Talk:Heaven Shall Burn/Archive 1

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 00:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Obscure ties to Lee Dorian?
What is meant by this insinuation? LaHaine 21:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Band name
Heaven Shall Burn's name is not inspired by the Marduk album, but in fact is derived from a poem by Heinrich Heine. This fact is displayed many places, including the band's web page. Please stop changing this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.87.105 (talk) 22:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

'''That's a wrong understanding guy, the album "Deaf to our Prayers" was inspired by a poem of Heinrich Heine. The Band's name comes from the Marduk album, it has also been said in an interview.'''

"Den Namen HEAVEN SHALL BURN haben wir vom MARDUK-Album "heaven shall burn...when we're gathered" geklaut. Das geschah aber nicht, weil wir nun besonders große MARDUK-Fans sind, sondern weil der Name für uns gut klang." http://www.metalnews.de/?metalid=04&action=show&intid=69 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.155.210 (talk) 12:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Proof of veganism
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=CetgH0dFclY

here you have the proof that all band members are vegan. But I don't know how to link it as a source. :/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.155.210 (talk) 12:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Also look in their bandmember-section on their website http://www.heavenshallburn.com/bandmembers.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.72.94.44 (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In a recent interview they say not all members are vegans anymore, although they remains vegetarians. See source: http://www.das-musikmagazin.de/musiknachrichten/interview-mit-heaven-shall-burn-in-karlsruhe --Sigurdas (talk) 12:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Another mistake in here...
They don't come from Munich! They are from Saalfeld, you can also hear it in their accent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saalfeld In all other wikis Saalfeld is given as the origin. And also they describe the football club 1. FC Jena as their "homies" on the Bonus DVD from Iconoclast, which is due to the geographical nearness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena (compare the two maps). The guy who wrote the "biography" is wrong! When you still aren't convinced: look at the bands official webpage: http://www.heavenshallburn.com/bandmembers.php klick on the names and look at "hometown": only two members are not from Saalfeld (Mathias is from Erfurt, and Mike from Weimar). So please change that! Thx :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.155.210 (talk) 12:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

okay, why is heavenshallburn still from munich? Look it up in de.wikipedia.org, they really come from Saalfeld. I live in Munich, i know they don't live here! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.217.66.39 (talk) 01:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

so, I changed it again...if anyone wants to "correct" it, than please check up my proofs ...

Metalcore
who keeps removing it? they come from the German Metalcore/Hardcore scene, with strong influences of melodic death metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by XTomScottx (talk • contribs) 15:41, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they are a metalcore band, you cannot refer to them as a death metal band. They say it themselves in their site:

"The German powerhouse HEAVEN SHALL BURN were one of the first groups to ultimately shatter the boundaries that stood between the death metal and hardcore genres."

This article does not make any reference to hardcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saspao (talk • contribs) 01:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

there more molodic death metal and i see no metalcore break downs (Seth4000 (talk) 15:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)) Seth4000

They are very heavily in death metal/melodic death metal, and are nothing like metalcore/deathcore. I really don't think they belong in those categories. Furthermore, they do not have the breakdowns (vis a vis Suicide Silence et al.) required to be put into the designation. They SHould be death metal, melodic death metal only. Pandawa 219 (talk) 06:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

HSB is not metal, but metalcore, Anti-racism? That's a metalcore topic, not a metal topic. Not to mention they seem to be a speaker for defeatist-German propaganda. Veganism and anti-racism? What rebels! (sarcasm) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.27.207.40 (talk) 03:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Genre
It's definetly hardcore! Please refer to the German Heaven Shall Burn Wikipedia entry: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_Shall_Burn Also note the sources, which contain a link to an interview: http://www.eternitymagazin.de/2002/05/02/heaven-shall-burn-interview/ The interview takes care of exact this problem, there are two passages dealing with that problem:

"[...]Eingefleischten Freaks seid ihr ja schon lange keine Unbekannten mehr und noch bevor ihr mit eurem aktuellen Album auch in größerem Maße in der Metal Szene für Aufregung gesorgt habt, wart ihr quasi schon seit längerem ein absoluter Geheimtip in der Hardcore Szene. Wie seht ihr euch eigentlich selbst, mehr als Metal oder mehr als Hardcore Band[...]"

"You haven't been unknown to inveterate freaks for a long time and even before you got attention in the metal scene through your current album you've already been an insider tip in the hardcore scene. How would you classify yourself, more as a metal or more of a harcore band[...]"

