Talk:Health effects arising from the September 11 attacks/Archive 1

Vulnerable individuals and issues of documentation
This week an editor, Alcsul, substantively rewrote parts regarding the deceased nun. His revisions did not conform to the facts as provided by the New York Daily News article.

The major virtue of providing references is that they are verifiable. Dogru144 02:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Clearing the Air reference
The date given for Juan Gonzalez piece predates 9/11. Mistake? I'll do this when I have time. 68.122.239.20 03:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This is no mistake. This anonymous user was referring to a 9/10/2002 contribution by Juan Gonzalez to "In These Times", nearly a year after the 9/11/2001 event. Dogru144 14:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Poor choice in category removal
This was an industrial disaster: all kinds of chemicals were released into the air. This is causing deleterious health effects.

This was not a natural disaster; this was more an act of terror for one day, having an effect only on the victims present at the buildings prior to 9:30 AM that fateful Tuesday. Dogru144 23:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Toxic does not equal Industrial disaster.
Industrial disasters are mass disasters caused by industrial companies, either by accident, negligence or incompetence. While terrorism is a violent, shameful, tragic thing worthy of note when industry is attacked causing toxicity to people and the environment, it is not an act of an industrial company by any of the above. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.3.65.82 (talk) 00:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Reply & User:65.3.65.82, please sign
Your definition is POV. Of course this was a terrorism act; industrial disaster in this case cannot be denied. It is heavily documented in the article. Dogru144 01:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In this case, I agree with the IP. Looking at the contents of Category:Industrial disasters, it appears the criteria are that either
 * The primary site was industrial in nature (Kader Toy Factory Fire)
 * The trigger was industrial (Minamata disease).
 * The September 11, 2001 attacks were on commercial and governmental targets rather than industrial, so that rules out the former. And while the health effects were exasperated by industrial factors, the primary impetus behind the health effects was the attacks, which can't really be said to be industrial in origin. I'm not sure what you're referring to with regards to the "heavy documentation"; could you provide examples of why this article belongs in the category, where articles on similar attacks would not? GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 01:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Village Voice's critique of the New York Times
The Village Voice criticized the New York Times for being late to scrutinize the issue of illnesses and their relationship with Ground Zero. It favorably contrasted the New York Daily News coverage of the issue with the New York Times coverage. Dogru144 23:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Sixth anniverary public meeting
The following is from a NYS AFL-CIO website:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

This Labor Day, as we remember the contributions of working people, the heroes of 9/11, and those who so honorably protect our freedom and security here and abroad, we join together to address the long-term health needs, ongoing medical monitoring, treatment and compensation for first responders and other workers suffering from the long-term effects of 9/11.

Please join the New York State AFL-CIO, the New York City Central Labor Council and the Building & Construction Trades Council for a rally on Saturday, September 8, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. at West Broadway between Vesey and Barclay Street. . . . Hundreds of our active and retired employees from all across this state will gather to voice their support of proposed federal legislation which contains three main criteria: it will provide ongoing medical monitoring, treatment and compensation to workers and others adversely affected by the September 11th attacks.

Sincerely, Denis M. Hughes President NYS AFL-CIO 	Ed Malloy President NYC & NYS Building & Construction Trades 	Gary LaBarbera President NYC CLC Dogru144 04:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Take care when making links to foreign language wikipedia articles
An editor linked the German article for rescue and recovery to this one. That article did not address the health effects of 9/11. So, I removed the link. Dogru144 22:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ground zero workers and cancer
I made a small change to this section to recognize that some of these workers would have developed a blood cancer anyway. The article states that 75 out of 100,000 workers have developed a blood cancer. For a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, the normal rate for is approximately one new diagnosis per 10,000 adults each year. So in the last six years, we might have expected 60 of these workers dx'd with a leukemia no matter what. Given that, 75 new dx's is not that unreasonable an outlier on its face. No trained epidemiologist would make the mistake of assuming that working at Ground Zero made you immune to the normal level of disease. Consequently, I have added an appropriate level of weasel words. WhatamIdoing 00:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

James Zadroga
This case appears to be resolved, but it wasn't 9/11 dust that killed him. Rklawton 02:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not resolved. This is merely one doctor's opinion.  Other doctors contest the medical examiner's views. See Daily News story. . Dogru144 14:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Deaths of janitorial workers
Anonymous or newly established editors have removed references to cleanup workers that cleaned up "Ground Zero" dust, but who died subsequently, from various repiratory ailments. I have restored material re cleanup workers' deaths and the citations that support this material. Dogru144 (talk) 21:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Vague statement?
The link between the Ground Zero dust and the illnesses is a matter of dispute.

