Talk:Heckler & Koch Mark 23/Archive 1

Should we add this?.
I've seen articles describing weapons and their use on fictional/popular culture context. Should we add a reference to Metal Gear Solid, since the SOCOM (with supressor and laser aiming module) is always featured in promotional artwork and in the game itself?--200.54.64.194 20:29, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It used to be there, but someone took the 'decision' to remove it. I do agree that fictional references should be there, such as MGS, Couterstrike, Rainbow Six, perhaps even movies like Banlieue 13 or Tears of the Sun. Chronos 23:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Same Description Found on External Website.
I'm seeing alot of similarities between this article and this webpages description of the Mark 23 in fact most of the article is word for word fitting the description on that page. http://www.thegunsource.com/shopping_viewproduct.aspx?idproduct=42616 --Lupac 03:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Yep, it's a copyvio of |the manufacturer's page. Listing as such. &mdash;rebug (talk) 06:26, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there is a reason why there should be seperate pages. The reason is that the Mk.23 mod.0 is the military version of the handgun. The Mark 23 is a civilian model with a 10 round magazine.  The ten round magazine is used with the civilian Mark 23 so the handgun complies with U.S. laws.  The military and civilian handguns should therefore be on seperate pages.
 * You are mistaken. --Haizum   μολὼν λαβέ 09:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge
This should be merged but the other title should be kept because it is more proper. --Shell 01:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Merge. No 10 round vs. 12 round magazine warrants separate articles. Probably under name including manufacturer, not necessarily with "Mod 0" unless there is good reason for it. Gene Nygaard 18:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The Mark 23 is the civilian version of the MK23. The Mark 23 has different slide engravings (It says "Mark 23" rather than the USSOCOM markings) and a slightly looser chamber (to comply with SAAMI .45ACP specifications). The chamber's size difference is about .0001" or so. Since the expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban, 12 round magazines are again available.  The civilian model is also now available with desert tan, grey, and olive green frames (I think those are the right colors).  Riddlefox 19:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Correction, the Mark 23 is only offered in Desert Tan. Some of the other HK USPs (the Mark 23's little brothers) are offered in the other colors. Also, I purchased a brand new Mark 23 28 Jan 2006 and received two 12 round mags (I'm in TX). California is one of two states that doesn't allow 12 roung mags for civilian purchase. Some other notes: the list MSRP is about US $2400 for the Mark 23, though street prices     ignificantly lower. Its rumored that the guns are going out of production (they were limited runs to begin with) likely due to the difficulty in making the maritime coating which prevents corrosion, and their criticism about their size (the HK USP .45 Tacticle was introduced as a happy medium between the large Mark 23 and the technically inferior USP). The information above regarding the SOCOM version having a tighter bore is rumor/conjecture (unconfirmed) but likely true, becuase the military doesn't have to worry about the slightly different sized ammunition from competing ammo manufacturers. Personally, I believe these two pages should be merged and the differences noted. Both versions of the pistol share the same amazing traits, they only carry distinct markings and a supposedly different barrel (thought HK maintains that there is no difference).


 * Correction, the Mark 23 is only offered in Desert Tan.
 * Wrong. --Haizum   μολὼν λαβέ 09:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
Much of the information in the first section is repeated in the second section. This is obviously unnecessary. Some guy 02:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

They SHOULD be separate
The bulk of information should be in the Mk23Mod0 Article -- as that is the USN Offensive Handgun Weapon System The Mark 23 is the civilian 10rd (12? -- should be in the article) clone of the Mk23 pistol. -TehLlama


 * This debate about 10/12 round might be misleading a few people. There is absolutely no difference in the pistol itself, both the military and civilian versions will take both 10 and 12 round mags. For quite some time, HK packaged 10rd mags with the civi version, but they are now being sold with 12 rd mags. Also, I don't think "clone" is a good choice of words, because there is still no validated evidence that the civi version is any different from the Mk23Mod0 (other than markings).


 * There is one difference: The Mk23Mod0 has right-hand threads, while the Mk23 has left-hand threads.


 * Actually, the Mk23Mod0 and and Mark 23 are both right-hand threads. The USP Tactical is a left-hand thread. --Chronos 01:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

USP article
Seeing as the USP and the Mk. 23 are 'brothers', it seems that some effort should be made to make the information in their respective articles similar. There's a lot of very detailed information in the USP article and while it obviously shouldn't be copied and pasted into this one, i think the similarities have to be proven and explained. As for the Military/Civilian version dispute, they're almost exactly the same gun and any differences are miniscule.


 * Family members, but not brothers. --Haizum   μολὼν λαβέ 09:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Quotes section
I removed the "Quotes" section because it's just a snippet of H&K advertising, and doesn't add new info. Besides, that exact same quote is available in the first External Link.

I'd also like to remove the "Operation" block (again) because 1. the Safety section is just duplicate info found earlier in the article and 2. the Unloading section lists a generic procedure that should be familiar to anyone who's ever fired a slide-action pistol (remove mag, check chamber, decock). That info is not specifically relevant to this gun, and we already have separate pages for this sort of thing.

I'm posting this because the last time I made those changes, they were reverted without explanation. Thoughts? - Tronno ( t | c ) 16:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)