"[...]Tja, das mit diesen beiden Szenen ist so eine Sache. Woher die verschiedenen Ansichten der Szenen kommen, kann ich nur vermuten. Wir selbst sehen uns allerdings schon als Hardcore Band. Ich denke mal, dass der Hauptunterschied darin liegt, dass sich der Hardcore ursprünglich aus dem Punk heraus entwickelt hatte und sich eben inhaltlich mit realen Dingen beschäftigte. Wenn man sich dagegen die Heavy Metal Bands der 80er ansieht, so erkennt man den Unterschied. Da wurde eher auf Fantasy-Kram herumgeritten.[...]"

"[...]Well, it's kind of a thing with these two scenes. I can only guess what the different point of views of these scenes are founded on. When it comes to us, we see ourselves as a harcore band though. I think, the main difference is that hardcore envolved from punk and it's contents / issues are real world things. When looking at the heavy metal bands of the 80s you'll realize the difference. They expatiated on fantasy stuff[...]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.234.219.124 (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the band's personal opinion on there genre has no bearing on WP:RS. Sorry. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:26, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I won't question that. But without reading the whole discussion page I'd like to know what a reliable (US) source for definining a bands genre is. And what exactly gives that instance the authority to define a genre? It's like having a car manufacturer build a bike and having someone telling them: nope, it's a car because it is clearly inspired by wheels and powered by an engine. Somehow kinda strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.135.249.245 (talk) 19:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:RS should answer all your questions, though I'd also recommend WP:V for the difference between verifiability (i.e. what WP is concerned with) and "truth" (which I'll leave for the philosophers and theologians). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, I'll work through that material tomorrow morning.

Well someone deleted melodic death metal, I found a few sources to back it up.
 * http://www.centurymedia.com/us/single_artist.php?ID=23
 * http://allmetalresource.com/2008/04/17/review-heaven-shall-burn-iconoclast-2008/

Mogthetormentor (talk) 21:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Somebody keeps adding deathcore. While they have heavy melodic death metal and metalcore influence, they don't have any of the traits of other deathcore bands. Deathcore is a fusion of metalcore and death metal, Heaven Shall Burn don't have enough of a death metal influence. Sources such as http://allmetalresource.com/2008/04/17/review-heaven-shall-burn-iconoclast-2008/ do not cite deathcore as an influence on Heaven Shall Burn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rx512 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, there's a perfectly good reliable source here stating deathcore. People's opinions regarding genre are really not important. Also, neither allmetalresource.com and the Century Media site are not reliable sources, so cannot be used; please read the guideline. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What is written on allmusicguide is the opinion of one person who wrote it, AMG do not check their articles before letting the writer publish them. You said yourself, people's opinions regarding genre are not important. I won't change it back but it's definitely something to keep in mind. Rx512 ([[User talk:Rx512|talk] 21:16, 02 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You're slightly misinterpreting what I said. When I said "people's opinions don't matter", I was referring to Wikipedia editors. A band being classed as a particular genre in, say, a magazine, MusicMight, or Allmusic is "someone's opinion" but that is from a reliable source. It is not, as you appear to believe, possible to simply submit content to Allmusic. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 09:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Question: is there much point in listing all four that we currently have, death metal, metalcore, thrash metal and deathcore? All four, with their footnotes, makes it look a bit cluttered, and as the deathcore page says (with plenty of references), deathcore is a mix of death metal and metalcore. So would it possibly make more sense just to give thrash metal and deathcore? Just my take on it! 87.194.171.224 (talk) 09:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

They don't have the breakdowns required to be metalcore. The most accurate genre in my mind is a fusion of Black vocals, death guitars and deathcore drumming. HSB is really their own thing. Pandawa 219 (talk) 10:41, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

The genre of Heaven Shall Burn.
I think Heaven Shall Burn plays melodic death metal (or melo-death), deathcore and metalcore, neater death metal, and neater thrash metal. I've fixed it few times times and it turned back to the old way, so please make it able to change the genre at least, I'm not asking for anything more. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by AwesomeUsername555 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Least likely thing to get changed I'm afraid. Opinion is cheap; find sources. Also, read WP:GENRE WARRIOR. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Site attacked
Please delete the Homepage from HSB - its attacked reported and from Webbrowser blocked!! --Metallica9400 (talk) 22:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Okay, Problem ending. Site is now safely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.206.207.73 (talk) 14:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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