Talk:Heavy metal genres/Archive 3

Cello Metal?
never heard of it, please provide examples of bands who play Cello metal. TIA (thanks in advance). Andy_Howard (talk) 00:33, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as Cello metal. Apocalyptica have described their music as "cello rock" but it's not an official genre or anything. zubrowka 74 16:53, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * A Google search tends to agree. The article should be submitted for AfD.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 17:04, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd move the "Cello Metal" to be a subgenre of "Neo-Classical Metal". - A.W. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.204.111 (talk) 13:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I personally know of many "Cello rock/metal" bands, however I agree with 88.115.204.111 in that it's a neo-classical sub-genre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.122.19 (talk) 01:16, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

If it's unsourced and has no article then you can remove it if you want to. The genre is valid as long as it has sources. I call the big one bitey (talk) 19:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Heavy metal subgenres
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Heavy metal subgenres's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Morgenbladet": From Unblack metal:  From Antestor:  

Reference named "Erasmus": From Unblack metal: Erasmus, Horde Interview retrieved 2007-10-23 From Hellig Usvart:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Recent Changes to the Metalcore Section
Is it really necessary to name bands twice ? Is it productive to have the same artists repeated in the "proeminent", "from the 90s" and "current" phrases ? It's redundant. It serves the same purpose twice. I say we merge the three phrases. My opinion is that theses should be lumped together. zubrowka 74 16:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

-Plus, are any metalcore bands presently 'pre-eminent'? The genre has been in a slow decline in recent years.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 17:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

change
I wanted to add more info on metalcore, plus added melodic metalcore caused it's now an article on wikipedia and a confirmed genre. All my edits got sourced reliably. So I added info on melodic metalcore and its bands and more on metalcore and the original bands. I also fixed the details o n the way metalcore sounds because it only describes what melodic metalcore and modern metalcore sounds like, basically then people will think "How are earth crisis or hatebreed metalcore then"? So basically it just says ALL metalcore must sound like all that remains or trivium. Plus I added more info on alt metal since many alt metal bands like static x, mudvayne, nothingface and slipknot have sounded like pure metal. Alt metal can also be unconventional metal, but those bands soudn NOTHING like alternative rock. Just metal, and they do growls, shouts or screams so I added sources proving they do that and more on alt metal. Not all alt metal is alternative rock. I added sources So do NOT remove them like this one user did, WITHOUT an explanation. Just no reason.

Ihy34 (talk) 00:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

There's no such thing as 'just metal', unless you're talking about the genre (I.e. all the sub genres together) as a whole. At any rate, all the '-cores' should be in a separate section anyway, but that's neither here nor there in this particular argument.

But you're quite right as regards Static-X, (who I would argue are industrial metal rather than anything else, but they added solos later on.) Slipknot, Mudvayne, etc. The later two bands bands have moved away from the solo-less nu-metal (in fact, there are very few bands who were playing in a nu-metal style circa 1998-2000 who still play nu-metal, with the odd notable exception like limp bizkit. Even KoRn, the founders of this genre, have moved away from it) but regarding the bands you mentioned they started as and moved towards a more Pantera/Machine Head/Sepultura-esque groove metal style.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 17:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

@ihy34 All those bands you mentioned don't really have anything to do with alternative metal other then playing in nu metal which is a subgenre of alt metal, (as i elaborated on the alternative metal page). They're all definitely leaning more towards the nu metal/groove metal/hard rock/whatever it is sound rather then the alternative metal/post-grunge sound. The argument that they are alternative metal because they are from a nu metal background and have no hip hop elements doesn't hold up. As long as they have that groove metal/grunge fusion sound going on and have angry growled vocals then they are still nu metal. And what's the one thing that alternative metal bands like Tool, Breaking Benjamin, Chevelle and Faith No More all have in common? melodic, alternative rock/grunge influenced vocals, therefore it is a defining characteristic. I call the big one bitey (talk) 17:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

-I think the point he's trying to make is that these bands (Slipknot and Mudvayne) aren't playing nu metal anymore, which I think is a good point: one of the other defining characteristics of nu-metal is the lack of solos (or extremely short melodic 'interludes'), as well as extremely simple riffs and funk basslines-if you listen to the first three Slipknot albums, there isn't a single solo (there's also a few fair bits of hip-hop elements on the first album -Spit It Out being an obvious example.), and starting with 'the Subliminal Verses', the riffs become more complex. On 'All Hope Is Gone', they incorporated solos.

