Talk:Helio (wireless carrier)/Archive 1

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Don't their phones compete with other sprint phones? CDMA is just so much better then GSM for content, I would say Helio is much more advanced then Cingular. Mathiastck 17:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The wikipedia needs to talk about whether Helio is BREW or J2ME, and talk about the graphics specs of the handsets. Mathiastck 17:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * While the specs are interesting, wouldn't that be overkill? 68.77.250.144 02:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The article claims these handset have advanced features, but doesn't detail them at all. It doesn't have to read like a technical spec but it should back up said claim.  Mathiastck 19:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The "advanced" features are mostly the same things that cheaper devices have, but not as well implemented--like MP3/AAC and MPEG4 players, a real HTML web browser, etc. The only really unique feature is the GPS-enabled Google Maps. --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That statement was actually an advertising claim by the company itself. Draxiom 04:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Try not calling it a phone, that makes it sound more advanced. When you say "phone", people get the idea that it is a thing that you talk on. Helio's devices have phone service, MP3 player, digital camera, superior mobile gaming, myspace, the hero packs a co-processor chip for superior graphics and sound, and the new drift even has GPS, arial photos via Google Maps, and Buddy Beacon. To me, it doesn't make sense to call it a phone. Whammy 17:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Or, you could call it a "device" like they do. I've heard from an employee that they aren't allowed to call them "phones."  TBH though, other than "superior" mobile gaming and a myspace app, the rest of it is pretty standard fare on the so-called "smart phones"


 * Sales support and sales do everything they can to avoid calling it a "phone," although they're not entirely sure what to call it. I tried to use the word "bot," which appears on the website, but they had no idea what I meant, so we had an awkward conversation....


 * But later, when I called for tech support, they called it a phone repeatedly. As in, "It sounds like you're trying to do a lot with your phone. Most people don't do that much with a phone."


 * Oh, and the MySpace app doesn't actually exist, so if that's a reason to not call the Drift a phone, well, then I guess it's a phone. --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's J2ME, MIDP-2. But it doesn't matter, because you can't install third-party software, and even if someone wanted to develop licensed software for it, they've disabled access to the camera, GPS, SMS, etc. from the SDK. --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Print Ads
There's a print ad for Helio on front fold of the AUG/SEP 2006 Edition of Giant. Reading the print copy, I believe they're trying very hard to appear hip and "myspacy," if that's even a word. Boost being for the Urban Demographic, and Helio is for the MySpace Generation now? 68.77.250.144 02:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't forget AMP'D being for the Hip Hop demo. Also, the commercials for Helio are crap and repetitive. How is it not a phone, and who cares about Jinh Woo? Rockhound 20:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * On the slogan and ads, you're going way too critical on this, Rockhound. The advertisements are meant to imply that their phones and technology are top of the line and ahead of everything else on the market. Also we need a source confirming what the actual slogan of Helio is, but as of now it is their ad slogan, which was also misquoted more than once in the history of the page. Draxiom 04:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

What else will we call it if not a phone! It is by definition a phone! AlexHillan 02:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Launched?
Helio is now launched right? The article should probably then stop talking about a future launch. Mathiastck 20:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
As stated above, and with some additions, this article reads like an advertisement. Any thoughts? Alex43223Talk 03:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If it reads like an advertisement, the tag is more appropriate than  . I have tagged it accordingly. It shouldn't be hard to re-word the hype and casual phrasing, however. I don't have the time right at this moment though. =Axlq 05:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't Call It A Phone!
Okay everybody, if you want to call it a phone, do whatever you want, but don't vandalize the article because of your own ignorance! The company clearly states "Don't Call Us A Phone Company, Don't Call It A Phone". Respect the wishes of the company and the stand of most customers of Helio (like myself). If Helio says they're not phones, then "phone" can't appear on the article except where appropriate (and this does not include where it says "device"). Whammy 23:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * By definition, they are phones. Wikipedia is not a marketing tool.Yakwhacker 03:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I secong that idea, that they are in fact, phones. Regardless of marketing gimmecks. However, I do think that that moniker or commercials is worthy of mentioning in the article. SHould someone look into such? 216.250.6.26 01:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The Helio rep that I spoke to said that "most wireless carriers have phones with cool features, but with us, its cool features with a phone somewhere in there". Another thing, Helio is the only wireless carrier to offer these models, therefore, don't they get to brand them whatever they want? If Helio calls it a device, then its a device. I think Helios relate more to PDAs than to phones (kinda like a Sidekick or Blackberry), the only thing that would make people consider it a phone is the fact that it posesses a number pad instead of a QWERTY (thus making it more compact). Just because it makes calls, doesn't make it a phone! I can make calls with my powerbook, does that mean that my Apple Powerbook is a phone? (Hint: It's a computer) Whammy 03:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

