Talk:Hell in a Cell/Archive 1

Foley's fall through the cage
This spot was certainly not scripted. On his recent DVD he says 'the cage ripping and giving way was a complete suprise to both of us'. In his 2nd book, he states that the chokeslam itself was planned, but nobody expected the roof to give way. He also says it nearly ended his career. And furthermore, just look at the damage it did! I know Foley is nuts, but I don't think even he would agree to doing that spot, especially just a few minutes after going off the cage. He repeated it at NWO 2000, but that was into a softer ring which was rigged to collapse, and was therefore far less dangerous.

Thoughts?


 * I've never read anywhere that the Hell in a Cell fall was scripted, and the explanations given in this article about why it might have been can all be explained. Unless there's a source to back up this speculation, it should be pulled from the article. Bcarlson33 21:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's worth mentioning, as Wikipedia clearly states, "What happened next was neither expected or even anticipated by Calaway or Foley." Saying that some debate what the really sequence of events was is alright, as long as it mentions it, but doesn't subscribe to it. Helltopay27 05:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, why would it be scripted. As if Foley's going to say "Hey Mark, once youve thrown me off the cell, I really dont think i'll be battered enough, so why don't you put me through it too." I mean come on, have some common sense. K-man-1 17:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not up to us to decide whether it was a spot or not. We just report what others have said. If he claims that it was a legitimate accident, then thats what gets put in the article. If a well-known personality or columnist has questioned this, then we can make a note of it. -- Scorpion 18:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirect?
Why is the article "Hell in the Cell" now? I've NEVER heard it referred to as that.


 * I have, but still, you're right. It should be "Hell in a Cell". They call it "Hell in the Cell" when they specifically mention the cell being used in the match (usually when the match is taking place.


 * Vince accidentally (?) called it "Hell in the Cell" (instead of "a Cell") when he told DX that they'd be in one at Unforgiven this year. Oh well. Helltopay27 05:03, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * When Taker challanged/self booked Hell in a Cell 13 he said "Hell in the Cell" too, while JR at Unforgiven 06 said "It is called Hell in a Cell" so maybe the WWE feel the terms are interchangable.Night Bringer 19:18, 17 Febuary 2007 (GMT +10)

The new style of "Hell in a Cell"
I feel that the 30-foot tall Cell used in the first ever Handicap "Hell in a Cell" match between Vince&Shane McMahon and the Extreme Giant the Big Show versus Degeneration-X, Triple H and Shawn Michaels looked absolutely ridiculous.

It was obvious from the beginning that no action would be conducted atop the infamous structure because a fall from that height would probably kill whichever competitor was involved.

I also feel that "Hell in the Cell" matches should only be used after long feuds; for example HBK and HHH or McMahons and DX, because it is a match which should not be entered into lightly.

One final point on "Hell in the Cell" matches; I feel that the original ones involving Mankind, HHH, Undertaker,ect. were much more exciting and I wish that these matches could revert to their old quality and appeal.


 * Hasn't Shane jumped off the TitanTron before? That's taller than the new Hell in a Cell, right?


 * And even so, all of the Foley-esque Hell in a Cell bumps really almost defeat the purpose of the cell, in that once you're inside, you can't escape and there is no place to run or hide.

yes that is the point, but it adds something else that the "sports entertainers" can use to their advantage like TAKER v FOLEY. And anyway there is steel cage matches for the nowhere to run part. THE CELL is meant to be used to settle big feuds(see above), so it doesn't defeat the purpose of THE CELL.

1: Please sign your comments people. 2 To whoever started this discussion the new Cell was (I think most people would agree) created because it was almost impossible to execute airal moves from the top rope inside the original cell (eg Orton had trouble with his splash in HC 13). With the new design that is fixed and they'll now be able to use the smaller ladders properly with top of ladder moves being used. In short the new cell gives the competitors more options in what they're going to do inside the cell (which may have bee the reason they used the top of the old cell a lot) thus making it more exciting. Also times have changed so that it's no longer accepted to have wrestlers taking bumps from the height of the original cell without some kind of strong padding to break their fall at ringside (eg Taker's fall at Armageddon 06). Night Bringer 19:14, Feb 17 2007 (GMT +10).

