Talk:Hellenic Religion

A Wikipedia page dedicated to the exclusive topic of Greeks practicing Hellenic religion is needed to avoid colonialistic narratives. KLEOPATROS7 (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The topic of contemporary Greek practice of Hellenic religion is covered at Hellenism (modern religion). Could you clarify how this page's topic differs from the topic of Hellenism (modern religion)? signed,Rosguill talk 21:38, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * There’s also Hellenic religion. Mccapra (talk) 22:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Good point; if this article ends up redirected, Hellenic religion should be the target, and readers can find where they want to go from there. signed,Rosguill talk 22:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I do not think it is appropriate to mix the religious activities, history and identity of Greeks and non-Greeks pagans together on the same page, they are different activities and do not reflect a collective unity. It leads to the misleading idea we are 'in the same boat' and can be talked about interchangeably. This is why a unique page is needed to cover the activities, history, ideas of the Greeks. KLEOPATROS7 (talk) 22:33, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand the objection, Hellenism (modern religion) has extensive discussion of modern Greek practitioners of Hellenic religion. If you think that the article should make a greater distinction between Greek and non-Greek practitioners of Hellenic religion, then you should identify some reliable sources that support this distinction and add content about it to Hellenism (modern religion). signed,Rosguill talk 22:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If you follow the social media discourse it will be evident that this is an ongoing issue. What exactly do you need, a Greek organization declaring they do not recognize non-Greek pagans in isolation from a Greek community as practicing Hellenism? Further, as with other religions, no one wikipedia page attempts to capture every single group. Why are the editors attempting to stop the split here and force everyone into the same page and into the same labeling? Why don't we go redirect Catholicism to Christianity and erase any attempt to my a page on Catholicism? KLEOPATROS7 (talk) 22:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * For better or for worse, social media discourse is not a suitable source for Wikipedia. The ideal source would be a peer reviewed academic paper analyzing modern Hellenic religion in all its nuance. Google Scholar is a good way to find such sources. However, newspaper articles discussing the controversy as a news topic (opinion pieces would not count) would be an acceptable substitute. As for Christianity, you'll find that there are many high quality sources that discuss the distinctions between Catholicism and other denominations in detail. signed,Rosguill talk 23:09, 15 July 2021 (UTC)


 * No I am sorry that is not going to work, that is the mentality of the colonialist to demand that there be an academic to "approve" what is going here. The hypothetical academic would cite social media to document the conflict. You are not engaging in good faith here. You are trying to silence the opposition. There is extremely minimal academic sources on this topic given that it is not a popular topic. KLEOPATROS7 (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Then I'm afraid you're going to need to find somewhere else to publish your perspectives. Wikipedia has a longstanding policy of privileging academic perspectives as the most reliable source of information. The shortcomings of this approach are well-documented at WP:SYSTEMICBIAS, but it remains the best of all possible poor solutions to the question of how we can verify the information we add to Wikipedia. You can read more about our sourcing policies at WP:V. Honestly, I think it is highly likely that you will be able to find an academic source that provides the coverage needed to make the changes you're advocating for, so I would encourage you not to give up. But insisting that we trust your word, "the discourse", or any other source of information that does not comply with our verification policy is a dead end. signed,Rosguill talk 23:21, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * To that last point, here are a few sources that may be helpful, . You would need to find several such sources to justify the creation of a separate article, but just one would be sufficient for introducing changes to the text at Hellenism (modern religion). signed,Rosguill talk 23:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Ok thank you KLEOPATROS7 (talk) 23:28, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

This seems like another bite of the cherry by the article creator after their editwarring with multiple editors at Hellenic Ethnic Religion. As previously pointed out the topic is well covered in Hellenism (modern religion). --John B123 (talk) 20:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC) Edit to add, I find your use of the term colonizers to describe those who disagree with you offensive. --John B123 (talk) 20:15, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go ahead and restore the redirect now, as I see Kleopatros7 has made changes at Hellenism (modern religion) related to their original concerns. Even in the event that enough sources are collected to justify the creation of a separate article, that would likely be at Hellenic Ethnic Religion, not here. signed,Rosguill talk 20:25, 16 July 2021 (UTC)