Talk:Hellenic Army Other Ranks rank insignia

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There is some confusion between the comparative ranks of Reservists, Volunteers, and Professionals. The labels may need to be reviewed. Should Λοχίας (Sergeant) be Εθελοντής Λοχίας (Volunteer Sergeant)? And why are there two insignia representing Έφεδρος Δεκανέας (Reservist Corporal)? I believe the left-hand one should read Εθελοντής Δεκανέας (Volunteer Corporal).

Furthermore, I am not sure the insignia for Μόνιμος Λοχίας (Professional Sergeant) are correct. A Λοχίας graduate of the NCO Junior College (Σχολή Μονίμων Υπαξιωματικών = ΣΜΥ) typically wears two arcs, not one, over the two chevrons. What is the source of these images? 84.254.60.19 (talk) 18:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The images appear to be edited and simplified versions of these, straight from the Greek Army site: http://www.army.gr/multimedia/diakritika/tags-5.php EpiVictor (talk) 22:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Quite confusing article
There are a lot of inaccuracies, as some of the ranks showed are not correctly associated with their current usage. As correctly pointed, the rank insignia of the Professional NCOs should have two arcs, not one.

There should also be a specification that the background color in NCO insigna also indicates the army branch/corps e.g. Red is Infantry, Green is Cavalry/Armor, and Grey is Research/Informatics, and that colored insignia are only worn with high uniforms, not fatigues. Since enlisted personnel (except for Reserve Officers) don't get a battledress or high uniform, enlisted NCOs don't get the colored background insignia under no circumstances.

Volunteer non-college NCOs have chevrons and a "flaming pomegranate" with no arcs in their insigna, while enlisted NCOs have no pomegranates. There are several classes of volunteer NCOs and Privates BTW, and some of them have a line above their Chevrons. E.g. ΕΠ.ΟΠ. (Επαγγελματίες Οπλίτες, Professional Privates) and Ε.Μ.Θ. (Εθελοντές Μακράς Θητείας, Long Term Volunteers) have pomegranates, while the more recent Ο.Β.Α. (Οπλίτες Βραχείας Ανακατάταξης, Short Term Re-enlisting Privates) can only hold the rank of Υποδεκανέας and Δεκανέας, with an additional line, but no "flaming pomegranate".

There's also no mention of Probationary Reserve Officers (PROs), which aren't even listed on the Commissioned Officer ranks page. According to the SK20-1 rulebook, these officers are trained from enlisted volunteers, and are considered of equal rank but more junior than WO-1 Warrant Officers, although they are considered as in a "transient status" between the Warrant Officer and the highter 2nd Lieutenant rank. Their proper designation EpiVictor (talk) 22:08, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Overhauling
I updated the article with valid rank data and facts from |army.gr. I will also add clarifications for the various classes of NCOs actually existing in the Greek Army, and facts about the ranks. E.g. the rank of Υποδεκανέας is actually a honorary title and not a rank, and in practice it's not being awarded anymore, save for Ο.Β.Α. (Οπλίτες Βραχείας Ανακατάταξης, Short Term Re-enlisting Privates), to make them de-jure more senior than enlisted privates. Similarly, enlisted personnel are no longer elevated to the rank of Έφεδρος Λοχίας. EpiVictor (talk) 22:31, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks good! Might be even better if we had images of the insignia worn on camouflage fatigues. They can actually be found at the Hellenic Army official website ( http://www.army.gr/multimedia/diakritika/tags-6.php ) but I do not know how to upload the images. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.242.159 (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Warrant and Reserve officers
I added a whole wealth of info, both from the official rulebook and from recent personal experiences as a ΔΕΑ (Reserve Officer). The quantity and detail about ΔΕΑs perhaps warrants a further section in the article just about them and their candidate period ranks. EpiVictor (talk) 02:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, the institution of ΔΕΑ is a very interesting (as well as time-honored) one. It probably deserves its own page, complete with all the insignia. Also, I notice that the ΥΒ (Reserve NCO Candidate, now a temporary rank held for less than 2 weeks) appears in the hierarchy, but ΥΕΑ (Reserve Officer Candidate, a temporary rank still held for 16 weeks) does not. (Strictly speaking, ΥΕΑ is not one rank, but is divisible into six different ranks, Alpha, Beta, Beta Corporal, Beta Sergeant, Beta Master Sergeant, and Chief Beta Sergeant Major.) This is not just a failing of Wikipedia. A recent ΓΕΣ handout has the same omission. I wonder why. 79.107.237.238 (talk) 12:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Further thought: In the same vein, it would be great to have a list somewhere with the insignia of students at the military academies (both NCO academies like ΣΜΥ or ΣΤΥΑ and officer academies like Ευελπίδων, Ικάρων, Ναυτικών Δοκίμων and ΣΣΑΣ). Of course, the ranks held by candidates of these schools differ from the ones ranks presented in these pages, in the sense that they are outside the ordinary system of the active-duty military. This distinction should be emphasized, but all the same it would be of great interest to have this information. Very good work EpiVictor.79.107.237.238 (talk) 12:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)