Hello. I am the person which instigated this discussion. I now realise that there are many benefits of the new "Hell in a Cell" Cell and that my previous quibbles were slightly flawed. I would now like to see WWE compete with TNA on certain weapons orientated matches, for example Money-in-the-Bank Ladder Match at Wrestlemania inside the Cell. Signed: Dxmember619 20/04/07
 * When we say "Sign your comments", we mean after your comment type four of these babies: ~ Anakinjmt 12:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The new cell is actually 40ft, the old one was 20ft and J.R or King stated at Unforgiven that it was twice as tall as the old design. It was made bigger for arial attacks, which is sort of a good thing, although i did prefer the tight constraints the old one had. Even if they still used the old cell there wouldnt be any more of the bumps from on top of the cell as WWE put a stop to them because too many of their wrestlers were becoming injured in matches like these, and again it did defeat the purpose of the Hell in a Cell. Even though the whole purpose of the cell was to keep the wrestlers in, it was obvious from the start that it had a roof for a reason, to make another place to fight on. This is clearly shown as the first four matches and, in all, over half of the mathes have made use of the roof as a place to fight on. Bm2 21:50, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Um, no. It's completely different from a steel cage match, as the WWE freqently reminds us. Keep it as a seperate article. Helltopay27 15:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Nonsense. They may say it's not a steel cage match but it is still a steel cage match.  There is no reason to have 2 articles on the same subject. L0b0t 15:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but Hell in a Cell is a long enough article already. We don't need it merged with Steel Cage and have two already large articles combine to form one rediculously huge article.


 * Please see WP:SIG.  That is a sign that a lot of the cruft should be trimmed. L0b0t 15:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * A Hell in a Cell match is completely different from a steel cage match. In a steel cage, the only way to win is to excape. In a HiaC, it's pinfall only. Merging the two makes little sense, and a Hell in a Cell is a big enough deal within the WWE to warrant its own page. Now, I'm all for Ladder matches and TLC matches having the same page, but not steel cage and HiaC matches.


 * What would be the point of having a seperate article for the steel cage match, then? Why wouldn't it just be put in the Professional Wrestling Matches article? I think if the steel cage match has its own article, than the Hell in a Cell article should, too. Helltopay27 22:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * KEEP. Hell is a Cell is not a steel cage match. A steel cage match doesn't have a cage with a roof. There is a difference. L0b0t, watch wrestling more often, and maybe you'll understand. --ChrisP2K5 06:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * For the record, there are four ways to win a steel cage match. 2 escapes and 2 commons. 1) Out the door 2) over the top 3) pinfall 4) submission. I say this in response to the saying that there's only one way to win RabidWolf::


 * Yes, normally, but Hell in a Cell does not have those stipulations in place. You can only win by pin or submission. If the action somehow makes its way outside the cage (which it hasn't done in quite too long), the rules are not applied as they would normally be. So there are TWO ways to win, not 4. --ChrisP2K5 17:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Different match. Different rules. Different structures. Different Articles. Simple Bm2 21:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

KEEP. Anyone who has seen a Hell in a Cell match knows it is not a cage match. Not only is it a kind of match that only the top performers get involved in (Hell in a Kennel notwithstanding) but there are a select few of them, and fewer people who have participated in them. And, because it is rare, and because it is (for lack of a better term) branded, the performers will do things to each other in the Cell that they'd never risk in a mere cage match. The difference is more than the roof and the floor. The difference is also the history of the Hell in a Cell matches, the expectations from the crowd, and the delivery of the performer. This contributor had the opportunity to see a Hell in a Cell match live, and some of the people in the crowd flew in from Japan, England, and Austrilia specifically for the match. They never would have done that for a cage match. And, I think that people looking for information on Hell in a Cell on Wikipedia wouldn't be satisfied with a parragraph or two packaged into another article. Thenodrin —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * KEEP. This is a different type of match that is rare of itself. To set things right there ARE 6 ways to win a match inside the Steel Cage and they are:


 * 1) Going over the top of the cage and landing on the floor,
 * 2) Going there the door,
 * 3) Pinfill,
 * 4) Submission, and or
 * 5) The Ref stops the match due to severe injury or the ref stops the match due to the wrestler has loss to much blood (and is able to continue), and or
 * 6) Time limit draw (RARE CASE).

