his superhuman regenerative healing factor. Shingen used poison tipped Shurikens to accomplish this before their initial duel and Wolverine had not fully recovered from the poison by time of their second duel in which he was impaled. In the Havok and Wolverine limited series Wolverine is nearly killed by bubonic plague poison which likewise compromised his regenerative healing factor for a time. Until his body can flush out the toxic agent his healing factor works at a very small fraction of what it normally does. This is only if the poison is extremely toxic, at least enough to kill 20 or so normal people. Also, the more physically active he is, the longer the poison stays in his body.

Wolverine cannot generate certain (i.e.: larger) organs that are removed from his body, such as his heart, as established in Uncanny X-Men Annual #11 (1986). Nightscream 9.5.05. 3:29am EST.

Since Wolverine's heart was ripped out during that particular issue, how was it that he survived? If I'm not mistaken, Wolverine made a statement that his healing powers were in every cell of his body, as was his will to live apparently, and his entire body was regenerated from a single drop of blood. The villain in this issue, the mysterious alien called Horde, appears to have some sort of reality warping or psionic capabilities. Throughout the issue, all of the X-Men are presented with "dreams" of the things that each of them want the most and "dreams" of what are their worst fears. This particular issue was somewhat confusing. Everything they experienced might simply have been some sort of elaborate illusion, including Horde's almost unbeatable physical strength. Due to the numerous examples of illusions and "dreams", this issue isn't very reliable for an attempt to examine the limitations of Wolverine's healing powers.


 * When Wolverine's heart was ripped out he was restored to life by a magical crystal. This had nothing to do with his healing factor. Had it not been for the Crystal he would have died.

Official Marvel Canon concerning Wolverine's Healing Factor
These are the actual marvel universe entries for Wolverine from the Marvel Universe that specifically state that the character has a Superhuman regenerative healing factor, not a metahuman regenerative healing factor. This is official Marvel canon. ScifiterX 05:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wol22dm.jpg
 * http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolb21hp.jpg

Okay, first off the definition of Superhuman Regenerative healing factor includes being able to regenerate organs such as eyes and massive amounts of flesh and even to repair vital areas of the body, but it does not include being able to entirely regenerate VITAL ORGANS like the heart. The EYES are not vital organs. Also it does not include being able to regenerate entire limbs. This is why in the Age of Apocalypse storyline Wolverine's hand did not grow back. It was totally disintigrated. If it had only been severed or seriously mutilated he could have re-attached it and it would have healed perfectly. Those are the Marvel Universe Entries. They are official canon. They clearly state Superhuman regenerative. ScifiterX 06:06, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone keeps changing Wolverine from Superhuman reg. to Metahuman reg. on the list
I have shown the actual Marvel Universe Entries here that show that the character has a superhuman regenerative healing factor. Since that is accurate that is what should be on the page. However, someone (who's IP address changes slightly every few days) has been going in and changing Wolverine from Superhuman regenerative to Metahuman regenerative which is not accurate. This person is probably doing this from a computer lab at high school or at the library. I would appreciate it if other people would also revert this inaccurate datam when they see it. ScifiterX 03:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wol22dm.jpg
 * http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolb21hp.jpg

Okay, "Sort by name" vs "Sort by category"
I'm a neutral third party in this matter, I'm only writing this as i've got the page on my watchlist and the constant reverts are annoying. So. Please vote as to whether the listing of superheroes and their respective categories should be in name order, or grouped by category. Tzarius 07:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Article Question
I have a question concerning the subject of the article. Is the healing factor article devoted only to comic book characters with accelerated healing powers or can it include fictional characters from other media like movie and television characters? I have a question as well: Where would Alexander Anderson (Hellsing) fit into this article?
 * The latter - SoM 01:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Focus of article
It seems that this is more of a list of characters with a healing facter than an article on healing factors. Is that really the intention or is it just a matter of fanboys out of control, listing every example they can think of? CovenantD 00:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