So, how is the following a "vague statement"?:

This is part of a larger debate over the number of people sickened by the collapse of the Twin Towers. Dogru144 (talk) 15:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
 * "emiendo" :
 * Emi Endo, "Sick 9/11 workers protest at Ground Zero" Newsday, 31 January 2007 http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/am-groundzero0201,0,1528416.story?coll=ny-main-bigpix

Ground Zero workers' lawsuit
Families of Ground Zero workers have filed a mass lawsuit against the city. Andrew Carboy of the firm, Sulivan, Pappain, Block, McGrath and Cannovo said of the deaths of Cesar Borja, James Zadroga, and Mark DeBiase, "If Borja, Zadroga and now DeBiase isn't a wakeup call for the city, I don't know what will wake them."

By June 2007, the number of people filing claims against the city, regarding exposure to Ground Zero toxins, reached 10,000. Attorney David Worby is leading a class action lawsuit representing 8,000 people. Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney - October Job Statistics Do Not Erase Dismal Bush Economic Record for Middle Class and Working Americans DumZiBoT (talk) 11:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Quality of edits; citations
Editors ought to identify themselves, rather than make edits from IP addresses.

Claims in edits should be supported by published (hard copy) or authoritative Internet sites. Dogru144 (talk) 01:43, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Article permanently semiprotected
Due to ongoing long term persistent vandalism by the anonymous editor behind http://wtcdemolition.blogspot.com/ and http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/ ("The WTC was nuked on 9/11"), the articles W54, David Worby, Suitcase nuke, and Health effects arising from the September 11 attacks have been permanently semiprotected. Only logged in editors with Wikipedia accounts who have been autoconfirmed (are at least 4 days old) can edit the articles from now. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Unbalanced tag
request edit

There has been substantial controversy over the characterization of the death of Cesar Borja, over alleged fraud committed by the law firm of Napoli Bern in bringing lawsuits, and the James Zadroga Act, but it is not reflected in this article. One can find much additional material to balance the article cited in my testimony to Congress about the bill. In addition, in 2008, the New Yorker published an extensive story on Zadroga that conclusively demonstrated that he did not die from the September 11 attacks. THF (talk) 21:43, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This tag is supposed to be used to request a specific edit-- Jac 16888 Talk 17:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Footnote concerning settlements
The settlements referred to in footnote 78 relate to lawsuits for wrongful death and personal injury suffered in the attacks: these litigants opted not to go into the Victim Compensation Fund. These settlements have been mentioned by Judge Hellerstein, eg in his ruling on October 28, 2009. Health claims by nearby residents and those involved in the subsequent rescue and clean-up are against different defendants in separate proceedings. Copper26 (talk) 13:33, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

New York City reaches 657.5m US with rescue workers
Someone with established user status please add this recent development to the page. --Dishcmds (talk) 14:08, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Possible Remains Current Event?
At the Fresh Kills Landfill the search for human remains has been resumed and fragments have been sent to the lab for analysis to see if they are human remains. I have tried to put up a Current Event Warning and it has been taken down twice. To me it is Current Event. It is an ongoing situation subject to change clearly. The information in the article has a decent chance to be inaccurate when the reader looks at it. If it is not a current event by Wikipedia guidelines, then if there is another template that would pass Wikipedia guidelines to warn the reader then it should be added to the article. If there is no Wikipedia Guidelines either one must be added or the current events guidelines need to be changed cover this type of situation. Leaving the reader unwarned is unconscionable in as matter of this importance. Please help. Edkollin (talk) 21:16, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Settlement
I didn't click on it but there's a major headline about this when I go to my Yahoo email. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I looked at an article, but this Wikipedia article is a mess. There are details of what may be various possible settlements but I don't know where the new information should go. I'm not really interested in cleaning all this up because I don't know what is related to which possible deal. I chose one heading and put my new information under it. If the other information belongs there too, I'd appreciate someone fixing it. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 14:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Lilanord, 25 May 2011
In the following section: Educators and students Students and staff at Stuyvesant High School returned to the school which lies within one-third of a mile north of the World Trade Center site, while fires were still burning at Ground Zero. Alumni are circulating a petition for greater attention to health problems related to the Ground Zero air.[70][71] There is a debate over whether the 2002 Class President Amit Friedlander's developing cancer is related to Ground Zero air.

ADD: In 2006, Stuyvesant alumni Lila Nordstrom organized StuyHealth, an advocacy group for 9/11-impacted Stuyvesant alumni and other area students. Amit has worked closely with this group in the battle to obtain monitoring and healthcare funding for students, area residents, and office workers who were present on or after 9/11.