Keep the article. Sundogs Wikia UserPage 20:33, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hiac6packchallenge.jpg
Image:Hiac6packchallenge.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:HIAC.jpg
Image:HIAC.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Reality Clarity...
Before I dive in and start editing like a fiend, does anyone else think that the "Background" section currently blurs the line between real-life and fictional (or, in this case, "kayfabe") events? Given that the entry deals with a style of gimmick match in pro wrestling in which the "legit" nature of some significant incidents is debated, should we not try to maintain as much clarity between the "legit" and the "kayfabe"? The bullet-pointed run-through of ways in which the cell has been breached currently seems to offer little distinction between the two, aside from the observation that one referee injury was "legit". Well, that's my first ever Wikipedia Talk entry... now, where's that tilde button...?

PedantKing 16:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Too much detail?
Does each match and its buildup really need to be gone into in such detail? It also 'blurs the line between real-life and fictional' as mentioned above. 81.145.240.52 20:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, anyone else think the "description" of the Undertaker/Batista match should be changed/removed? As has been said 1000 times, this place isn't a wrestling news site, if ya want that, go to WZ or something.Taker04 13:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Deletion?
Who deleted the match history for this? Someone please change it back. Mark handscombe 14:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Match History
Do you think a section should be added with a history with all the Hell in a Cell matches? a couple of them are mentioned in the article, but it may help to flesh the article outLynx Raven Raide 09:05, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Pics
we need some pictures that show some of the matches that happen or even the HiTC itself SocialistRevolution 23:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Survivor Series Match
I think the article for the SS HIAC is awful, it doesn't read professionally and sounds like it's being commentated. Plus, it has pretty much every move that happened. Don't suppose anyone can revert it back to the original text it had? 217.42.3.211 15:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The Armageddon 2005 match run run through has been deleted for some reason Mark handscombe (talk) 11:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
This is a redundant article to have, this is nothing more than a big cage (with "OMG!" a roof) around a ring. This match is like a Steel Cage and can be toned down to about a paragraph to discuss it's features in professional wrestling match types. The other things on this page are trivial and not needed, listing every Hell in a Cell match is like listing every Steel Cage match, as this is also a common match.-- S R X  14:49, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I support a merger, though I do think Foley/Taker should be mentioned when it is merged. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 19:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Gavyn. Merge, but mention Foley/Taker. – L A  X  15:13, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, because the Foley-Taker match is one of the most well-known. Thanks, Genius101 Wizard (talk) 19:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I propose this. Keep the article. Make it a list. Rename it List of Hell in a Cell matches, and also mention the Hell in a Cell match in the Professional Wrestling Match Types. Feed back  ☎ 17:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Lets just merge Hell in a Cell with the Professional wrestling match types and get it over with. I'm for it, in a way, I feel it is a important article but we don't even pay attention to the match articles anyway, if we did then Professional wrestling match types would be FL by now.-- Will C  21:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * KEEP::: As I said above, anyone who thinks that a Hell in a Cell match is nothing but an overhyped cage match has never seen (or at least never paid attention to) a Hell in a Cell match. The history of the match is very important to the fanbase. I have personally talked to fans who traveled to America from other countries specifically for the Hell in a Cell match. Combining the Hell in a Cell article with cage matches or with match types disrespects not only the performers who participate, but it also neglects to deliver adequate information to anyone looking for such information. Thenodrin —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge as per nom and I agree with LAX and Gavyn that Foley/Taker should be mentioned as it was the pivotal match and made it as famous as it is today. JakeDHS07  20:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The vote above should be discounted -- WP:PER. CJ Miller. (That's my name.Don't wear it out.) 23:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Keep It is a very well known type of match and deserves its own article. 207.69.140.23 (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is unique enough from normal cage matches to warrant its own article.  TJ   Spyke   15:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep If WarGames deserves it's own page, then so does Hell in a Cell. We should pay more attention to match types, anyway, they're a big part of the show nowadays. Lafraisne (talk) 18:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Keep, as this match has made history (Foley-Taker for those keeping score at home :), not just a cage with a roof (OMGWTFBBQ) slapped on. CJ Miller. (That's my name.Don't wear it out.) 23:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC) Keep, you dont see the Elimination Chamber merged into that article, do you? -- Harvey "Two-Face" Dent  (Muhaha!!) 16:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Per CJMiller SuperSilver901 (talk) 02:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