There was some attention focused on the healing factor itself at one time, at least when it came to the characters belonging to Marvel Comics. The durability listings, both the originals and new ones, were included in the article and where each of the listed characters fell. However, they were removed some time ago. I still don't really know why. Some have said that it's a violation of copyright, which I fail to see since nobody on the site was making money off it, claimed ownership, and referrenced that the ratings were taken from the OHOTMU. I think if copyright had been violated, then even starting the articles about any of the characters at all would have been a crime. Without including the characters that possess some form of healing factor, then there's not really much of an article to be had. As far as I know, healing factor is just a generic term that's used to indicate a character has some degree of enhanced healing that's beyond that of an ordinary human. I believe the term itself was coined by Marvel and others just sort of started using it as well.Odin&#39;s Beard

Does Spider-Man have a regenerative healing factor?
It was recently revealed that Spider-Man has to molt his skin like a real spider at least once during his life cycle. See "Evolve or Die" storyline. The first stage of this process was that he intermittently started to black out and lose his powers. Eventually, when he appeared to have been critically injured his body totally shut-down (appearing to die) and entered a state of dormancy, next he shed his skin and he later entered a cacoon-like stage, regenerated all damaged areas of his body such as an eye lost in a battle with Morlun. Next, he broke out of the cacoon fully intact.

So does that mean he has a regenerative healing factor? No. This was described as being an event that takes place once during his life cycle (possibly a few times if he is like Spider) and is not based on whether or not he has been injured, but on his biological time-clock. If he can only regenerate damaged areas of his body once or twice in his life, it is unique power, but it does not qualify as a regenerative healing factor such as possessed by Wolverine who regenerates damaged tissue any time he is injured. ScifiterX 20:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * True, but Spidey (and Cap) have over the years been shown to heal notably faster than regular humans. Nowhere near as good as Wolverine, but enough to make a difference. Dr Archeville 14:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Sabretooth
The enhancement to Sabretooth resulting in an increased healing factor described in the Weapon X comics could only have been done through gene therapy, not through mere surgical enhancement. Regenerative healing acts on a cellular level in all parts of the body and cannot simply be modified through surgery, even in a comic book. For this reason the augmentation needs to simply be mentioned as unspecified genetic augmentation, not surgery. The idea that he could be given surgery on ever cell in his body to give him a better healing factor is silly.

Not that I'm arguing with the gene therapy enhancement or anything, but isn't it rather foolish to call anything that occurs in a comic book "silly"? Marvel Comics' roster of characters include a giant alien humanoid with a helmet that makes his head look like a giant W that literally drains the life out of entire planets, living breathing mythological figures worshipped as actual "gods" thousands of years ago, alien geneticists that stand at least 2,000 feet tall while wearing various kinds of armor that obscures their features and can destroy planetary bodies with a gesture, and a being called the Beyonder that could do anything. I mean, quite literally, anything that he wanted to no matter how monumental the task might seem. No offense is meant, but considering that ANYTHING is possible in a comic book, it's a foolish statement to call something foolish.


 * I wasn't calling something that occured in the comic "silly", I was calling the misapprehension that the character could have a surgerical procedure (like an actress gets a boob job) to change his entire biological make-up "silly". Comic book writers are smarter than that. Give them a little credit.
 * It could have been a surgical procedure, if the surgical procedure involved implanting a some sort of cybernetic (or "technorganic") component that released nanite-like critters into his body to supplement his own regeneration. Dr Archeville 14:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Please alphabetize if you add characters
I like the alphabet, don't you? If you add a character to the list of those with a healing factor, please do so in alphabetical order. Thanks. Otto4711 05:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Godlike vs. Totally Indestructible
There doesn't seem to be a clear cut difference, or is it that Godlike is the regenerative counterpart of totally indestructible (durability) Disko 20:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

It's a bit confusing, and kind of ridiculous I suppose. Totally indestructible would render a character practically unusable and not very interesting. Basically, beings listed under here are generally abstract entities like Death, Eternity, Infinity, etc. or the Celestials or beings, like the Juggernaut, empowered by beings of vast power such as Cyttorak. I'd guess that totally indestructible would be indestructible to means available by humans or to even most alien races and could only be hurt or killed by certain beings bordering on omnipotence like some of those mentioned above. Godlike seems to be similar, few things can actually cause them injury, certainly nothing conventional. Certain "gods" have been at this level as well as the heralds of Galactus and can be injured by "mortals" although these "mortals" would have to be considerably powerful themselves or possess some kind of weaponry that could be effective. I dunno, like you said, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference when you look at it in comics overall.