The 'alternative rock/grunge influenced vocals' thing can also be said for groove metal too. Machine Head used to state in interviews that they were influenced by bands like Alice In Chains and Soundgarden (Pantera also stated in interviews that they appreciated both bands), particularly in the vocal department. Nu Metal wasn't simply a 'fusion' of groove metal and grunge because plenty of groove metal bands were influenced by grunge and alt. rock bands too. (That is, before the whole alt. rock movement got trendy and Pantera started writing entire albums about how much they hated it, that is.)

There are plenty of bands that didn't start out as nu metal but drifted into that sound, only to distance themselves from it later on. Machine Head were groove metal on their first two albums, 'Burn My Eyes' and 'The More Things Change', they were straight-up, Pantera-worship groove metal-solos, more complex-but 'groovy' (duh) riffs, shouted vocals, etc. On 'the Burning Red', they got rid of the solos, simplified the riffing (and also introduced rapping to their sound), something that was continued on 'Supercharger', but with 'Through The Ashes Of Empires', and then 'The Blackening', and 'The Locust'; they returned to their old style. A similar thing happened with Soulfly-they were certainly nu-metal (indeed, painfully so) on their s/t and 'Primitive', but after 'Prophecy'; they began to distance themselves from that scene and introduced a lot of the groove metal and death metal elements (as well as solos and more complicated riffing) so common to Max Cavalera's old band, Sepultura. Fear Factory were a death-metal influenced industrial metal band to start with, but flirted with nu-metal on 'Digimortal', but have since returned to their original industrial metal sound, and there are many more bands that have done this. Whilst it is certainly true that these bands were nu metal, none of these bands are nu-metal any longer, and it would be erroneous in the extreme to describe them as such (is there even a single trace of nu-metal in the sound Machine Head now have? No, songs like 'Aesthetics of Hate' and 'Enter The Locust' are dictionary definitions of groove metal), and likewise; neither are Slipknot or Mudvayne. In fact; I would challenge you to name ten bands that still play nu-metal. The scene is pretty much dead.

As regards Static-X, the fact they had no solos until 'Cult of Static' doesn't really matter because they were always a Ministry-worshipping industrial metal band anyway; and the lack of solos does define whether a band is industrial metal or not, as the subgenre is pretty much evenly split between those bands without solos (Godflesh, Pitchshifter's first album and EP, early Ministry, the Berzerker, Apollyon Sun, as well as Fear Factory, who until the last two albums had not had a single song with a solo on it) and those that do (Ministry from 'Psalm 69' onwards, Nailbomb, amongst others)-it is the prescence of industrial/electronic elements, drum machines and samplers that defines that subgenre, which Static-X has always had in abundance. So they were never nu-metal in the first place, despite being often lumped in with that scene.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 18:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I do think that slipknot's subliminal verses was alt metal, they only were nu metal with their first 2 albums, however duality is nu metal, the other songs aren't. Static-X are industrial metal, Mudvayne I don't consider nu metal but I do think that even though I'm not sure if sepultura are alt metal, they do sound really aggressive. In this moment now are alt metal and they're just aggressive. OTEP are usually nu metal but if you look at ghostflowers, buried alive or rise rebel resist they sound alt metal but they sound very metal than alt rock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihy34 (talk • contribs) 00:19, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Well Sepultura sort of are alternative metal despite having no alternative rock/grunge influence, since they incorporate tribal elements and other experimental sounds which means it's hard to put them into a specific metal genre, which means they fit perfectly into alt metal since alternative metal is sometimes defined as a genre for band's which have metal influence but don't fit into one genre. Same goes for Soulfly. I've only heard Slipknot's first album, but from what i heard it sounded pretty nu metal/groove metal to me, rather then alternative metal/grunge/experimental like. I call the big one bitey (talk) 00:59, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Heavy metal subgenres
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Heavy metal subgenres's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "wbm":<ul> <li>From Extreme metal: Wolf-Rüdiger Mühlmann: War Black Metal: Die Extremsten der Extremen. Was bleibt, ist Schutt und Asche. In: Rock Hard, no. 279, p. 71-73.</li> <li>From Brazilian thrash metal: Wolf-Rüdiger Mühlmann: War Black Metal: Die Extremsten der Extremen. Was bleibt, ist Schutt und Asche. In: Rock Hard, no. 279, pp. 71-73.</li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:01, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

content
I was almost excited to see there is an article for this list but upon getting to the article I was very disappointed, it's seems too less of a list and far too much in depth material about each style. maybe it's just me but I thought a much more basic simple template/table would have worked a hell of a lot better!?Yellowxander (talk) 23:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

