Talk:Heckler & Koch HK21

G8
To whoever is stating that the G-8 is the HK-21E in German service please stop. According to written sources the G-8 is an updated Heckler & Koch HK11 brought up to HK-21E standards and marketed to security forces.Paulwharton 02:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Swedish users?
The HK21 was evaluated by the Swedish armed forces, but not accepted. There are no Swedish users of this weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.237.216.122 (talk) 08:54, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * None of the HK model machineguns have been used by the Swedish armed forces. The source listed as supporting this claim was published full of errors and should not be regarded as reliable. Sweden should be removed from the Users list.

81.228.131.162 (talk) 03:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Finland
According to Small Arms Review (on Remtek), Finland uses or has used the HK21. None of the sources you listed explicitly say the HK21 was not used by Finland, they simply don't mention it. That is not sufficient grounds to remove sourced content. Unless you can cite a source explicitly saying the HK21 was not used by Finland, leave the text and source intact. ROG5728 (talk) 19:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)TO
 * Finnish Defence Forces has never used HK21. First and only 7,62 NATO caliber LMG which FDF uses is MG3. Purden of proof is not on those who say HK21 not used, but for those who claim otherwise. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability --91.153.26.148 (talk) 07:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Small Arms Review is an exceptional source, and your unsourced claims are not suitable evidence to the contrary. ROG5728 (talk) 07:13, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * No it is not and FDF doesnt use or has ever used this weapon. Proof of burden is NOT on this side. --91.153.26.148 (talk) 07:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

--91.153.26.148 (talk) 08:55, 5 March 2011 (UTC) A reliable source has already been cited for the information, so yes, the burden of proof is on you at this point. ROG5728 (talk) 07:31, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I dont know what is problem with you, but this weapon is not or has never been used by Finnish army. So you are delivering completely false information. --91.153.26.148 (talk) 07:50, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, see WP:OR. Original research is not accepted on Wikipedia. Content backed by a reliable source cannot be removed based on an editor's original research. ROG5728 (talk) 07:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * So expline how to hell do I proof that FDF DONT use, or has never used something? Anyone can CLAIM whatever they wish, and you say that I have to proof that they are wrong? --91.153.26.148 (talk) 08:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

One way to discredit the current source would be to demonstrate a reliable external source that chronologically lists all machine guns that have been used by Finland. However, it would have to be clearly indicated, in the source, that all of the machine guns are being listed (both past and present) and not just the current ones. If you find such a source, go ahead and post it here for consideration. Keep in mind that blogs/forums and similar anonymous sources are not accepted on Wikipedia. ROG5728 (talk) 09:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Finnish army doesnt use this weapon and no mather what someones claim, Finnish army does not use, nor has ever used this weapon. --91.153.26.148 (talk) 08:55, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, see WP:OR. Original research is not accepted on Wikipedia. Content backed by a reliable source cannot be removed based on an editor's original research. ROG5728 (talk) 09:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The fact is that FDF dont use, nor has ever used this weapon. If some uninformed source claims otherwise, that doesnt make it truth. Claimer should show some proof of his claim. Otherwise I can claim to be President of the USA or God or whatever,and you have to proof that Im not. --91.153.26.148 (talk) 09:48, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There's a tag for potentially unreliable sources, I think it was for statements in general and  for sources. Use that for marking the statement as possibly false instead of removing it until there's consensus. 212.68.15.66 (talk) 06:25, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Finland DOES NOT use the HK21. Other than a few dozen MG3s supplied as components of the Leopard 2 tanks and NH90 helicopters purchased from Germany---retained because it would have been very expensive to develop and manufacture suitable mounting and gun-laying systems to allow the use of the standard Soviet PKT machine gun used in most Finnish armored vehicles---Finland's military does not use any 7.62mm NATO machineguns. It has been Finnish policy, from the time of the Finnish war of independence up to the present day, to use Russian/Soviet standard weapons in order to make use of captured weapons and ammunition. Not a single Finnish source supports this alleged Finnish use of the HK21.

Further, the "source" cited does not meet Wikipedia's standards of reliability. This so-called source is a website posting, without references, made by one Stephen Gearinger. Mr Gearinger is not recognized as an authority on small arms, Finnish or otherwise. He is not an official spokesman for the Finnish Defence Forces, Heckler & Koch, GMBH, nor for that matter, any armed service or small arms manufacturing concern. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.221.121 (talk) 21:44, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

HK11, HK13, HK23 should be mentioned
There are references to the HK11, HK13 and HK23 but no mention is made that they are distinct weapons; the HK21E and HK23E however used the same receiver. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.96.227.157 (talk) 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

HK25
The "HK25" was vaporware. Heckler & Koch never went beyond proposing it as a .50 BMG-scaled version of the HK21 in their 1965 catalog. No such .50 BMG guns were ever produced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.221.121 (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

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