How about we create a Steel Cage page, or Enclosure-Based match page which can then feature Cage matches, HiaC, Elimination Chamber, WarGames, Thundercage &c and discuss them at greater length than they do on the match types page but also can reduce the amount of needless articles on what is essentially variants on the same concept. Tony2Times (talk) 16:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC) Keep--Degenerate-Y (talk) 19:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * KEEP. This is a different type of match that is rare of itself. To set things right there ARE 6 ways to win a match inside the Steel Cage and they are:


 * 1) Going over the top of the cage and landing on the floor,
 * 2) Going there the door,
 * 3) Pinfill,
 * 4) Submission, and or
 * 5) The Ref stops the match due to severe injury or the ref stops the match due to the wrestler has loss to much blood (and is able to continue), and or
 * 6) Time limit draw (RARE CASE).

Keep the article. Sundogs Wikia UserPage 20:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * - consensus to keep article.-- S R X  19:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Guys, this is not a Steel Cage, this is Hell in a Cell. It's nothing like a Steel Cage, other than it's made of steel, that's it. Hell in a Cell is a completely different monster. You can win the match by escaping the Steel Cage, if you escape Hell in a Cell, it only gets worse, because you climb to the top and there are only 3 ways down: through the cell structure, off the sides: or off the sides onto the Spanish announcers Tables (or onto a Flatbed truck). And if you can still get up, TOMBSTONE PILEDRIVER, 1. 2. 3. Ring The Bell. Hell in a Cell is a living breathing beast if you've ever heard Skillet's hit song Monster (which by the way was the theme to WWE Hell in a Cell (2009). The Steel Cage is dangerous yes, but it's more for keeping out people from interfering, Hell in a Cell was designed around the flaws the Steel Cage couldn't cover. And those of you who say Hell in a Cell isn't a deadly weapon or deadly match have never seen a Hell in a Cell match.--Nascarking (talk) 16:28, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Citation
Can someone please cite "Heartbreak and Triumph" by Shawn Michaels and Aaron Fiegenbaum for the outside interference part of the background section first paragraph. Thanks, Genius101 Wizard (talk) 19:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The Omni?
I think the first paragraph (referenced in the above section) needs to be fact checked. The NWA steel cage was never called "The Omni" - The Omni was an arena in Atlanta that many an NWA event took place in. In fact, there's an article on it here on Wikipedia. Stupid5pin (talk) 03:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

List of Hell in a Cell Matches
Does there need to be two lists? I tried to delete the second list, but don't know how. If anyonw knows, can you delete the second list? Thanks. Gibsonj338 (talk) 03:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

cena and orton on raw
I think it should be taken out of the table..it wasn't even a match set up... just a teaser that failed!!--Ruthless-paki (talk) 22:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The 2nd and 5th Matches
Where are the second and fifth Hell in a Cell matches? They need to be up there. The King Gemini (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

5th HiaC Missing from list
I think it was Mankind and Kane or something. I'd fix it, but I don't now how to revert and add and tamper with charts very well so I thought I'd just point this out instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.29.199 (talk) 07:11, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I just fixed it. I couldn't revert the entire thing to an earlier version because I didn't wan to get rid of all the new additions to the article so i did manually. How that edit was overlooked by most of the editors is something I'll never know. Azuran (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I like hell in a cell —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.217.150 (talk) 16:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)