What The Heck?
--72.251.108.164 (talk) 11:18, 19 December 2013 (UTC)  Limp bizkit has always been  called a Nu Metal band. They've never been reconized as a real Funk Metal band. Skillet is considered to be one of the most popular Christian Metal bands of today, add them. Rob Zombie is and never was Alternative Metal, where did you even get that from? And Limp Bizkit isn't real Rap Metal either. They use turntables. Fix it and keep it fixed please.--72.251.108.164 (talk) 11:18, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Cello Metal?!
Do we need a subgenre cause a bunch of finnish guys covers metal songs on cellos?! I'm not sure about that. Does anyone remember german metal band "Die Schweisser"? They had a guy playing a saxophone. Do we need Sax Meta thenl? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong here. I respect and like Apocalyptica; I just ask, if what they do justifies a new genre.


 * If you want to expunge cello metal probably the thing to do is start a WP:AfD at Cello rock. Alternatively, you could start a discussion about whether this exists but is not a genre as such. There do not appear to be any sources that indicate it exists at the moment.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 12:17, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Heavy metal subgenres
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Heavy metal subgenres's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ScreamoAM":<ul> <li>From Emo: Explore style: Screamo at AllMusic Music Guide</li> <li>From Screamo: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:26, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

This is a Sub-Genre page
Im not into Crust or some of the other sub-genres but if its mixed with Metal and has references and the Articles also state they are Mixed with any form of Metal they belong here. How are some people removing this material like its not "metal". No kidding its a Sub-Genre of Metal. Its not anyones Personal Choice what stays or not. It has references it has consensus it stays. Until someone proves they are Not Related to Metal.CombatMarshmallow (talk) 01:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 20 June 2016
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 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Event horizon51  (talk) 14:38, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Heavy metal subgenres → Heavy metal genres – to bring the article into line with similar articles on subgenres such as Reggae genres, List of hip hop genres, List of country genres, List of blues genres, List of electronic music genres, List of jazz genres, or List of trance genres. The fact that these are subgenres is obvious. If renamed, we can subsequently bring into line with the other subcategories within. -- PanchoS (talk) 16:22, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency with other articles.  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )   07:37, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Support for the reasons given by the proposer.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 14:39, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Pirate metal
Yo bro what about pirate metal m8 Whitejamesindustries (talk) 17:41, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Care to explain? Karst (talk) 18:24, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * If you want to know where it is listed, look under "folk metal."-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 18:25, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Adding a subgenre of Industrial Metal
Cyber metal should be added to the list — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.21.58 (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Seconded 208.102.180.134 (talk) 22:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Bluethrash metal???
Now i don't think im qualified to go around just deleting stuff, but i googled "bluethrash metal" and i found nothing about it besides on this page. 208.102.180.134 (talk) 22:39, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

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This is a bad list
This list of subgenres is incomplete. It completly omits genres such as southern metal and electrogrind, who are mentioned in Wikipedia (not to mention others). It also omits subgenres such as sleaze metal, buts does not omit genres such as space metal. This list is also very messy when it comes to it’s sections. Personally, I’ve counted over 80 subgenres of heavy metal, and though I know it’s original research, they’re true genres. This list omits: sleaze metal, southern metal, light metal, industrial black metal, industrial thrash metal, industrial death metal, blackened crust, electrogrind, progressive black metal, technical thrash metal, and others. It also includes movements and umbrella terms as subgenres (such as Neue Deutsche Härte, teutonic thrash metal, and extreme metal). I know I will probably never get answered, but I just wanted to voice my concerns. SML - Growl n’ Screetch   21:08, 1 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Have you tried to add any of those subgenres to the list yourself? Others might object, but if you added one or two at a time, perhaps with an explanation on this Talk page, you will probably succeed in adding at least some of the subgenres you mention.  - Mark D Worthen PsyD   (talk)  20:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

It wouldn’t get axcepted, I avoid the risk. ~SML  TP   23:30, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Adding other subgenres
There are a lot of genres mentioned in Wikipedia, not all of them are sourced, but we should add the ones that are. I’m proposing to add (note all of the subgenres are in Wikipedia, and are referenced) blackened crust, electrogrind, crustgrind, ambient black metal, black ‘n’ roll, slam death metal, industrial black metal, symphonic death metal, progressive metalcore, war metal, and others I haven’t yet mentioned. ~SML •  TP   21:51, 18 July 2018 (UTC)