What happens if somebody catches you on a Helio and they yell at you, "GET OFF THE PHONE!"...instant comeback, "IT'S NOT A PHONE, YOU PANCAKE EATER! IT'S A HELIO!". They're not phones, no matter how much you all want them to be. 66.102.197.32 03:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

If I had a coffee maker that went on the internet and also played mp3s, I wouldn't call it a "Braun" I'd call it a coffee maker. Get over it, Helios are phones, PHONES I TELL YA!!!

regardless of whatever features it has its still part phone, instead of people saying its not a phone, only what it is should mentioned --Ditre 05:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

People seem very willing to eat up marketing gimmicks like they are candy. The only unique feature it has is the myspace thing. Many much more advanced devices exist in the Asian market that are still referred to as phones. I recently saw a pretty cheap Japanese phone that had more features than any device available in the US.--Shadowdrak 00:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I've started hearing ads for Helio calling it an "iPhone killer"... therefore it must be a phone.

Helio
I love the phones....You all just need to stop being so negative. Besides, why complain about a less bias argument or information when all your doing is fighting it. Hypocrates. And also, why were you on here looking at the Helio info, if you didnt like them to begin with. Get lives.


 * I don't think anyone here is Hypocrates. I demand that you stop insinuating that Wikipedians are ancient Greek physicians.--Shadowdrak 00:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

info not ad copy
Wikipedia - any reference source - derives its credibility from objectivity. Using ad copy doesn't meet this requirement. Should not be permitted. The place for marketing is a corporate website, not a reference source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adampunter (talk • contribs) 16:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

It isn't an ad copy, this article is simply complying with the wishes of the company, just like how the help desk agents aren't allowed to call them "phones", the wikipedia article shouldn't either. Helio's devices in many aspects are more advanced than the phones or devices offered by other phone companies and MVNOs in the USA mobile market. Calling it a "phone" just implies that it is used for voice usage, and does not refer to the other features provides on the devices. Plus. an MVNO technically isn't a phone company, as an MVNO is just a company that sells their phones or devices that connect to the company via one or more phone companies. Whammy 17:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, this article already provides extensive information about the company. Calling it a "phone" won't make the article any better, it will just anger the avid Helio users. Why do people even care so much about calling it a "phone" instead of a device, just leave it as the company wants it and get a life. Whammy 17:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not here to comply with Helio's wishes, Wikipedia is here to provide information to the public, regardless of whether any "avid Helio users" are 'angered'. Furthermore, I've yet to see anyone except yourself and another anonymous poster say it's anything but a phone. You've had your say, now shut up and let other users make their point. 164.58.156.171 21:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Seriously though, am I the only one here that thinks that a device that features more than phone functions shouldn't be called a phone? I know that its hard to even think of, with the way current wireless providers have been marketing their products. But seriously, think of all the features that many of the "phones" today have in addition to making calls, many have MP3 players, some have excellent quality cameras, some even comparable to digital cameras, some have QWERTYs instead of number pads, and still people call them phones. Its funny though, you never ever hear anybody call an iPod or a Sansa an MP3 player, you don't usually hear people call a Nikon a camera, there are countless other circumstances where you hear people call something by its brand or service name, but then whenever people call Helio's handsets "Helios" or "Devices" people are instantly crazy. The marketing today in the wireless industry has made it a standard that anything making calls is a "phone", however, Helio wants to go above and beyond the norms of the wireless industry. I understand that they're off to a sorta rough start, but its only because people disagree with their vision of wireless devices that go above and beyond what's expected of "phones". You have the Sidekicks, Chocolates, Blackberrys, and Sony Ericsson products, they've all been marketed as phones, but what if they weren't? Once they started adding MP3 players, High Resolution Camera, Bluetooth, Games, GPS, Internet Access, etc. and yet they still continued branding them as phones...but why? Imagine for a moment if they didn't brand them in that manner, the wireless industry would be totally different. Maybe thats part of the reason why the American wireless industry is so far behind the rest of the world. Now, what if Helio had decided to stick with their original slogan "Innovate or Die" instead of going with "Don't Call Us A Phone Company, Don't Call It A Phone"? So many people hate Helio and think its a terrible service just because they say "Don't Call It A Phone". Would people have liked Helio better if it would have been branded as a phone just like all the other wireless products out there? Helio wants to stick out in the wireless industry, and it will get better if you let it and stop criticizing it and degrading it. I understand that Wikipedia is not a marketing tool, but I disagree with "Wikipedia is not here to comply with Helio's wishes". If you're going to provide information about their service, provide the RIGHT information, the CORRECT information. I hope that I am starting to make some kind of an impact, I will shut up when I get my point across, which it doesn't seem like it has been. Whammy 03:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No, people don't hate Helio becaose of their slogan. People hate Helio because their features don't work, their platform is closed (you can't install third-party software, or use your own music as ringtones or answer rings--even though they explicitly advertise this), and their customer service is, well, Earthlink standard. Maybe that's just why I hate them, but I doubt I'm the only one. --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I have been tagged as a 'vandal' several times for editing the article to the correct form. Despite Helio's PR team's wishes, their 'devices' all are sold under the same system as every other cellular [b]phone[/b] company. Their primary purpose is to talk, on their network. Their secondary functions are secondary, and calling the phones 'devices' serves only to muddy the issue and to attempt to keep the article (which is already an uncited PR-speak mess) as a mouthpiece for Helio. An encyclopedia would properly mention Helio's ad campaign, which has already been done, but their 'devices' are still phones, and as far as I am concerned, are to be called as such. 24.227.200.138 00:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