Reference: Stuyhealth's website is: www.stuyhealth.org and it's facebook page is www.facebook.com/stuyhealth.

Lilanord (talk) 20:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Alpha Quadrant    talk    22:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Health effects in dogs
I ran across an article just now that reports that 5 years after 9/11, no rescue dogs involved in that event have developed any nasal cancer. These were dogs used to sniff out survivors, and they did not have any protective equipment. This seems to speak to the statement, premature deaths and other ailments of dogs in the area are "our canary in the coalmine" in the section on Ground Zero illness. I thought it was interesting, and I decided to bring it here for comments before adding it. --Joelmills 19:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC) Chevron killed the 9/11 first responders and much of lower Manhatten with the cancer causing chemicals in the Twin Towers. Genetic proof now exists that Chevron pumped, produced and processed almost all of the cancer causing petrochemicals in the Twin Towers and that they knew their compounds caused cancer decades ago. See:  http://petroleum-products-cause-cancer.weebly.com

and

http://911dust.org

(Please re-post) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.48.147.36 (talk) 17:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

What about the radiation poisoning?
What about the radiation poisoning? A lot of people around when the towers fell got radiation poisoning. I'm not sure what the source of it was, though. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 15:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair question. Dogru144 (talk) 01:43, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember seeing a video on youtube by rusian nuclear engineer Dimitri Khezelov that explains the radiation poisoning very well at 9/11 site.Snowonweb (talk) 03:00, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Radiation poisoning would explain 9/11 cancers, but it will never be officially accepted for obvious reasons, not even you are allowed to mention it in Wikipedia :(. They could treat the rescuers for radiation poisoning at least secretly ... 46.127.115.51 (talk) 09:14, 12 September 2011 (UTC)Organizm

Evidence?
What this article lacks are statistics supporting or otherwise the claims that the incidence of certain ailments have increased e.g. have the number of lung cancer cases per head of NYC population markedly increased over the period, given that 11 years later we'd have seen any lung damage turn into cancers? Can anyone find sources, so that we might have a section in the article that provides good evidence for or against the damage to health claimed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.28.101 (talk) 17:13, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

WTC Health Effects website to be added as link
I would like a link to my informative website added to the links section of this article. I wrote my graduate thesis on World Trade Center Health Effects with the help of Mt. Sinai Medical Center's WTC Medical Monitoring Program and created a webpage that contains posters, fact sheets with medical illustrations about health effects, an animation, and several other interactive pieces teaching about aerodigestive disorders. The link is http://www.erinneill.com/WTChealth/ 24.182.180.132 (talk) 00:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)Erin Neill

Editorial gutting of specific victims
Certain editors are gutting the article of references to various topics -gutted sections which do have ample documentation:
 * vulnerable individuals
 * volunteers as a topic
 * specific volunteers

Please justify edits on this Talk page. Dogru144 11:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Under Vulnerable Individuals is listed Sister Cindy Mahoney. She should be linked to her Wikipedia Page under the name of Cynthia L. Mahoney. Would you please see that this is done since this is a protected page. PrescottNead — Preceding unsigned comment added by PrescottNead (talk • contribs) 23:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I've successfully linked the page for Sister Cindy Mahoney. JZNIOSH (talk) 13:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

No basis for altering the quote found in the reference
The main page cannot be edited by anyone but the censor- please remove the extraneous qualifiers a previous "writer/editor" placed on quote "and 0.8% of the extremely toxic carcinogen asbestos" which is merely taken from the reference newspaper article wherein the quote states "0.8% asbestos". We don't really need to know the opinion of the "writer/editor" that this is an "extremely toxic carcinogen." Please remove the unsubstantiated qualifiers, or provide a valid reference.146.23.65.198 (talk) 22:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2014
Please add the semi protected tag

179.210.86.1 (talk) 09:03, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Technical 13 (talk) 15:38, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2018
Please add this to the book's listed here:


 * Jenna Orkin, "Ground Zero Wars: The Fight to Reveal the Lies of the EPA in the Wake of 9/11 and Clean Up" (2017), ISBN 978-1-5464-5325-3Heididehnckefisher (talk) 18:03, 25 March 2018 (UTC) Heididehnckefisher (talk) 18:03, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Duplicate request.  Sak ura Cart elet Talk 19:54, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2018
Please add to book list for this:
 * Jenna Orkin, "Ground Zero Wars: The Fight to Reveal the Lies of the EPA in the Wake of 9/11 and Clean Up" (2017), ISBN 9-781546-453243Heididehnckefisher (talk) 17:55, 25 March 2018 (UTC) Heididehnckefisher (talk) 17:55, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please address the ISBN error first. hiàn 03:25, 26 March 2018 (UTC)