Maybe godlike refers to a specific weakness like an Achilles heal or kryptonite? I honestly have no idea but it's a thought.--Teletran 19:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

It's kind of a moot point, at least now it is anyhow. This discussion was going on while stats were taken from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe were allowed to be used in the articles. Odin&#39;s Beard 19:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Tarzan
Added Tarzan yet again. I keep listing off he has survived getting his insides ripped almost completely out and shot in the head (both time surviving and healing easily) in the very 1st book alone! (Tarzan of the Apes) Will whomever is removing it please stop. BWANASIMBA 03:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless you can cite a reliable source that Tarzan has a healing factor, then Tarzan should not be added to this article. "Tarzan survived wounds that would kill a person" does not constitute a reliable source and is in fact original research. Otto4711 02:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Evangelions
Someone keeps adding Evangelion units to the "outside comics" list after I remove it. While some of the Angels could "regenerate" themselves over time, NONE of the Evangelion units were shown to be able to do this. Whenever they were damaged, Evangelions always had to be repaired. The only time I can think of an evangelion "healing" itself is two seperate instances while Unit 01 was going "berserk" and operated outside of the scope of what other Evas are capable of. No other Evas should be considered to have this ability, since they were never shown doing it. If someone INSISTS on adding Eva's to the list, then only Unit 01 should be on the list.Personally, I don't think any of the eva units need to be on this list, since unit 01's ability is not a major part of the story, or even consistenly shown. Either way only "some" Angels and Unit 01 could "regenerate" in any sense. (Animedude 04:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC))

Michael Myers
Since I have been challenged on a removal yet again, I will take it to the talk page. Michael Myers of the Halloween seires does NOT have a healing factor. He has never been shown on screen to heal from substantial damage in a rapid manner, such as Jason Voorhees, or even to be able to heal under certain situations, such as Freddy Krueger within dreams. Both these characters have been shown to be able to heal form massive damage and this ability has even been commented on within their repsected films. However, any instances where Micheal Myers has "healed" was simply continuty error. For example, Micheal has one of his eyes gouged out in Halloween, but has both eyes intact for the sequel. This is NOT an instance of Micheal "healing" the damage, but simply of film makers forgetting about it. It's a mistake, not an instance of super healing. Micheal Myers has never been considered more than a normal human in the Halloween series. Albeit a human devoid of all remorse, sanity or conscience, but a normal human nonetheless. He does not need to be listed.

It would seem the "outside of comics" sections is getting to crowded with unnotable entries, singulal instances of one character "healing" (i.e. a character is superpowered breifly and temporarily) and simple continuty errors which makes it appear the character "healed" (i.e. a character has an injury in one scene, which "dissapears" in the next). I suggest we get some guidelines for these lists. (Animedude 16:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC))


 * I'm willing to accept the possibility that you're correct. However, without a credible source to back up what you're saying, this sounds more like your personal opinion rather than actual fact. In the films, Myers is shown bouncing back rather quickly from injuries that should be either crippling or fatal with no sign of them afterward. A normal human being, for example, doesn't take one bullet after another to the chest and then get up and walk away moments later as if nothing ever happened. It's not so much as reaching a consensus as showing credible evidence of your viewpoint. For those that are of the opinion that he has some form of superhuman recuperative abilities, such as myself, the films are all the source required. If all the examples of his recuperative abilities in all the various films over the past 30 years are continuity errors, prove it.Odin&#39;s Beard 23:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The Bionic Woman?
Should the Bionic Woman be on here as well? Like the one from the new tv series? Or does the use of nanites make it not count? DougCube 03:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I see no reason why it shouldn't. Superhumanly fast healing is superhumanly fast healing. Superhumanly fast healing is superhumanly fast healing. It would be like saying she shouldn't be counted as having superhuman strength because of her bionic augmentations.Odin&#39;s Beard 23:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)