No, their primary purpose is not to talk. Nevertheless, it is certainly A purpose but not THE purpose. According to the numerous individuals I spoke with at the customer service, they all seem to agree that it was designed to be for SMS/MMS/Data first and voice second. First hand accounts are more accurate than user opinions. Your edits are not considered 'correct'.Whammy 03:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The title bar of Helio's own web site reads "Helio | Heat & Drift cell phones..." Yup, Helio themselves call their "devices" CELL PHONES. Hopefully that can put an end to this insipid "debate." 70.170.51.235 08:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The only reason thats there is so that if someone puts a seach into google saying "cell phone" somebody will come across Helio.Whammy 20:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds much like a Smartphone to me. 127.0.0.1 18:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The Nokia N95, which is a more advanced smartphone/mediaphone/cameraphone than the Drift in every way, is a phone. So what exactly makes the Drift not a phone? Especially since most of the advanced, non-phone features don't actually work.... --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Just FYI, Nokia markets its N series as multimedia computers and not phones. ;) Whammy 00:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't make them any less of a phone first. Notice the phone suffix on each of it's descriptions. Oh, and "Markets" is the key word in your phrase, as you can market a chicken as a duck and it'll still be a chicken. TheMasterEmerald 07:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the slogan was not a very good marketing campaign since no one knew exactly "what" they were. but as for whether it is a phone or not, it still technically is despite any features they have, so calling it a phone really doesnt pose any problems. But, at the same time calling it a device wouldnt change anything either. But, if you were to classify it as a "device", whatever that may mean, you would have to dispute the neutrality of nearly all cell phone companies because they are all technically devices. So, in my opinion, it shoud stay as phone, but it shouldnt be classified as a cell phone company because it technically isnt. Does that satisfy the both of you?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.187.158 (talk) 23:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"market itself to the pedophile demographic,intend to carve out a niche for themselves with child-loving consumers??
Did anybody even read this part? What is going on here? Pedophile demographic/child-loving consumers???? Any thoughts? This MUST be a mistake, right? Or the person who wrote it is messing with everybody and using slander because they hate Helio.

"market itself to the pedophile demographic, promoting itself using the latest in cutting-edge handset technology. They plan to avoid taking on the major US wireless carriers directly, and instead they intend to carve out a niche for themselves with child-loving consumers." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.103.150.1 (talk) 21:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

I reverted the pedophile comments back to their actual target demographic, etc. Pretty funny stuff though. - Doc
 * That is a very funny spin indeed.

What?
I don't see how this article is not neutral! AlexHillan 22:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a dumb debate over whether or not it is appropriate to call a Helio-device a phone in this article.--Shadowdrak 00:34, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand this dumb debate. I know that in the ads says "Don't call it a phone" but it is obviously a phone. Besides, how does that affect the neutrality? I think that the tag should be deleted. AlexHillan 02:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking at it again, I think some people feel it reads too much like an advertisement for Helio. The "phone" thing being one aspect of this issue.--Shadowdrak 17:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Biased Web Address Deletions
I added 2 web addresses about Kickflip on this page. Someone has deleted them. I will add them again. If someone has a legit reason for deleting them other than that they are a member of the company could they please state their reasons here. It is not my fault that at the moment Helio only has 33% of the subscriptions needed to cover its operating costs.

I am a customer, not an employee. I deleted them because they're not "official" links, as I have seen them deleted from this article before. However, I won't delete them again. Whammy 03:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC) Yes but surely independant company reviews of products are useful. Kickflip was widely complained about in the mobile telecoms industry. Someone could have just said "Helio lauched 2 phones/terminals, one, Kickflip, had many problems etc...etc...", but to say something like this is useless without the actual references/quotes. For Wikipedia to be neutral, negative and positives should be backed up with valid references. Otherwise we could just say "Kickflip was shit- nuff said".

Don't you think this article is semi biased? I mean "Helio is committed to providing the most advanced handsets available for sale in the US market" That quote seems directly from the company itself.

Yes it most definetly is. These phones are anything but advanced when compared to what's in the market now.


 * I dunno, for the past couple years I've been trying to find a phone that provides a decent implementation of the combination of features that Helio appears to have, but none of them do so. The features exist, but they're all crappy.  Phones in Korea and elsewhere certainly have them, but they're definitely not readily "available for sale in the US market." Yishan 01:14, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Appears" is the key word. I just got a Drift, and while the features exist, they're crappy. (Actually, this isn't true; some of the features don't even exist, like the heavily-advertised Helio MySpace Mobile.) The implementation is far worse than on competing, cheaper phones. They've done everything they can to make the phone look impressive at first glance, without any effort to making it actually usable. --76.200.100.179 04:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

This definitely sounds like ad copy.. I came here to find info on what the features of their phones are and it sounds completely biased. Was the original draft of this page written by the company?

Removal of links explained
I removed the following links...

*Helio Mag *Heliocity - User Community *FinaWireless.com - Authorized Reseller *Helio Ocean

... as each of these was a violation of the external links policy. Helio Mag and Heliocity are community / discussion group links which are discouraged. Fina and MobiJunkie are webstores and are strongly prohibited. - Davandron | Talk 04:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Settled?
So, are we all settled on this then? That Helio's phones should be labeled in this article as such and not as Helio's PR campaign wants them to be labeled otherwise? TheMasterEmerald 07:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

No its not settled! Its interesting that lots of other company's articles say device and nobody cares, but on here it days device and everyone says "NO! THEY'RE PHONES!", leave it be, the article is good as it is! Whammy 19:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Difference in case being that the other pages also refer to their phones as both phones and devices, and that the company's wishes are not transferred onto the Wikipedia page. Wikipedia is here to provide information, not be a corporate stooge. --TheMasterEmerald 06:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

HΞLIO?
Is it worth noting that Helio is sometimes sylized as "HΞLIO" to match the company's logo? ·:RedAugust 07:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I really dont think it is since you're probably the only one to see it


 * Only one to see it? What does that mean? Can your computer not display the Greek alphabet? ·:RedAugust 19:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

SK Telecom Investment
I added some information under Company Progression about the SK Telecom investment and cited it as a subscript, but I cannot figure out how to place it under references. If someone could fix this for me or reply here and tell me how to do it, I would be grateful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.13.52.152 (talk) 16:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Heliologo.svg
Image:Heliologo.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)